karaholic said: hi i loved this tactic and my strikers scored like crazy but this has stopped for a full season one of my top striker failed to score goals but the results werent bad. why is my striker failing to score goals like he did for me previous seasons?? Expand
The game is very complicated, there're hundred different factors that affect the result so it's very hard to say something, it cold be just luck/unluck
Gaksital said: When using the Long throw-ins, I frequently found that our throw-ins intercepted by the opposing defender and immediately exposed to the risk of counterattacks.
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch? Expand
ZaZ said: You are completely right. If it's the same for all sides, then it has no effect in the calculations. In normal gameplay, you usually have better of those stats than the opponent (with a good team), meaning you would even have an advantage. I was thinking only about those stats as "less mistakes per match", but it's the same for all sides. Expand
Btw, I often see people do the same mistake when they test tactics with FMRTE. They only maximize and freeze the morale and conditions of their players but that's a huge mistake because it gives a huge advantage and distorts the result.
If you test with FMRTE and maximize and freeze the conditions and morale then it should be done for all teams in the league and not only for your team, the way fm-arena does that.
ZaZ said: I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things: - Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often. - Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week. - Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season. - Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building. - Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway. Expand
As I said the above is true not only for the human teams in the testing league but also, for the AI teams. Having the morale and conditions maximized and frozen doesn't give the human controlled teams any advantage or disadvantage because the AI controlled teams, also, have the the morale and conditions maximized for their players. All the teams in the testing are put in equal conditions so the morale, conditions and players quality factors can be ignored because it's equal for every team so it's all about the quality of tactics.
I've downloaded a game save of one of recent tests and here's Barca team stats as you can see all players have 'Perfect' morale and 100% Conditions and it's the same for all teams in the testing league.
ZaZ said: It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions. Expand
I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.
Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.
In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent.
Belmorn said: Due to winning prizes in the last 2 seasons my reputation has shot up massively.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead. What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ? For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above. Expand
Don't change anything. It works great no matter what AI managers do against you.
DoubleR said: Would you guys say Pace and acceleration are still the most OP stats? Like is it 'safe' to just have my whole team focus on those 2 for individual training? (together with the player role so other stats increase too of course) Expand
You need to be very careful when add too much physical training, not every player will be happy with that, also, it might cause a high probability of injuries and tiredness.
From my experience it's quite difficult to improve physical attributes.
Btw, if you look at the table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ other attributes such as Agility, Balance Dribbling and Vision are also very important and they should not be ignored.
Asstem said: When you play without rotation it helps to pass the season without injuries. But players get "rst" Expand
On the screenshots you posted I see that the players don't have their morale and conditions at 100% which means something is wrong with the FMRTE freezing, also, players never get "rst" if FMRTE freezing is done properly.
Asstem said: agree. after 1st round all players get "rest". Results without rotation was bad Expand
That's why a testing without FMRTE makes no sense...
Also, what if some of the best players in your team or in the AI teams get a long term injury during a test? Something like that will greatly affect the result of the test.
ZaZ said: By the way, look what happened to my run with Leamington. I was in 5th, dreaming about a spot in the Euro Cup. However, my team started crumbling and won only one in the last ten matches. Does that mean the tactic stopped working? Absolutely not. My team is really weak, since no good player wants to join due to low reputation. It was predicted to be relegated. We are already overachieving by a lot, meaning either they started getting complacent for achieving their objective, or they cracked under pressure because of fighting for a spot in Euro Cup. In the end, I was incompetent in holding their spirits high and they don't have the right mentality for fighting there. Yet, I'm 8th place, better than last year when I finished 14th. I have high hopes for next year since my team is only getting stronger as time passes. Expand
Yup... and that's how the game works.
SI always will be tying to keep FM somehow realistic, which means when you play in one of the most challenging leagues in the game such as EPL and you manage a mid-table team or a bottom-table team then you can't expect to win the league title for granted even using the best tactic, of course, it might happen but the probability of it is very low.
I've been noticing that in EPL you start getting a really high chance on winning the league only when your team in the top 5-7 and I find that's how it should be if we want FM to be somehow realistic.
The purpose of this thread is to help beginner players make a basic analysis of their results and guide them in the right direction.
I've been noticing that almost all beginner players when they are unhappy about their results start to blame their tactics for that, they don't understand that the quality of their tactics is only one of the many factors(and not the biggest one) that determine the results. Here are some of the other factors:
- The quality of your players, this factor has an even bigger influence on the result than the quality of your tactic. Don't believe me? Just try using different tactics with such clubs as Barcelona, Man City, Liverpool, PSG and you'll see that with these clubs almost any tactic(even a poor one) gives you an opportunity of winning trophies. It's important to understand that even the best tactics don't guarantee winning trophies, it just helps you overachieving and to do better than your media prediction ( the quality of your players ) but that overachieving has its limits, for example, if you play in EPL ( the most challenging league in the world ) and your team has 10th prediction then you should not expect easily winning the title even using the best tactic in the game and finishing somewhere in the top 5 would a good result.
- The morale level of your players, this factor also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't know how to properly handle 'Team Meetings', 'Team Talks', 'Individual Conversations(Praise Player/Warn Player)' then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper handling of the 'Touchline Instructions' is another important factor which also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't handle the 'Touchline Instructions' properly then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper team rotation during the season also has a great impact on the results. You need to properly rotate your team during the season in order to keep all your players fit and fresh as possible. If you don't rotate your team and you use only your 11 best plyers to play the matches then they will get tired very fast and your results will be poor.
Another common mistake that many beginner players make is thinking that their results are poor when actually their results are OK. In order to avoid making this mistake I suggest always checking the media prediction table before the start of the season and always finishing the season before making any conclusions about your results.
IMPORTANT: You should always finish the season before making any conclusion! - making any conclusions before finishing the season is a big mistake!
Look at the picture below, it shows the EPL media prediction table, how things stand at the begging of the 1st season, the teams are order by the quality of their players:
Let's assume you picked Leeds(pred. 10th) and finished in the 9th place. Of course, such result isn't an outstanding result but still you did better than your media prediction so it can be consider as a positive result. If you used a more effective tactic and had more luck then you could finish in a higher place or even you could win the league but it's very important to understand that having the best tactic isn't the only what requires for winning in FM and there's no such tactic that gets you the EPL title with Leeds in the 1st season for granted and if there was such tactic then SI would fixed it immediately because it would made other important parts of the game irrelevant, for instance, why someone would want to get Messi or Ronaldo for his team if there's no any problem to win everything without such players in your team. I'm not saying that in FM it's impossible to win everything without Messi or Ronaldo in your team, I'm just saying that with such players in your team the probability of winning is much higher so having the best players in your team always will be giving benefits. So if you want to turn your club into an unstoppable force and become undefeatable then finding the best tactic won't be enough, it would also require bringing the best players into your club.
If you don't have time to play 3-5 seasons to build a strong team then I suggest using the 'Instant Result' to play some matches, it greatly speeds up the game processes.
I really hope this post will help beginner players to better understand the way the game works.
@babemocni1988, imagine... you pick West Ham, plug some cheating tactic and BOOM you've got 100pts at the end of the season.
Do you really think SI would allowed something like that?
If something like that was possible then what was the point in having such players as Messi or Ronaldo in your team? Or what was the point in trying to develop such players for your team? Or what was the point in becoming the richest club?
Many important areas in the game would be irrelevant in that case but SI spends a lot of its resources to develop those areas so they will never allow you to dominate the best leagues with mid-table clubs even using the most effective tactics.
Of course, you can get 100pts with West Ham but such result should be consider as a very lucky result and should not be expected and taken for granted.
babemocni1988 said: Sure nice explaned,so lets everybody play with Liverpool Barca and City and then maybe we dont need so lucky in every match Expand
I'm just saying that if you want to dominate the most challenging leagues in the game such as English Premier League, La Liga and some other leagues then your team must be as strong as Barca, Man City or Liverpool.
Do you think SI doesn't test things at all?
If it was possible to dominate English Premier League with West Ham using some cheating tactic then SI would fixed that immediately because in that case one of the most important part of the game was irrelevant, I'm talking about buying/developing the best players for your team.
You should never expect to dominate the best leagues in the with a mid table club even using the most effective tactics because something like that would be very unrealistic and SI will never allow that, of course, it's still possible to win those leagues with a mid table club or even a bottom table club but the probability of doing that is quite low.
i loved this tactic and my strikers scored like crazy but this has stopped for a full season one of my top striker failed to score goals but the results werent bad. why is my striker failing to score goals like he did for me previous seasons??
The game is very complicated, there're hundred different factors that affect the result so it's very hard to say something, it cold be just luck/unluck
I think it's exactly what I'm looking for! I'll replace my old ones with Phoenix's and test them again.
btw, there're few videos that show how it works in the thread I linked
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch?
I think you need to look at this thread - https://fm-arena.com/thread/1035-attacking-throw-ins-set-pieces-for-21-4-0-patch/
I think you need to read this - https://fm-arena.com/thread/826-information-regarding-the-way-we-pick-tactics-for-the-testing/
weird stuff, indeed.
I guess it's very similar to what that has been tested already
Similar Tested Tactics
Btw, I often see people do the same mistake when they test tactics with FMRTE. They only maximize and freeze the morale and conditions of their players but that's a huge mistake because it gives a huge advantage and distorts the result.
If you test with FMRTE and maximize and freeze the conditions and morale then it should be done for all teams in the league and not only for your team, the way fm-arena does that.
- Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often.
- Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week.
- Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season.
- Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building.
- Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway.
As I said the above is true not only for the human teams in the testing league but also, for the AI teams. Having the morale and conditions maximized and frozen doesn't give the human controlled teams any advantage or disadvantage because the AI controlled teams, also, have the the morale and conditions maximized for their players. All the teams in the testing are put in equal conditions so the morale, conditions and players quality factors can be ignored because it's equal for every team so it's all about the quality of tactics.
I've downloaded a game save of one of recent tests and here's Barca team stats as you can see all players have 'Perfect' morale and 100% Conditions and it's the same for all teams in the testing league.
I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.
Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.
In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead.
What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ?
For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above.
Don't change anything. It works great no matter what AI managers do against you.
Nice one
You need to be very careful when add too much physical training, not every player will be happy with that, also, it might cause a high probability of injuries and tiredness.
From my experience it's quite difficult to improve physical attributes.
Btw, if you look at the table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ other attributes such as Agility, Balance Dribbling and Vision are also very important and they should not be ignored.
On the screenshots you posted I see that the players don't have their morale and conditions at 100% which means something is wrong with the FMRTE freezing, also, players never get "rst" if FMRTE freezing is done properly.
I suggest checking the FMRTE freezing settings.
That's why a testing without FMRTE makes no sense...
Also, what if some of the best players in your team or in the AI teams get a long term injury during a test? Something like that will greatly affect the result of the test.
Hi,
Do you use FMRTE to freeze the conditions and morale?
Yup... and that's how the game works.
SI always will be tying to keep FM somehow realistic, which means when you play in one of the most challenging leagues in the game such as EPL and you manage a mid-table team or a bottom-table team then you can't expect to win the league title for granted even using the best tactic, of course, it might happen but the probability of it is very low.
I've been noticing that in EPL you start getting a really high chance on winning the league only when your team in the top 5-7 and I find that's how it should be if we want FM to be somehow realistic.
This thread is inspired by Rince's thread - https://fm-arena.com/thread/1074-mythbusters-the-ai-learns-your-tactic-tactics-only-work-for-one-season/
The purpose of this thread is to help beginner players make a basic analysis of their results and guide them in the right direction.
I've been noticing that almost all beginner players when they are unhappy about their results start to blame their tactics for that, they don't understand that the quality of their tactics is only one of the many factors(and not the biggest one) that determine the results. Here are some of the other factors:
- The quality of your players, this factor has an even bigger influence on the result than the quality of your tactic. Don't believe me? Just try using different tactics with such clubs as Barcelona, Man City, Liverpool, PSG and you'll see that with these clubs almost any tactic(even a poor one) gives you an opportunity of winning trophies. It's important to understand that even the best tactics don't guarantee winning trophies, it just helps you overachieving and to do better than your media prediction ( the quality of your players ) but that overachieving has its limits, for example, if you play in EPL ( the most challenging league in the world ) and your team has 10th prediction then you should not expect easily winning the title even using the best tactic in the game and finishing somewhere in the top 5 would a good result.
- The morale level of your players, this factor also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't know how to properly handle 'Team Meetings', 'Team Talks', 'Individual Conversations(Praise Player/Warn Player)' then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper handling of the 'Touchline Instructions' is another important factor which also has a significant impact on the results. If you don't handle the 'Touchline Instructions' properly then your results always will be worse than they could be.
- A proper team rotation during the season also has a great impact on the results. You need to properly rotate your team during the season in order to keep all your players fit and fresh as possible. If you don't rotate your team and you use only your 11 best plyers to play the matches then they will get tired very fast and your results will be poor.
Another common mistake that many beginner players make is thinking that their results are poor when actually their results are OK. In order to avoid making this mistake I suggest always checking the media prediction table before the start of the season and always finishing the season before making any conclusions about your results.
IMPORTANT: You should always finish the season before making any conclusion! - making any conclusions before finishing the season is a big mistake!
Look at the picture below, it shows the EPL media prediction table, how things stand at the begging of the 1st season, the teams are order by the quality of their players:
Let's assume you picked Leeds(pred. 10th) and finished in the 9th place. Of course, such result isn't an outstanding result but still you did better than your media prediction so it can be consider as a positive result. If you used a more effective tactic and had more luck then you could finish in a higher place or even you could win the league but it's very important to understand that having the best tactic isn't the only what requires for winning in FM and there's no such tactic that gets you the EPL title with Leeds in the 1st season for granted and if there was such tactic then SI would fixed it immediately because it would made other important parts of the game irrelevant, for instance, why someone would want to get Messi or Ronaldo for his team if there's no any problem to win everything without such players in your team. I'm not saying that in FM it's impossible to win everything without Messi or Ronaldo in your team, I'm just saying that with such players in your team the probability of winning is much higher so having the best players in your team always will be giving benefits. So if you want to turn your club into an unstoppable force and become undefeatable then finding the best tactic won't be enough, it would also require bringing the best players into your club.
If you don't have time to play 3-5 seasons to build a strong team then I suggest using the 'Instant Result' to play some matches, it greatly speeds up the game processes.
I really hope this post will help beginner players to better understand the way the game works.
Cheers.
Do you really think SI would allowed something like that?
If something like that was possible then what was the point in having such players as Messi or Ronaldo in your team? Or what was the point in trying to develop such players for your team? Or what was the point in becoming the richest club?
Many important areas in the game would be irrelevant in that case but SI spends a lot of its resources to develop those areas so they will never allow you to dominate the best leagues with mid-table clubs even using the most effective tactics.
Of course, you can get 100pts with West Ham but such result should be consider as a very lucky result and should not be expected and taken for granted.
I'm just saying that if you want to dominate the most challenging leagues in the game such as English Premier League, La Liga and some other leagues then your team must be as strong as Barca, Man City or Liverpool.
Do you think SI doesn't test things at all?
If it was possible to dominate English Premier League with West Ham using some cheating tactic then SI would fixed that immediately because in that case one of the most important part of the game was irrelevant, I'm talking about buying/developing the best players for your team.
You should never expect to dominate the best leagues in the with a mid table club even using the most effective tactics because something like that would be very unrealistic and SI will never allow that, of course, it's still possible to win those leagues with a mid table club or even a bottom table club but the probability of doing that is quite low.