Xavinwonderland said: I have been searching the forums for a clear answer on this but couldn't not find anything clear.
When a player gains attribute points the CA cost will depend on its position so increasing tackling for instance will be very expensive for a defender but pretty much free for a striker.
What happens if I have a striker that I retrain as a defender? Is the cost increase based on being a striker? A defender? An average of the 2?
Is it possible to min/max by keeping it natural as a striker and only accomplished as a defender so that the tackling cost is using the striker weight rather than the defender weights? Expand
The position training works really simple. If you train a player an additional position then it inevitably leads to decreasing of his attributes, of course, if his CA stays the same and doesn't increase because if it works differently and additional position doesn't cost anything then everyone would want to train their players as many positions as possible which would be imbalanced.
kireby said: What do you train guys usually? E.g. I have a forward retrained to SS with pace and acc 17. What should i train? Only attributes from that table or something else? Expand
Focusing the training on the most influencing attributes from the fm-arena table would be a good choice.
ZaZ said: In my opinion, the best part of this tactic is to have two DMs instead of one DM and one CM, meaning you have an easier time building a balanced squad. Expand
I think when it come to the difficulty of building a team for a tactic then Void tactic is the winner because for it you need having only 5 different positions instead of having 7-8 different positions as other tactics require. Also, it uses AMs, CMs, DMs and there're many players who can cover multiple positions at the same time like CM and DM or AM and CM so it makes building your team even more easier.
karaholic said: hi i loved this tactic and my strikers scored like crazy but this has stopped for a full season one of my top striker failed to score goals but the results werent bad. why is my striker failing to score goals like he did for me previous seasons?? Expand
The game is very complicated, there're hundred different factors that affect the result so it's very hard to say something, it cold be just luck/unluck
Gaksital said: When using the Long throw-ins, I frequently found that our throw-ins intercepted by the opposing defender and immediately exposed to the risk of counterattacks.
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch? Expand
ZaZ said: You are completely right. If it's the same for all sides, then it has no effect in the calculations. In normal gameplay, you usually have better of those stats than the opponent (with a good team), meaning you would even have an advantage. I was thinking only about those stats as "less mistakes per match", but it's the same for all sides. Expand
Btw, I often see people do the same mistake when they test tactics with FMRTE. They only maximize and freeze the morale and conditions of their players but that's a huge mistake because it gives a huge advantage and distorts the result.
If you test with FMRTE and maximize and freeze the conditions and morale then it should be done for all teams in the league and not only for your team, the way fm-arena does that.
ZaZ said: I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things: - Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often. - Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week. - Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season. - Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building. - Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway. Expand
As I said the above is true not only for the human teams in the testing league but also, for the AI teams. Having the morale and conditions maximized and frozen doesn't give the human controlled teams any advantage or disadvantage because the AI controlled teams, also, have the the morale and conditions maximized for their players. All the teams in the testing are put in equal conditions so the morale, conditions and players quality factors can be ignored because it's equal for every team so it's all about the quality of tactics.
I've downloaded a game save of one of recent tests and here's Barca team stats as you can see all players have 'Perfect' morale and 100% Conditions and it's the same for all teams in the testing league.
ZaZ said: It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions. Expand
I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.
Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.
In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent.
Belmorn said: Due to winning prizes in the last 2 seasons my reputation has shot up massively.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead. What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ? For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above. Expand
Don't change anything. It works great no matter what AI managers do against you.
DoubleR said: Would you guys say Pace and acceleration are still the most OP stats? Like is it 'safe' to just have my whole team focus on those 2 for individual training? (together with the player role so other stats increase too of course) Expand
You need to be very careful when add too much physical training, not every player will be happy with that, also, it might cause a high probability of injuries and tiredness.
From my experience it's quite difficult to improve physical attributes.
Btw, if you look at the table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ other attributes such as Agility, Balance Dribbling and Vision are also very important and they should not be ignored.
Asstem said: When you play without rotation it helps to pass the season without injuries. But players get "rst" Expand
On the screenshots you posted I see that the players don't have their morale and conditions at 100% which means something is wrong with the FMRTE freezing, also, players never get "rst" if FMRTE freezing is done properly.
Asstem said: agree. after 1st round all players get "rest". Results without rotation was bad Expand
That's why a testing without FMRTE makes no sense...
Also, what if some of the best players in your team or in the AI teams get a long term injury during a test? Something like that will greatly affect the result of the test.
When a player gains attribute points the CA cost will depend on its position so increasing tackling for instance will be very expensive for a defender but pretty much free for a striker.
What happens if I have a striker that I retrain as a defender? Is the cost increase based on being a striker? A defender? An average of the 2?
Is it possible to min/max by keeping it natural as a striker and only accomplished as a defender so that the tackling cost is using the striker weight rather than the defender weights?
The position training works really simple. If you train a player an additional position then it inevitably leads to decreasing of his attributes, of course, if his CA stays the same and doesn't increase because if it works differently and additional position doesn't cost anything then everyone would want to train their players as many positions as possible which would be imbalanced.
Focusing the training on the most influencing attributes from the fm-arena table would be a good choice.
I think when it come to the difficulty of building a team for a tactic then Void tactic is the winner because for it you need having only 5 different positions instead of having 7-8 different positions as other tactics require. Also, it uses AMs, CMs, DMs and there're many players who can cover multiple positions at the same time like CM and DM or AM and CM so it makes building your team even more easier.
i loved this tactic and my strikers scored like crazy but this has stopped for a full season one of my top striker failed to score goals but the results werent bad. why is my striker failing to score goals like he did for me previous seasons??
The game is very complicated, there're hundred different factors that affect the result so it's very hard to say something, it cold be just luck/unluck
I think it's exactly what I'm looking for! I'll replace my old ones with Phoenix's and test them again.
btw, there're few videos that show how it works in the thread I linked
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch?
I think you need to look at this thread - https://fm-arena.com/thread/1035-attacking-throw-ins-set-pieces-for-21-4-0-patch/
I think you need to read this - https://fm-arena.com/thread/826-information-regarding-the-way-we-pick-tactics-for-the-testing/
weird stuff, indeed.
I guess it's very similar to what that has been tested already
Similar Tested Tactics
Btw, I often see people do the same mistake when they test tactics with FMRTE. They only maximize and freeze the morale and conditions of their players but that's a huge mistake because it gives a huge advantage and distorts the result.
If you test with FMRTE and maximize and freeze the conditions and morale then it should be done for all teams in the league and not only for your team, the way fm-arena does that.
- Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often.
- Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week.
- Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season.
- Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building.
- Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway.
As I said the above is true not only for the human teams in the testing league but also, for the AI teams. Having the morale and conditions maximized and frozen doesn't give the human controlled teams any advantage or disadvantage because the AI controlled teams, also, have the the morale and conditions maximized for their players. All the teams in the testing are put in equal conditions so the morale, conditions and players quality factors can be ignored because it's equal for every team so it's all about the quality of tactics.
I've downloaded a game save of one of recent tests and here's Barca team stats as you can see all players have 'Perfect' morale and 100% Conditions and it's the same for all teams in the testing league.
I don't think 'ideal' is an appropriate word to describe the conditions in the testing. I'd say 'equal' and 'consistent' are more appropriate words to describe the conditions in the testing.
Yes, the players have their morale and conditions maximized and frozen but that's true not only for the human controlled teams in the testing league but that's true, also, for the AI teams in the testing league. All teams in the testing league have players with the same level of the morale and conditions and that doesn't change from match to match so the morale and condition factors are eliminated from the calculation of the match result.
In the testing league you don't win matches due having better morale or better condition or better players, it's all about having a better tactic and that's why testing tactics that way is significantly more accurate than testing during a normal gameplay where you can have better players, higher morale and better conditions than your opponent.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead.
What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ?
For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above.
Don't change anything. It works great no matter what AI managers do against you.
Nice one
You need to be very careful when add too much physical training, not every player will be happy with that, also, it might cause a high probability of injuries and tiredness.
From my experience it's quite difficult to improve physical attributes.
Btw, if you look at the table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ other attributes such as Agility, Balance Dribbling and Vision are also very important and they should not be ignored.
On the screenshots you posted I see that the players don't have their morale and conditions at 100% which means something is wrong with the FMRTE freezing, also, players never get "rst" if FMRTE freezing is done properly.
I suggest checking the FMRTE freezing settings.
That's why a testing without FMRTE makes no sense...
Also, what if some of the best players in your team or in the AI teams get a long term injury during a test? Something like that will greatly affect the result of the test.
Hi,
Do you use FMRTE to freeze the conditions and morale?