bo said: @ZaZ Thank you my friend, first season used zaz-fire and helped QPR promoted to the EPL, now is the 4th season, used this tactic and as result, we got a 4th position on the table, you and me are making QPR great again ^_^ Expand
Thank you for testing, and congratulations for the good results!
saitjerome said: is this possible? I mean tactics are tested in 2.8k matches to find the best but this guy said "best tactic so far". Isn't the best tactic is who gets most points on the table? Just curious Expand
A tactic with 42 points is not bad, it's still above average. He probably tested, and it went really well for him. We see it all the time, people complimenting tactics not on top of the table and saying they gave them the best results so far. It motivates me to get a better version of this tactic in the near future.
Sane said: Why are you waiting for the engine patch so much? I saw somewhere that SI said they will update the engine only in the Christmas patch) Expand
Well, when next patch comes, I will have to re-run all tests, so I'm not in a hurry, just taking it slow. It's not like I'm not testing, it's just that I am trying different paths from those top tactics, and I didn't get much luck yet.
Sane said: This is interesting, I think people have not yet found the perfect instructions for reliable defense, which is why such low results of tactics. It can be combinations like high pressing, higher d-line, what kind of trap and something related to crosses. What do you think? Expand
I left the most promising things to test again after the patch. It might change a lot, so no need to rush before that. I have just a list of what is good, what is bad and what needs more testing.
tom100000000000 said: Sounds good, looking forward to it. With a good creative libero working and a solid back 3, I’d like to try something like volantes in the middle running up and down, maybe on support. I would guess two DM roles would be too defensive with 3 centerbacks, but not sure Expand
Yeah, I will still test what is the best duo. For single DM, it seems like RPM, DM-De and DM-Su give me the best results for different shapes.
Falbravv said: Finally, if we want to know that, we need to test attributes with minus ratings for line of players... i mean heading and jumping reach for defenders, finishing for strikers etc Expand
That would basically multiply the attributes to test by at least 7 or 8 (GK, DC, WB, DM, CM, AM, W and ST). And that's ignoring roles. I mean, not impossible, but still not something to be expected, unless there are no more tactics to test.
Falbravv said: With the position preference in GS you can have an easy view for your squad, bu i'm ok with your reflexion. However, when i see all this "important atributes" i'm asking a question, is there real change between positions in all this atributes ? I mean, for a defender, is it only important to focus on Pace and Acc, like a Striker... Maybe ! Expand
There are some attributes that are only important to one or another position, so they are very hard to measure in tests that consider the entire team. For example, it's pretty obvious that Jumping Reach affects way more the performance of central defenders than wingers. Stamina and Work Rate should also affect more the players that are more involved in the match, like flank players and midfielders, and Finishing has more impact on strikers. It's pretty obvious, but it's not easy to measure.
Zippo said: For example, 'Decisions' attribute is very expensive for every position and it costs almost the same as 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes but 'Decisions' attribute almost doesn't have any significant impact on the result unlike the 'Acceleration' or 'Pace' attributes, which have a great impact on the result. Expand
In other words, low Decisions is a good step to get a good player. Determination also seems to have some impact, and since it's a free attribute (like Natural Fitness, Aggression and Flair), should also have a good value.
tom100000000000 said: I would love to use a Libero but I've never managed to make a decent tactic with one. What considerations did you have to get it to work?
Also given Libero and RPM are both playmakers don't they tread on each others toes a bit creatively? Expand
Libero usually works better than a third central defender in my tests. They step up to the DM position and allow the DMs to get further forward without leaving spaces. I agree with you that the middle is too busy with them and two central midfielders, but I was just setting this up as a benchmark to develop from there. Next version will either change the midfield to two DMs plus SS (3412), or use two DMs and change to a single AF with two IFs by the sides (343).
MarcoL said: Since a couple of years I appreciate and enjoy your tactics. It will be the same with this one... Expand
Thank you! This was just a first draft, I will try to improve all versions more after next patch. (P.S.: Right now I wanted to see tactics with one DM, since 2DM seems better.)
Earth is a high intensity defensive tactic with three defenders. For tips and extra information, check the Fire thread.
Earth 4.0 Testing a few different shapes to see which direction I should take with this tactic.
Earth 3.1 Crossing to near post to increase goal opportunities. Wingback set to FB-At to participate more in the offensive actions. Defensive midfielder set to Vol-At to increase threat. (I'm keeping wingback as DL/R because they have higher availability in the game.)
Earth 3.0 Tried to keep instructions lean, and check if play by the flanks work well when team has only one player in the flanks. There is also one version with wingback as DR/L, because it is easier to find players in that position, which means you can use players with better attributes.
Earth 2.6 WB IWB -> WB in the minimalistic approach. My goal is to check if IWB has anti-synergy with two DMs, or with wingers that run wide with the ball. I believe it's the later, but I need to check in different formations to confirm.
BadA said: I know this thread hasn't been active for a while, but I just started playing and I am soaking in the information. @ZaZ I understand your basic training concept and have made the adjustments that you and EBSM suggest (to schedules and days off based on condition), but I have a couple of questions.
1) I'm definitely seeing more "Overall Risk of Injury: High". Should I ignore this? 2) Does the quality of the medical staff impact this? If yes, is there anything I can do besides hire better physios?
Thanks! Expand
If you use the auto-rest, then you should have less injuries than normal, because most injuries from training happen with tired players (which then will skip training and avoid those injuries). About match injuries, I don't think there is a noticeable increase.
Falbravv said: I think Water is the most solid tactic of yours. The foundation are good, maybe it's possible to improve it, but i really think for a standard team it's a must have.
See you soon with improvements Expand
It's definitely possible to improve. Just a small change in instructions would bring it over 50 points mark, but I don't like to brute force every single change here in FM-Arena. I will submit once I have a good set of changes to add.
5 Libertadores Cup (the Champions League from South America) 5 Brazilian League (national) 4 Brazil Cup (National Cup) 96 points in one season (30 W) Undefeated in one season 106 goals in one season 62 Goals in one season with my striker (Carlos Vinicius) 58 games without a lose 24 wons in a roll Expand
Thank you for testing! I'm currently trying to improve it, so hopefully I will get something good before next patch.
Until there are more tests about it, it's Quickness for everyone, and Reflexes for goalkeepers.
Thank you for testing, and congratulations for the good results!
A tactic with 42 points is not bad, it's still above average. He probably tested, and it went really well for him. We see it all the time, people complimenting tactics not on top of the table and saying they gave them the best results so far. It motivates me to get a better version of this tactic in the near future.
Good that it works for you! Still a lot to improve, though. =)
Well, when next patch comes, I will have to re-run all tests, so I'm not in a hurry, just taking it slow. It's not like I'm not testing, it's just that I am trying different paths from those top tactics, and I didn't get much luck yet.
I left the most promising things to test again after the patch. It might change a lot, so no need to rush before that. I have just a list of what is good, what is bad and what needs more testing.
Yeah, I will still test what is the best duo. For single DM, it seems like RPM, DM-De and DM-Su give me the best results for different shapes.
Yes, and there was no statistical difference between. Actually, invite crosses was slightly better in some shapes, so I left to test again later.
That would basically multiply the attributes to test by at least 7 or 8 (GK, DC, WB, DM, CM, AM, W and ST). And that's ignoring roles. I mean, not impossible, but still not something to be expected, unless there are no more tactics to test.
However, when i see all this "important atributes" i'm asking a question, is there real change between positions in all this atributes ? I mean, for a defender, is it only important to focus on Pace and Acc, like a Striker... Maybe !
There are some attributes that are only important to one or another position, so they are very hard to measure in tests that consider the entire team. For example, it's pretty obvious that Jumping Reach affects way more the performance of central defenders than wingers. Stamina and Work Rate should also affect more the players that are more involved in the match, like flank players and midfielders, and Finishing has more impact on strikers. It's pretty obvious, but it's not easy to measure.
In other words, low Decisions is a good step to get a good player. Determination also seems to have some impact, and since it's a free attribute (like Natural Fitness, Aggression and Flair), should also have a good value.
Also given Libero and RPM are both playmakers don't they tread on each others toes a bit creatively?
Libero usually works better than a third central defender in my tests. They step up to the DM position and allow the DMs to get further forward without leaving spaces. I agree with you that the middle is too busy with them and two central midfielders, but I was just setting this up as a benchmark to develop from there. Next version will either change the midfield to two DMs plus SS (3412), or use two DMs and change to a single AF with two IFs by the sides (343).
I released Earth and Wind 2.0 recently. They weren't that great but gave me some good data to work with.
You can still filter by position, but still not ideal.
Thank you! This was just a first draft, I will try to improve all versions more after next patch. (P.S.: Right now I wanted to see tactics with one DM, since 2DM seems better.)
I believe it will be tested, but I'm not the one to decide that.
Earth 4.0
Testing a few different shapes to see which direction I should take with this tactic.
Earth 3.1
Crossing to near post to increase goal opportunities. Wingback set to FB-At to participate more in the offensive actions. Defensive midfielder set to Vol-At to increase threat. (I'm keeping wingback as DL/R because they have higher availability in the game.)
Earth 3.0
Tried to keep instructions lean, and check if play by the flanks work well when team has only one player in the flanks. There is also one version with wingback as DR/L, because it is easier to find players in that position, which means you can use players with better attributes.
Earth 2.6 WB
IWB -> WB in the minimalistic approach. My goal is to check if IWB has anti-synergy with two DMs, or with wingers that run wide with the ball. I believe it's the later, but I need to check in different formations to confirm.
Earth 2.0 3ST
Changelog Earth 2.5
Same instructions as Fire 2.5.
Earth 2.0 DW
Earth 1.0
Earth 2.0
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
1) I'm definitely seeing more "Overall Risk of Injury: High". Should I ignore this?
2) Does the quality of the medical staff impact this? If yes, is there anything I can do besides hire better physios?
Thanks!
If you use the auto-rest, then you should have less injuries than normal, because most injuries from training happen with tired players (which then will skip training and avoid those injuries). About match injuries, I don't think there is a noticeable increase.
See you soon with improvements
It's definitely possible to improve. Just a small change in instructions would bring it over 50 points mark, but I don't like to brute force every single change here in FM-Arena. I will submit once I have a good set of changes to add.
5 Libertadores Cup (the Champions League from South America)
5 Brazilian League (national)
4 Brazil Cup (National Cup)
96 points in one season (30 W)
Undefeated in one season
106 goals in one season
62 Goals in one season with my striker (Carlos Vinicius)
58 games without a lose
24 wons in a roll
Thank you for testing! I'm currently trying to improve it, so hopefully I will get something good before next patch.