Zvo92 said: Thank you for answer. Tactics are great, but I have a lot of good midfielders in my save. Do you have any advice so that I can have another player in a middle, it doesn't have to be DLP? Expand
You can try this tactic. It is very good, and uses two central midfielders.
keithb said: no worries zaz. I do try to rotate my team by playing players who are peak condition and try not to start players who are tired, unless it is my best players in big games. Do you think there is any benefit to that? Obviously their condition in the game should decrease slower and it prevents the tired players from becoming fatigued. Expand
Fatigue still affects performance when it reaches the "Rst" icon level, so rotating is still needed. Condition also has effect on performance, so if you have two similar players, one at 100% and another at 90% condition, then the 100% will perform better.
ZaZ said: It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training. Expand
After some more testing, I believe the effect of fatigue on performance was just statistical noise. Sorry if anyone was mislead by that. I am still doing more tests to confirm other things with fatigue.
Standard metric is pace and acceleration, with dribbling and jumping reach as tie breakers. Other attributes are cool, but I would rather pay less for a player with very high value on those attributes, than spend ten times the price for someone balanced across all attributes.
Got requested to try and simulate the style of Abel Ferreira, one of the most successful managers from South America at the moment, for Palmeiras. Right winger is more of a Defensive Winger, but I changed to Inverted Winger to keep the ability to remove "tackle harder", without losing much performance. Their goalkeeper also uses "throw it long" instead, but that is more of a trait from Weverton than a tactical instruction. I got a bit of reference from this tactic.
Can I just say, totally off topic, that this post is in the top half a dozen viewed posts of all time on FM Arena with over 130k views, and the highest of any non tactic post on the site. So clearly a subject that is important to the FM Community.
Out of interest, the top 2 by a massive margin, are both from the great @ZaZ with ZaZ Blue 4.0 in FM22 tactics with over 630k views, and ZaZ Blue 3.0 in FM21 tactics with just under 580K views. In third is Phoenix v5.0 in FM21 tactics with over 230k views. Expand
That is actually nice to know! That means people need you for positional filters in FM24.
GabBau said: Hello. I apologize in advance for my English.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you Expand
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Any tactic from the hall of fame will allow you to overachieve, so it is a matter of what type of tactics you like the most. In my opinion, this one from @sponsorkindest is the best for squad management.
mimmuscatania said: I was hoping for it too but I think he won't be there for 23 I too had gotten used to his tactics in fact I went back to fm 22 Expand
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
NandaldiaN said: @ZaZ im using your "rest" recomendation and your training routine, its supposed to be used since pre-season right? im getting some long duration injuries (can be rng), fatigue metrics seems fine. Any advice? Expand
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
Gracolas said: I know im going to get a lot of hate here, but: gaming community is so toxic at the moment.. if companies put the effort to release updates every now and then, they get hated because it takes too long, if they dont release any update they also get hate because they dont care about the community, if they go on a weekly update system, they also get hate because they launched a unfinished product..
You guys are never happy Expand
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.
Floppyaams said: Amazing find. Now the problem is, how do we maintain our players' fatigue around that level. Especially in busy leagues such as the EPL. Expand
Floppyaams said: his point was that low fatigue is superior to fresh fatigue. So in theory, its better to have players conditioned rather than being completely fresh. Expand
It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
Lapidus said: I just want to stress once more that the "Match Expertise" level not only depends on "playing matches" but it also depends on "Training".
"No Training/Resting" = rapid declining of "Match Expertise" which might be a very negative thing.
Players by training not only improves their attributes but also build/keep their "Match Expertise" level.
When a player often "resting" then his "Match Expertise" drop much faster and even his CA might drop which to decreasing attributes.
So I'm trying to say that you need to very careful with "resting" thing. Yes, it might decrease "fatigue" but for what cost? Is it worth the cost? Expand
I am currently investigating the effects of fatigue, match sharpness, and condition, on performance, so I will have more to say once I have results here. That will set a good basis for the training schedule I will create, because it is good to know how much you gain while training, resting, or playing, for each of those.
Do you have any advice so that I can have another player in a middle, it doesn't have to be DLP?
You can try this tactic. It is very good, and uses two central midfielders.
Fatigue still affects performance when it reaches the "Rst" icon level, so rotating is still needed. Condition also has effect on performance, so if you have two similar players, one at 100% and another at 90% condition, then the 100% will perform better.
Would that be good?
And can you post a downloadable training sheet?
Thank you
DLP would reduce performance, but you can do it if you prefer.
About the training sheet, I don't have FM22 installed anymore. What I am currently using is the one below, for FM24.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
After some more testing, I believe the effect of fatigue on performance was just statistical noise. Sorry if anyone was mislead by that. I am still doing more tests to confirm other things with fatigue.
Can I just say, totally off topic, that this post is in the top half a dozen viewed posts of all time on FM Arena with over 130k views, and the highest of any non tactic post on the site. So clearly a subject that is important to the FM Community.
Out of interest, the top 2 by a massive margin, are both from the great @ZaZ with ZaZ Blue 4.0 in FM22 tactics with over 630k views, and ZaZ Blue 3.0 in FM21 tactics with just under 580K views. In third is Phoenix v5.0 in FM21 tactics with over 230k views.
That is actually nice to know! That means people need you for positional filters in FM24.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Unfortunately, there is no tactic that wins every time, unless the match engine is heavily biased towards some set of roles and instructions.
Thanks! It was almost a year ago, and she is fully recovered.
About the tactic, it is good, but there are better ones in the table.
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
You guys are never happy
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.
That is what I will try to find out. =)
It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
"No Training/Resting" = rapid declining of "Match Expertise" which might be a very negative thing.
Players by training not only improves their attributes but also build/keep their "Match Expertise" level.
When a player often "resting" then his "Match Expertise" drop much faster and even his CA might drop which to decreasing attributes.
So I'm trying to say that you need to very careful with "resting" thing. Yes, it might decrease "fatigue" but for what cost? Is it worth the cost?
I am currently investigating the effects of fatigue, match sharpness, and condition, on performance, so I will have more to say once I have results here. That will set a good basis for the training schedule I will create, because it is good to know how much you gain while training, resting, or playing, for each of those.