Itsyaboy420 said: some people do be sensitive, alright then I'll make my statement, stop it with the balanced method and similar shape, get creative people. try making different shapes and method works. if anybody is hurt by this comment then I am truly very sorry. Expand
Why are you so fixated on the mentality? What matters is how the tactic plays, not the overall team mentality. We have very defensive tactics and very offensive tactics without using Attacking or Defending mentality. Also, it's not like other mentalities are not being tested, they are just not scoring enough to be at the top.
I quoted wrong, sorry. I was actually answering someone asking people to test other mentalities, but I guess I clicked wrong somewhere (it wasn't even this comment section).
The Beast said: Make your own tactic, no one is forcing you to read or download any tactic from a tactician. Don't go into bitchboy mode and complain when you're not putting up any tactics Expand
People are testing other mentalities, they are just not getting good rates, so they don't appear at the top.
Milakus said: It could be the 4.2 hit the highest RNG. I think it can be as high as 3 points. Expand
There is a good chance of that too. I will keep working on Water before I can play again the career on weekend, and I think it works better without shorter passing and with wide IF. However, after testing a bit more, I think Counter-Press gives some interesting moves in game that match what I am looking for. I also want to play without Roll It Out, because I want faster counter attacks. I hope things work well on that direction.
Keep in mind that it is possible that overlap is just better. I am exploring the other road because I think it matches more what I'm trying to accomplish on the field, and I believe it has potential to good results. However, my beliefs are worth nothing if tests prove me wrong.
keithb said: What about distribute quickly? I have removed it and find it better
No 'run at defence'? Expand
Players already have dibble more, so no need for run at defense. That gives me more freedom to tweak them individually on testing. About distribute quickly, this patch is pretty counter-attack oriented, so the faster you get back to the game, the better.
Sane said: Perhaps the standard pass was affected instead of the short pass.
And why do you always refuse counter-press? Expand
Counter-press doesn't make much of a difference, so no reason to add it. About passing, I have also tried shorter and it usually is worse for me. I also don't see much reason to test what has already been tested extensively, which is why I am trying a route with less overlap.
P.S.: I will add a version with counter-press and shorter passing to see how it goes.
Milakus said: Why do you consider overlaps as a bad thing? Expand
Not necessarily bad, but I would like IFs to get closer to the area through the flanks instead of moving to the mid too early. That's the area where most of the interceptions happen.
I seriously can't identify why it's not working at least in the level of 4.2. It gets better results with IF wide instead of neutral or narrow. Is the Roll It Out making such a difference?
I think that is more related to training than players themselves. If you check the standard training sessions, you will see too much focus on technical attributes, and too little focus on physical. I also believe they only do individual focus for Quickness on very slow players, and that makes players fill their CA with other attributes instead of speed.
IF wider to reduce overlaps, and removed roll it to avoid situations like the one below. It should also allow goalkeepers to use their attributes to start counter-attacks more efficiently, using kicks or throws.
Some people have asked to try an attack mentality tactic, so here it is. I had to add shorter passing for it to work well, because attack mentality makes football more direct. It is based on Water 4.2.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
keithb said: Im doing a great save with SpVgg Bayreuth starting in Bundesliga3 and its been my best save in a long, long time. I do use downloaded tactics and fmscout though. I dont mind the tactics so much but I should try to switch over to not using fm scout. Back-to-back promotions and mid table in first Bundesliga 1 season. Get hammered in some games, but the late winners and comebacks are so enjoyable. RNG seems to have leveled out too, now im a better/higher rep side. Expand
Glad to hear that! I hope you lift the trophy next year.
I don't see much problem on people using FM Scout, I just think it changes how you experience the game. When you use the tool, it becomes more focused in the long run, since you hire players thinking about their potential. When you don't use it, then it becomes more short run, thinking about their current attributes, and you get more attached to players. Both are valid ways of playing, and some people prefer one style more than the other.
kvasir said: Seems like you're doing great. Excited about the rest.
Do you ever change the team mentality late in the game? For example: you were leading City by 2 goals in minute 80 - in this situation could it be beneficial to change your team's mentality from "balanced" to "very defensive"? In theory, they should try less risky balls, translating in less passes being intercepted and thus less chances for the opposition.
I'm yet to play FM 23, but I'm doing this in FM 22 with your ZaZ - Green. If I'm up by 1 goal in minute 85, I just go Very Defensive (from Positive) and set time wasting to the maximum (from none).
Wonder what you think. Expand
No, I don't change mentality. I tried already other mentalities, but they seem to concede more (or at least as much) than balanced. Instead, when I have a good lead, I switch to Light Water. In some matches, I also switch the sides of wingbacks and inside forwards to give them match experience, because I like them to be good at both sides for versatility (in fact, all my wingbacks and inside forwards are training for the opposite side, and not the side they play in).
About Green very defensive, I'm not sure if it brings much benefit, since I didn't test it. The tactic was already solid enough in the back to me.
Ten more matches gone, and things have been a rollercoaster. First I got several victories in a row, including against teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City. Then I entered a bad spell with five matches without a victory. Usually those spells last around five games, so I hope my team recovers very soon.
A few notable matches are below. - Victory against Chelsea at home with only 32% of possession. I think goals are way more important than possession, but I know some people disagree. - Victory against Leicester at their home. I picked this one because if you win bigger sides by two or more goals, you need to be sure to tell your team to not get overconfident. - Victory against Arsenal at their home. - A draw against Aston Vila, in which we were winning until 94 minutes, then my goalkeeper passed the ball to their attacker when there was no danger. - Epic victory against Manchester City at our home. I will comment about this match below.
In this match against City, they were winning at half time. Some people like to ask me what to do in this kind of situation, so I picked this match to explain what I usually do and took some screenshots.
The first thing to do is to motivate your players with team talk. Usually, I like to let the players know how disappointed I am, so they understand they need to put more effort in the second half.
Second thing to do is to make the right subs. In this case, I removed the player with yellow card and nervous, as well as the lowest rates of the match. For their places, I picked the two motivated players with perfect morale, and the option that was not very happy with his playing time (have to think about the rest of the season). After that, I told them individually that I have faith on them.
Finally, I used shouts whenever available to give that last push. My rules are simple: - Encourage if not winning (drawing or losing). - No pressure if winning on the edge against stronger team. - Praise if winning for more than 10 minutes. - Berate if losing by large margin (two or more) for more than 10 minutes.
Those steps don't guarantee that you will comeback, but it make your team play better than during first half, which increases your chances of winning. Remember to tell they did a good job if they manage to comeback!
Other interesting things that happened during those matches were a proposal for a friendly tournament, paying me 110k euros, which I promptly accepted. It doesn't matter if your players are doing well or not, you can always play with youth team if needed. I also like to add friendly matches for the U21 one day after matches from main team, so I can give match fitness to players that didn't participate in the match day.
Since my form was good and I got some money, I decided to upgrade training facilities and youth facilities. That doesn't contribute to the goal of winning the UCL in three years, but I like the idea of leaving the club in a better situation than I received, because success is not guaranteed.
I guess that's it for now. Let me know your thoughts and suggestions! I will probably finish this first season next weekend. For anyone interested in checking players or teams on this run, here is the save file.
Why are you so fixated on the mentality? What matters is how the tactic plays, not the overall team mentality. We have very defensive tactics and very offensive tactics without using Attacking or Defending mentality. Also, it's not like other mentalities are not being tested, they are just not scoring enough to be at the top.
I quoted wrong, sorry. I was actually answering someone asking people to test other mentalities, but I guess I clicked wrong somewhere (it wasn't even this comment section).
People are testing other mentalities, they are just not getting good rates, so they don't appear at the top.
There is a good chance of that too. I will keep working on Water before I can play again the career on weekend, and I think it works better without shorter passing and with wide IF. However, after testing a bit more, I think Counter-Press gives some interesting moves in game that match what I am looking for. I also want to play without Roll It Out, because I want faster counter attacks. I hope things work well on that direction.
Keep in mind that it is possible that overlap is just better. I am exploring the other road because I think it matches more what I'm trying to accomplish on the field, and I believe it has potential to good results. However, my beliefs are worth nothing if tests prove me wrong.
No 'run at defence'?
Players already have dibble more, so no need for run at defense. That gives me more freedom to tweak them individually on testing. About distribute quickly, this patch is pretty counter-attack oriented, so the faster you get back to the game, the better.
And why do you always refuse counter-press?
Counter-press doesn't make much of a difference, so no reason to add it. About passing, I have also tried shorter and it usually is worse for me. I also don't see much reason to test what has already been tested extensively, which is why I am trying a route with less overlap.
P.S.: I will add a version with counter-press and shorter passing to see how it goes.
I might be wrong and it might be better without wide IF, but every time I test IF wide in my experiments, it gives me better results.
Not necessarily bad, but I would like IFs to get closer to the area through the flanks instead of moving to the mid too early. That's the area where most of the interceptions happen.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
Glad to hear that! I hope you lift the trophy next year.
I don't see much problem on people using FM Scout, I just think it changes how you experience the game. When you use the tool, it becomes more focused in the long run, since you hire players thinking about their potential. When you don't use it, then it becomes more short run, thinking about their current attributes, and you get more attached to players. Both are valid ways of playing, and some people prefer one style more than the other.
Almost the same, except that IF is not set to wide.
Milakus said: Good thread, I'm looking forward to your result.
Thanks! Nice to have you here. I wish there were more people sharing their runs here in FM-Arena as well.
Do you ever change the team mentality late in the game? For example: you were leading City by 2 goals in minute 80 - in this situation could it be beneficial to change your team's mentality from "balanced" to "very defensive"? In theory, they should try less risky balls, translating in less passes being intercepted and thus less chances for the opposition.
I'm yet to play FM 23, but I'm doing this in FM 22 with your ZaZ - Green. If I'm up by 1 goal in minute 85, I just go Very Defensive (from Positive) and set time wasting to the maximum (from none).
Wonder what you think.
No, I don't change mentality. I tried already other mentalities, but they seem to concede more (or at least as much) than balanced. Instead, when I have a good lead, I switch to Light Water. In some matches, I also switch the sides of wingbacks and inside forwards to give them match experience, because I like them to be good at both sides for versatility (in fact, all my wingbacks and inside forwards are training for the opposite side, and not the side they play in).
About Green very defensive, I'm not sure if it brings much benefit, since I didn't test it. The tactic was already solid enough in the back to me.
A few notable matches are below.
- Victory against Chelsea at home with only 32% of possession. I think goals are way more important than possession, but I know some people disagree.
- Victory against Leicester at their home. I picked this one because if you win bigger sides by two or more goals, you need to be sure to tell your team to not get overconfident.
- Victory against Arsenal at their home.
- A draw against Aston Vila, in which we were winning until 94 minutes, then my goalkeeper passed the ball to their attacker when there was no danger.
- Epic victory against Manchester City at our home. I will comment about this match below.
In this match against City, they were winning at half time. Some people like to ask me what to do in this kind of situation, so I picked this match to explain what I usually do and took some screenshots.
The first thing to do is to motivate your players with team talk. Usually, I like to let the players know how disappointed I am, so they understand they need to put more effort in the second half.
Second thing to do is to make the right subs. In this case, I removed the player with yellow card and nervous, as well as the lowest rates of the match. For their places, I picked the two motivated players with perfect morale, and the option that was not very happy with his playing time (have to think about the rest of the season). After that, I told them individually that I have faith on them.
Finally, I used shouts whenever available to give that last push. My rules are simple:
- Encourage if not winning (drawing or losing).
- No pressure if winning on the edge against stronger team.
- Praise if winning for more than 10 minutes.
- Berate if losing by large margin (two or more) for more than 10 minutes.
Those steps don't guarantee that you will comeback, but it make your team play better than during first half, which increases your chances of winning. Remember to tell they did a good job if they manage to comeback!
Other interesting things that happened during those matches were a proposal for a friendly tournament, paying me 110k euros, which I promptly accepted. It doesn't matter if your players are doing well or not, you can always play with youth team if needed. I also like to add friendly matches for the U21 one day after matches from main team, so I can give match fitness to players that didn't participate in the match day.
Since my form was good and I got some money, I decided to upgrade training facilities and youth facilities. That doesn't contribute to the goal of winning the UCL in three years, but I like the idea of leaving the club in a better situation than I received, because success is not guaranteed.
I guess that's it for now. Let me know your thoughts and suggestions! I will probably finish this first season next weekend. For anyone interested in checking players or teams on this run, here is the save file.