Zippo said: OP tactics become possible only if there are tactical exploits in the game.
This year the developers have made sure the game is free of tactical exploit.
So if you want to achieve consistent domination in the game then you must bring the best players in your team.
If you think there must be a tactic that would allow you dominate game with Branford and Nottingham Forest then you have a wrong idea about the concept of FM, it isn't FIFA or PES.
It's possible to dominate this game using the worst tactic in the game. Expand
I haven't seen a tactic with good results using AML/R that run wide with the ball (like W-Su or W-At). I think they are weak in this version, just like IF was weak in FM22 before the patch that fixed their behavior.
Gotcha, is another match engine update expected soon? I can’t remember when 22.3 came last year Expand
I don't think it will be so soon, maybe in February. I just want to play some career without worrying with tests for a while so I can share gameplay tips with some people.
Anyway, what I have observed is that IWB is not getting as close to the box as in FM22. I am investigating if that is caused by a duo of DMs, or because I use Wingers instead of Inside Forwards. I will submit this last test to confirm it, then take a break.
tom100000000000 said: My most recent submission is also double VOL with IWB and I like the way it played but I was quite confused by the IWB positioning. Far fewer runs up the middle than I saw in fm22, which is why I selected overlaps instead of underlaps. Did you notice this too? I wonder if VOL position interferes and they prefer to go wider Expand
I will do one last test in this patch, switching IWB for WB, and W for IF, to see if that improves the tactic. If it doesn't, then I will wait for next patch before testing more.
Do you tailor your tactic to your player's strengths (without drastically changing the tactic) or stick to the tactic and find players who are a more natural fit? I've been doing the latter, but find it increasingly difficult as I recruit better and better players.
The follow-up question is whether learning more about tactics is worth the time investment. I understand most game mechanics pretty well at this point, but I've held off on messing with tactics because I know very little about soccer (see, I called it soccer). They seem like the most complicated part of this game by far.
Cheers! Expand
I would rather keep the tactic and shape the team around it. If you cannot find good players to certain position, then you can always retrain from other positions.
About learning about tactics, there is a bit of real life football that actually fits the game, but lots of things in the game do not match reality. You can commit time to that, but next year it can all become void once new engine is out.
mama14 said: The difference between fire2.4 and fire 2.4 DW is the midfield... does that have much influence on the results?? which one is better?
I understand what you are saying.. but as I look at the test results, all the number of tests give different results.. so 2.4 and 2.4 DW aren't consistent?? Is that what you mean? Expand
They are sorted from best to worse by the score of FM-Arena's tests.
mama14 said: The difference between fire2.4 and fire 2.4 DW is the midfield... does that have much influence on the results?? which one is better? Expand
They are automatically sorted by results in the first post.
pek80 said: @ZaZ i find that opponent shot and xG is almost as same as me, how come we can beat them by 1-3 goal almost al the time? Expand
I am trying to improve the defense, so opponents don't get such high xG.
Nebuuuu said: Tough Football Manager for tactic creators like ZaZ. Startet a complete fresh new save with my favourite club Hertha BSC. Its a lower team with 2-3 good, fast player like Serdar, Lukebakio and talented youngsters like Gechter, M. Dardai, alot of Oldies like Kevin Prince Boateng, Jovetic, Pekarik. I transferred Amiri (ZOM) from Leverkusen to us (2,5 Mio.€), sold Selke and Darida for about 3+ Mio.€.
So overall alot of stuff to do the next 1-2 seasons, because also financially also pretty low.
Startet the season with a ez 5:1 win vs an amateur-club FV Engers at the german cup. Won 3-0 vs Union Berlin (Derby), first league match. 4:1 at home vs Frankfurt, Kanga (my striker) 5 goals in the first 2 league matches. 0:1 away vs Gladbach, deserved. Kanga injured...
3:2 (home) vs Dortmund, what a fight. 1 man less, red card... 2:0 win in Augsburg, who hadn´t a good league start. Had to change my offensive. And then the home match vs Leverkusen..
What a good game..literally almost perfect. Beautiful goals, plays...the tactic is working.
After 6 league matches, 5w - 1l, 2nd place..what a start. Looking forward. Had alot of injuries and condition problems at the end of the matches, because high intense but yeah.
I guess there are better tactics but i like this style of football more and i know this will get harder over time this season, so i´m looking forward for the next season and plan to change the team, hopefully will reach top5-6 places to get into international business, to make some money.
Thanks alot so far ZaZ. A "light" Version (for 3+ goal leads), maybe a "defensive" Version would be great. I mean, we can change that (-> counter etc.) for ourselves but yeah..we need your magic. ;-P
Have a nice day@all. Expand
Thanks for testing! In this version, solid defense is doing better than strong attack, so I'm trying to find a good balance to keep the high scoring capability of my tactic with some better performance in win rate.
pek80 said: @ZaZ this is the best feeling so far for FM23, previous plan is difficult to find DW to fit in plan. But Fire2.4 is different! Im very underdog team and expected to finish 20th in the league. Expand
Glad you like it! I will keep trying to make that shape work.
Vergstein said: Hi ZaZ just seen you’ve uploaded like 4 different tactics 😂 just wondering which one did you find the most effective in general? Expand
Water 3.1 gave me the best results from this batch.
crizeKOS said: @ZaZ have u tried to play RPM with CBs? I wonder if BPDs are making things worse. Expand
The problem is the RPM with IWB-At and advanced wingers, which leave too much space in the back. I have to either change to a DM role that keeps position better, or use some IWB-Su to balance it out, together with DW.
gameresq said: Defende improved A LOT with 2.0, it's really great. With a second division team in Brazil, in 3 years I managed to win the Brazil Cup twice and the Copa Libertadores (continental cup). On the Club World Cup, I beat PSG 4-3! Unfortunately lost in the quarters to Liverpool, but only 3-2. Amazing tactic, going to test it on an underdog in Europe soon, probably St Pauli Expand
Thanks! It's still far from ideal. I'm checking in game if I find some clues, and testing some things from the top of the table. Hopefully I will get some better version later.
Gracolas said: Hey! For the first time in years, im doing a save without using Genie Scout nor checking ingame the PA.
I've started with a low league team, therefore my scouts ability are, for lack of a better word, questionable.
Therefore i want to know, besides reading personalities and media description, how can i spot that an 15/16 years old regen has a good potential?
Usually i only look to the Determination and Acc/Pace attributes. Am i doing anything wrong here? Expand
The highest the attributes of a player at early age, the highest the chance to have high potential. Remember that players grow extremely fast until 18, then they grow just fast until 23, then slow until 27, and after that their growth usually stop.
Nebuuuu said: Yo bro...i could take a "better" tactic here but i love your style & work you put into this game, since years. So..what tactic would you prefer for a lower-middleclass team like my Hertha BSC out of your FM23 tactics? I´m starting a new save, finally have time...so what of your tactics would fit in your opinion?
atm i try to start with Fire 2.0 Expand
Thanks! I will keep trying to improve Earth and Fire, so one of these would be better.
This year the developers have made sure the game is free of tactical exploit.
So if you want to achieve consistent domination in the game then you must bring the best players in your team.
If you think there must be a tactic that would allow you dominate game with Branford and Nottingham Forest then you have a wrong idea about the concept of FM, it isn't FIFA or PES.
It's possible to dominate this game using the worst tactic in the game.
I haven't seen a tactic with good results using AML/R that run wide with the ball (like W-Su or W-At). I think they are weak in this version, just like IF was weak in FM22 before the patch that fixed their behavior.
Gotcha, is another match engine update expected soon? I can’t remember when 22.3 came last year
I don't think it will be so soon, maybe in February. I just want to play some career without worrying with tests for a while so I can share gameplay tips with some people.
Anyway, what I have observed is that IWB is not getting as close to the box as in FM22. I am investigating if that is caused by a duo of DMs, or because I use Wingers instead of Inside Forwards. I will submit this last test to confirm it, then take a break.
I will do one last test in this patch, switching IWB for WB, and W for IF, to see if that improves the tactic. If it doesn't, then I will wait for next patch before testing more.
Nice! I hope 2.5 is even better.
It's one of the options. You can also try other tactics with advanced wingers from the table.
Do you tailor your tactic to your player's strengths (without drastically changing the tactic) or stick to the tactic and find players who are a more natural fit? I've been doing the latter, but find it increasingly difficult as I recruit better and better players.
The follow-up question is whether learning more about tactics is worth the time investment. I understand most game mechanics pretty well at this point, but I've held off on messing with tactics because I know very little about soccer (see, I called it soccer). They seem like the most complicated part of this game by far.
Cheers!
I would rather keep the tactic and shape the team around it. If you cannot find good players to certain position, then you can always retrain from other positions.
About learning about tactics, there is a bit of real life football that actually fits the game, but lots of things in the game do not match reality. You can commit time to that, but next year it can all become void once new engine is out.
Can I ask why you haven't used counter press? 99% of tactics seem to use as a default.
It was tested here.
I understand what you are saying.. but as I look at the test results, all the number of tests give different results.. so 2.4 and 2.4 DW aren't consistent?? Is that what you mean?
They are sorted from best to worse by the score of FM-Arena's tests.
They are automatically sorted by results in the first post.
I am trying to improve the defense, so opponents don't get such high xG.
Nebuuuu said: Tough Football Manager for tactic creators like ZaZ.
Startet a complete fresh new save with my favourite club Hertha BSC. Its a lower team with 2-3 good, fast player like Serdar, Lukebakio and talented youngsters like Gechter, M. Dardai, alot of Oldies like Kevin Prince Boateng, Jovetic, Pekarik.
I transferred Amiri (ZOM) from Leverkusen to us (2,5 Mio.€), sold Selke and Darida for about 3+ Mio.€.
So overall alot of stuff to do the next 1-2 seasons, because also financially also pretty low.
Startet the season with a ez 5:1 win vs an amateur-club FV Engers at the german cup.
Won 3-0 vs Union Berlin (Derby), first league match.
4:1 at home vs Frankfurt, Kanga (my striker) 5 goals in the first 2 league matches.
0:1 away vs Gladbach, deserved. Kanga injured...
3:2 (home) vs Dortmund, what a fight. 1 man less, red card...
2:0 win in Augsburg, who hadn´t a good league start. Had to change my offensive.
And then the home match vs Leverkusen..
What a good game..literally almost perfect. Beautiful goals, plays...the tactic is working.
After 6 league matches, 5w - 1l, 2nd place..what a start. Looking forward.
Had alot of injuries and condition problems at the end of the matches, because high intense but yeah.
I guess there are better tactics but i like this style of football more and i know this will get harder over time this season, so i´m looking forward for the next season and plan to change the team, hopefully will reach top5-6 places to get into international business, to make some money.
Thanks alot so far ZaZ.
A "light" Version (for 3+ goal leads), maybe a "defensive" Version would be great.
I mean, we can change that (-> counter etc.) for ourselves but yeah..we need your magic. ;-P
Have a nice day@all.
Thanks for testing! In this version, solid defense is doing better than strong attack, so I'm trying to find a good balance to keep the high scoring capability of my tactic with some better performance in win rate.
Glad you like it! I will keep trying to make that shape work.
I will try, it's because I'm still not completely happy with the instructions yet.
Water 3.1 gave me the best results from this batch.
The problem is the RPM with IWB-At and advanced wingers, which leave too much space in the back. I have to either change to a DM role that keeps position better, or use some IWB-Su to balance it out, together with DW.
For now, Fire 2.1 Legacy and Earth 2.0 with 3 strikers.
Thanks! It's still far from ideal. I'm checking in game if I find some clues, and testing some things from the top of the table. Hopefully I will get some better version later.
I usually look more to speed attributes.
I've started with a low league team, therefore my scouts ability are, for lack of a better word, questionable.
Therefore i want to know, besides reading personalities and media description, how can i spot that an 15/16 years old regen has a good potential?
Usually i only look to the Determination and Acc/Pace attributes. Am i doing anything wrong here?
The highest the attributes of a player at early age, the highest the chance to have high potential. Remember that players grow extremely fast until 18, then they grow just fast until 23, then slow until 27, and after that their growth usually stop.
So..what tactic would you prefer for a lower-middleclass team like my Hertha BSC out of your FM23 tactics? I´m starting a new save, finally have time...so what of your tactics would fit in your opinion?
atm i try to start with Fire 2.0
Thanks! I will keep trying to improve Earth and Fire, so one of these would be better.