letsgo9 said: Idk man, I meant set pieces in general. I tried 3 dif ones alrdy. Maybe is just my underdog team with bad jumpers. Expand
Hybrid marking, no posts, defend the box seems for me super strong rarely concede i think AI attacks much better the meta near posts so i do concede sometimes when in last patch very rarely
Delicious said: As even sponsor said, i was like, did i smoke something different or something ain't quite right here... But still isn't very professional to change your patch "sneaky sneaky" like that.. Expand
It is in the patch note the fix for defending headers in own area, apart from that nothing ME open play, but they have confirmed reducing goals from many tests but curious how can you reduce from 3.15 to 2.8 goals average without ME open play fixes maybe set pieces which are huge in FM in terms of goals may have been toned down so it is bit better zero idea tbf
sponsorkindest said: I thought I was hallucinating, I swear I read something like that (something around attacking behaviour) on the patch note within an hour the patch came out but I couldn't find that after. Expand
There were posts of the admins which had simulated and went from 3.15 to 2.8 goals average in tests as very close to real life simulation so maybe is that, so goals are reduced as confirmed by them but dunno how it is done if no ME open play stuff have been added.
Delicious said: I was sure there was a voice saying : Reduced "goal scoring overall", now can't find it anymore, from that seem they have just fixed AI behavior on defending phase. Which is the case, is totaly dumb.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player). Expand
An admin from them in the general thread replied to me that no attacking movement and stuff like that has been altered even under the hood, because i mostly asked about movement and ME more general stuff, there was a fix for defending in own area for crosses something like that this "Fixes for too many defenders going for a header inside own area" but i think this also implies for set pieces maybe dunno
keithb said: I dont care about the pressing discussion but the game is a joke. They still haven't fixed the Spanish salary cap lol. Its a major league, hardly Djibouti is it Expand
Maybe the PR0 mod or some mod who change lot of stuff can fix these stuff have no idea imo
Floppyaams said: Liverpool won the league they played full pressing and literally played the whole season with 13-15 players. Did they turn into gods or were they all doped up? The following years were not the same. But why? Because they didn't have an effective press and players started getting tired/injured because the runs increased.
As a Liverpool fan, this can't be further from the truth. Yes we pressed more than 20218/2019 in 2019/2020 but our pressing numbers were still lower than Klopp's beginning seasons. Second, Klopp used situational pressing more to adapt to the fact that full on gegengressing is physically taxing on the players. 2017/2018 was the peak of our gegenpressing, and it really showed in the match against Real Madrid. Our players were knackered. Same thing happened in 2016/2017 in the Europa Final against Sevilla. We had many physios leave the club after their warning that such aggressive pressing play would not be sustainable long term because the physical fatigue would eventually catch up to the players. This was the main cause of our injury crisis after our EPL win. You will also notice that Liverpool covered less distance on the pitch that season because our players were too fatigued after two high intensity seasons and 0 reinforcements in the market.
And look what getting fresh and athletic players has done for our pressing now. We are back to having one of the best press in the league after we overhauled our tired and again midfield. So I would not agree with the notion that gegenpressing is not physically demanding. Even Leeds, another team famous for gegenpressing crumbled in their second season after fatigues and injuries mounted. Manchester City is the exception, not the norm. Also, I would attribute their exception to their ability to retain possession so well. No other team in the world can dominate possession like them.
Lastly, this is the most puzzling part for me because it's just a blatant lie, we did not have only 13-15 players in the season we won the league. We had a really strong bench during our UCL winning and EPL winning campaigns. We had a pretty good bench of Chamberlain, Keita, Lallana, Origi, Shaqiri, Lorvren, Milner, Gomez and some youth players. Most Liverpool fans still consider this to be the best bench we have had in recent times. Expand
Counter-press is not that demanding physically you press only 5s or 10s after you lose the ball thats it, is hard to implement in real life to press the counter then win the ball while other team is disorganized because they wanted to counter you but now they lost the ball and are clueless and prone to concede, highpress full 90 minutes doesn't exist in real life is as said earlier is how to retire at 25 players moto football, teams play with triggers nobody presses like some dudes at park who run back and forth without head and fans think, plus in PL 90% have midblock apart from City and Liverpool, Spurs who use highpress but even they have lots of moments in game which go to midblock.
I still see here people confusing gegenpressing with high pressing, i mean FM has done very well in dividing the UI for it so in game it is very clear then the implementation is different and can be imropoved more on both.
Klopp with his liverpool has never counter-pressed like with Dortmund never even title winning and whatever the reason is like everything in football others adapt, the gegenpressing Klopp had in 2010-2014 was something very new and nobody used it and was completely alien, then people started to expose the risk it takes to counter-press in transition that heavily like that Dortmund, but ofc he still counter-presses alot and is top at it but not like that Dortmund because it cannot have success in 2023 like many other things which evolve in football, counter-press is a huge risk in real life because if other team is smart and has good technical player they can bail the counter-press by 1)dribbling his way out 2) direct passes and trying to bypass the initial 5-10 s of passing.
SI can do alot better i have played this game since fm12 and i since then knew they had huge potential in simulation and i still think they can achieve a very close simulation of football based on a videogame because the base is there, FIFA is a meme and is far to simulate football even with their huge money they don't evolve
dzek said: For anyone who understands football will know that Gegenpress on FM has nothing to do with reality. It works completely differently. In real life players don't need that much stamina because if the pressing is effective then the team playing that style will have more possession and in football the team chasing the ball tires more than the other team. Liverpool and City are examples. Also you can't play Gegenpress when you have attacking width in fairly wide or even worse with wide. One last thing high press in FM has nothing to do with high press in reality. Expand
Gegenpress is a completely misused term mainly from fans and pundits, it means counter-press basically pressing the counter so instead of running back to defend the counter you press like maniac for 5-10 s after you lose the ball, dortmund is first famous to do it with klopp in a very specific way. Before that ofc many counter-press teams but none like that dortmund which had training drills and everything tailored for that 5-10s window, i have no idea why the gegenpress for most people is highpressing like without the ball that is a different concept and thing, that is just high pressing which has always been in football, they associate gegenpress with highpressing when in reality gegenpressing is just counter-press thats it a transition moment.
Yeah i was replied and confirmed in the Si forum that basically there is no change in attacking movement and stuff like that, so basically set pieces and headers inside the box for defending some stuff like that were the changes in ME which can affect something metawise
Blau said: If the game is ruined for you by learning these things then why are you on FMArena. There will always be a meta that is the most efficient way to play a video game. Many video games are like that. If pressing was significantly "nerfed" and low tempo possession football became the best way to play, people would also complain about that. Your not wrong that the game could benefit from more balancing but there will always be a "best/meta" way to play. Expand
Meta is part of every videogame which has existed but bit more balance i mean having high press so big difference from mid block is not good, in real life 90% of teams have midblock most of the match and matches with pressing triggers but high press full is basically 101 manual how to retire at 25 type of risk
Blau said: At the end of the day Football Manager is a videogame. If you do not enjoy playing the game then don't buy it. Not giving your money to SI will do more for changes you want then complaining on random forum. It is impossible for developers to make a video game that makes everyone happy. You as the consumer have to make the decision if the game is worth it for you to buy. I'm not saying you can't suggest improvements to the game. However, saying that the game is too easy is ironic. It's literally as difficult as you want it to be. Obviously, if you use or test tactics on FMArena it's going to be easy. Expand
I mean they should know now by years of feedback that gegenpressing is op as insane, i mean lutton town cannot press 90 minutes per match all season and get a europa league qual, i am sure is something they can fix it if they work on it, make pressing much harder to do and keep nobody presses high line expect very few teams, and make mid block a very viable if not the best way as is it IRL, mid block in game is handicaped, let alone low block which is a joke is a losing change
alberfb88 said: not working on the new patch or is it just me? finished with brighton 3rd, started new season with the new patch and standing 17th after 20 games and a better squad Expand
Maybe they nerfed the WB(a) overlap madness, but without testing it is just an assumption
dzek said: Did they say somewhere that it would be a fresh start? Expand
I mean Unity is recoding basically all its not easy to migrate to some 2009 ME to Unity which is completely different stuff, the concept animation etc, but i think ME will be very different at least they won't have the excuse of limitation because Unity for what FM wants for ME can do much better even graphically
dzek said: To understand FM23 and FM24 I still haven't played them properly. I'm tired of so many bugs, big or small, that ruin my experience as a user of the game. I've also read, actually, quite a few funny comments from those trying for some strange reason to defend SI's case that if we find the game easy or full of bugs then it's better not to use certain features of the game etc. For example I know that high pressing systems win more often than defensive systems and generally work in a way that ME likes better but their view is to play with defensive systems so I don't see the bugs and generally lose. What a joke!
Can someone tell me what the purpose of a game is? I think it's clear to all of us but I'm curious to hear some opinions.. Expand
They should hire coaches and analyst to improve the ME seriously, i have huge hopes for FM 25 because it will be a fresh start and they have the chance to not mess it up, i mean it doesnt have to be rocket science just a good ME, they have the base.
dzek said: The only thing I don't see in the patch's changelog is the positioning of defenders in open play. Hopefully there are improvements there as well. Expand
I saw a post in their forum from mods that goals will be lowered and improvements on defender challenging the header not ball watching i think, also the thrown ins bug, many goals in my saves were from attacking thrown ins either conceded or scored defenders were inviting them to score like bug
Hybrid marking, no posts, defend the box seems for me super strong rarely concede i think AI attacks much better the meta near posts so i do concede sometimes when in last patch very rarely
Defensively they are rock solid always was like it.
It is in the patch note the fix for defending headers in own area, apart from that nothing ME open play, but they have confirmed reducing goals from many tests but curious how can you reduce from 3.15 to 2.8 goals average without ME open play fixes maybe set pieces which are huge in FM in terms of goals may have been toned down so it is bit better zero idea tbf
There were posts of the admins which had simulated and went from 3.15 to 2.8 goals average in tests as very close to real life simulation so maybe is that, so goals are reduced as confirmed by them but dunno how it is done if no ME open play stuff have been added.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player).
An admin from them in the general thread replied to me that no attacking movement and stuff like that has been altered even under the hood, because i mostly asked about movement and ME more general stuff, there was a fix for defending in own area for crosses something like that this "Fixes for too many defenders going for a header inside own area" but i think this also implies for set pieces maybe dunno
Maybe the PR0 mod or some mod who change lot of stuff can fix these stuff have no idea imo
This video explain in 1 minute the difference
As a Liverpool fan, this can't be further from the truth. Yes we pressed more than 20218/2019 in 2019/2020 but our pressing numbers were still lower than Klopp's beginning seasons. Second, Klopp used situational pressing more to adapt to the fact that full on gegengressing is physically taxing on the players. 2017/2018 was the peak of our gegenpressing, and it really showed in the match against Real Madrid. Our players were knackered. Same thing happened in 2016/2017 in the Europa Final against Sevilla. We had many physios leave the club after their warning that such aggressive pressing play would not be sustainable long term because the physical fatigue would eventually catch up to the players. This was the main cause of our injury crisis after our EPL win. You will also notice that Liverpool covered less distance on the pitch that season because our players were too fatigued after two high intensity seasons and 0 reinforcements in the market.
And look what getting fresh and athletic players has done for our pressing now. We are back to having one of the best press in the league after we overhauled our tired and again midfield. So I would not agree with the notion that gegenpressing is not physically demanding. Even Leeds, another team famous for gegenpressing crumbled in their second season after fatigues and injuries mounted. Manchester City is the exception, not the norm. Also, I would attribute their exception to their ability to retain possession so well. No other team in the world can dominate possession like them.
Lastly, this is the most puzzling part for me because it's just a blatant lie, we did not have only 13-15 players in the season we won the league. We had a really strong bench during our UCL winning and EPL winning campaigns. We had a pretty good bench of Chamberlain, Keita, Lallana, Origi, Shaqiri, Lorvren, Milner, Gomez and some youth players. Most Liverpool fans still consider this to be the best bench we have had in recent times.
Counter-press is not that demanding physically you press only 5s or 10s after you lose the ball thats it, is hard to implement in real life to press the counter then win the ball while other team is disorganized because they wanted to counter you but now they lost the ball and are clueless and prone to concede, highpress full 90 minutes doesn't exist in real life is as said earlier is how to retire at 25 players moto football, teams play with triggers nobody presses like some dudes at park who run back and forth without head and fans think, plus in PL 90% have midblock apart from City and Liverpool, Spurs who use highpress but even they have lots of moments in game which go to midblock.
Klopp with his liverpool has never counter-pressed like with Dortmund never even title winning and whatever the reason is like everything in football others adapt, the gegenpressing Klopp had in 2010-2014 was something very new and nobody used it and was completely alien, then people started to expose the risk it takes to counter-press in transition that heavily like that Dortmund, but ofc he still counter-presses alot and is top at it but not like that Dortmund because it cannot have success in 2023 like many other things which evolve in football, counter-press is a huge risk in real life because if other team is smart and has good technical player they can bail the counter-press by 1)dribbling his way out 2) direct passes and trying to bypass the initial 5-10 s of passing.
SI can do alot better i have played this game since fm12 and i since then knew they had huge potential in simulation and i still think they can achieve a very close simulation of football based on a videogame because the base is there, FIFA is a meme and is far to simulate football even with their huge money they don't evolve
Gegenpress is a completely misused term mainly from fans and pundits, it means counter-press basically pressing the counter so instead of running back to defend the counter you press like maniac for 5-10 s after you lose the ball, dortmund is first famous to do it with klopp in a very specific way.
Before that ofc many counter-press teams but none like that dortmund which had training drills and everything tailored for that 5-10s window, i have no idea why the gegenpress for most people is highpressing like without the ball that is a different concept and thing, that is just high pressing which has always been in football, they associate gegenpress with highpressing when in reality gegenpressing is just counter-press thats it a transition moment.
Yeah i was replied and confirmed in the Si forum that basically there is no change in attacking movement and stuff like that, so basically set pieces and headers inside the box for defending some stuff like that were the changes in ME which can affect something metawise
Meta is part of every videogame which has existed but bit more balance i mean having high press so big difference from mid block is not good, in real life 90% of teams have midblock most of the match and matches with pressing triggers but high press full is basically 101 manual how to retire at 25 type of risk
I mean they should know now by years of feedback that gegenpressing is op as insane, i mean lutton town cannot press 90 minutes per match all season and get a europa league qual, i am sure is something they can fix it if they work on it, make pressing much harder to do and keep nobody presses high line expect very few teams, and make mid block a very viable if not the best way as is it IRL, mid block in game is handicaped, let alone low block which is a joke is a losing change
finished with brighton 3rd, started new season with the new patch and standing 17th after 20 games and a better squad
Maybe they nerfed the WB(a) overlap madness, but without testing it is just an assumption
I mean Unity is recoding basically all its not easy to migrate to some 2009 ME to Unity which is completely different stuff, the concept animation etc, but i think ME will be very different at least they won't have the excuse of limitation because Unity for what FM wants for ME can do much better even graphically
Can someone tell me what the purpose of a game is? I think it's clear to all of us but I'm curious to hear some opinions..
They should hire coaches and analyst to improve the ME seriously, i have huge hopes for FM 25 because it will be a fresh start and they have the chance to not mess it up, i mean it doesnt have to be rocket science just a good ME, they have the base.
I saw a post in their forum from mods that goals will be lowered and improvements on defender challenging the header not ball watching i think, also the thrown ins bug, many goals in my saves were from attacking thrown ins either conceded or scored defenders were inviting them to score like bug