Maybe it's not like importing but just showing what's going onto the position? Holy banana and i was doing it every game? Gonna check SI forum... that's made me really curious Expand
As I said, everything is very simple.
There're 2 ways of settings OIs:
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific player, which means this player can change his position during the next match but the OIs you set should "stick" to him regardless of the position his is playing in.
Here's a tooltip from the game:
This approach of setting OIs is quite time consuming and it requires doing before every match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific position instead of specific player. It can be set only once and it should apply against every opponent. No need to set it again before every match.
Delicious said: And how do i check if it's working because i am pretty sure that they did change this year and didn't make "automatically working" and you need select it every game but i might be wrong Expand It's been working like that since it was introduced. No changes to it this year.
Btw, if you have doubts about some game mechanics then I find the best way to clear the doubts is asking the devs on the official forum. They're really nice guys and will be glad to answer your questions.
Delicious said: If i don't preselect Trigger press from OIs is overwriting the TI or TI has always the most prioriy? Expand As far as I know OIs take priority over TIs and PIs, which means if your tactic doesn't have "Get Stuck In" TI and your players don't have "Tackle Harder" PI but your OIs tell your players to "Tackle Hard" every opposition player then you can expect seeing your players use "Tackle Harder" against every opposition player in matches.
Delicious said: Logically would be just fine to put "weak foot" seem the more logical but maybe ain't working this way as well. Expand Let's image that the right winger of your opponent has his right foot as he strongest foot and if you apply "Show Onto Weaker" foot OI to him then your players will try to block his way down the right flank and force him to "Cut Inside" from the flank.
You really need to be careful with that because most of time he'll be having a free way from the flank to the box as your player should block his way down the flank if his left foot isn't that bad, for example, he's got "Fairly Strong" rating for the left foot then he can easily exploit that free way to the box.
So as you can see it isn't that easy to decided whether to apply "Show Onto Weaker" OI or not.
Delicious said: but it's strange that once i click "select position" after selected all the players is importing them... am i missing something?
Beside that, if that's is working even tho you can't "see" that we can make more in-depth test about even which roles need tackle harder etc... Expand
Delicious said: Don't you need to select them every game? that's how i do that i do preselect on position and every game before game starting i do select all the enemy team and click on position so it put the ois in. If there is an option to make it automatically would be faster to test them, that's why i did ask how you did that Expand
There are 2 ways of setting OIs:
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting the OIs specifically only against your next opponents. it resets before each match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting the OIs against any opponent, it will apply against every opponent. It doesn't reset each time and you can set it only once and it should apply against each opponent.
@TommyToxic, if you're interested to know how the stats changed with the adjusted attributes for the Target Forward then you can download game saves at the end of the test - Adjusted Attributes
What that test shows is that with the spesific [Attribute Test Tactic], pace/acceleration is the most important attribute for the team overall. Anything beyond that is speculation.
Again, it comes down to what the purpose of the testing league is. I assumed it was to test different types of tactics with a variety of roles and instructions, and not just test meta tactics? People have spent a lot of time and energy into creating the testing league, so whatever the purpose it's the right of the creators ofc. Expand
Hi Tommy,
We've re-tested your tactic with adjusted attributes for the Target Forward.
Delicious said: If before the last site-changelog i was amazed, now i am literally without words. Great Job, this give uniqueness to the site overall. Expand
I'm glad to hear you like it.
Delicious said: A bit sad that asymmetric will count like normal one but i do understand that is kinda hard to make it. Expand
No, it wasn't hard to implement, it's just there's really no different in terms of the present positions between asymmetric and symmetric formations, of course, there might be a difference in terms of the performance between them.
Yes, it's an asymmetric 4-2-3-1 but there's no different in terms of the present positions between it and any symmetric 4-2-3-1 so in the Hall Of Fame your asymmetric 4-2-3-1 override all symmetric 4-2-3-1 tactic so they don't appear because your asymmetric 4-2-3-1 on top of them by points scored.
I want to introduce a new section - "Hall Of Fame".
"Hall Of Fame" is composed of tactics that have something unique. For example, a unique formation or unique stats within the formation, for example, the highest points or the highest goals scored within the formation. For now, it's only the highest points but at some point later more stats will be added.
Please, note that asymmetric formations like at the screenshots below are considered the same because there's really no difference between them in terms of the present positions:
Would it be possible to add a download count on the tactics table please? I appreciate this information can be found on the tactic thread but I think it would be a nice to have to see what tactics are popular. Could even take it a little further and perhaps add something on the table to show which tactics are 'hot' 'Trending' or whatever the kids say these days.
Thanks Expand
Hey,
We've added an ability to sort the tested tactics by Downloads, Views, Comments and Uploaded Time.
Also, it's funny that the test #1 of this tactic also hit very high 68.2 points
So if we tested tactics only 1 run ( 320 matches ) or 2 runs ( 640 matches ) then "424 Extreme Chainsaw" tactic would be sitting the top with 69 points!
But after 18 tests ( 5,760 Matches ) the average points per 38 matches dropped from 69 to 59 points.
That's all what you need to know about the FM RNG...
ZaZ said: Have you thought about using something like a Monte Carlo sampling on the tests? Basically, take smaller samples of the 5760 matches repeated times, then make statistics based on the statistic of those samples (for example, taking the medians of those subsamples, and calculating the median of them).
It's not hard to implement, and it can increase the precision of tests without increasing the computational effort used. There are also other types of subsampling, including bootstrapping and other techniques. Expand
I don't think anything of that can be easily applied on our automated testing. Also, anyway there won't be enough subsamples when most of time we do 2-6 tests.
Mostly important, there's no need for such accuracy. Look at this test - https://fm-arena.com/thread/3293-what-it-takes-to-dominate-epl-with-bournemouth/ so to dominate the league and have consistent results your team must be the strongest ( or close to that ) in the league and when it happens then the difference between a 61 points tactic and a 43 points tactic reduces to 7 points and if you look at the test it happens when the team is far from being the stronger team in the league, so when finally your team is the strongest team in the league then there won't be any difference between a 61 points tactic and a 55 points tactic.
I mean even -/+ 4 points accuracy is totally acceptable for FM.
CBP87 said: Sorry @Zippo slightly confused, so are you saying that even playing 5760 matches that RNG swing is greater than initially thought (+1 either way) Expand
First of all, for those who may not be aware, RNG is an acronym for Random Number Generator. RNG is something that produces randomness, variability, or luck in digital games.
Here's the test result of "4132 Extreme Diamond Undervolt II" tactic - The 1st Test 5,760 matches played / PTS = 61.9 / G.D. = +16.1 / FOR = 81.3 / AG = 65.2
Here's the result of re-test - RE-TEST 5,760 matches played / PTS = 59.5 / G.D. = +13.0 / FOR = 80.4 / AG = 67.4
Some facts if we take a single test ( 320 matches played ):
The highest PTS = 65.7 The lowest PTS = 54.7 The highest goals scored = 85.1 The lowest goals scored = 73.3 The highest goals conceded = 72.0 The lowest goals conceded = 62.3
If we take all the 36 tests:
Points range from 54.7 to 65.7 Goals Scored range from 73.3 to 85.1 Goals Conceded range from 62.3 to 72.0
So as you can see if we tested tactics only for 320 matches ( 1 Test ) then depending on the RNG(luck) "4132 Extreme Diamond Undervolt II" tactic might hit 54.7 points or 65.7 points.
Please note, in our tactic testing league:
- every player gets 100% boost of Conditions and Morale before each match - all the teams use the same starting eleven for each match, no rotation happens - no injures happen - no transfers happen - no manager moves happen ... and there are many other features that reduce the RNG
Now, just imagine what RNG you have in normal game when the factors above aren't eliminated and they add an additional RNG.
Of course, in normal game it's possible to get very consistent results with almost no RNG but to achive that your team must be much stronger comparing to your opponents, something like PSG in French Legue 1 you'll be winning almost 100% of the matches with any tactic so no RNG.
Maybe it's not like importing but just showing what's going onto the position? Holy banana and i was doing it every game? Gonna check SI forum... that's made me really curious
As I said, everything is very simple.
There're 2 ways of settings OIs:
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific player, which means this player can change his position during the next match but the OIs you set should "stick" to him regardless of the position his is playing in.
Here's a tooltip from the game:
This approach of setting OIs is quite time consuming and it requires doing before every match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific position instead of specific player. It can be set only once and it should apply against every opponent. No need to set it again before every match.
It's been working like that since it was introduced. No changes to it this year.
Btw, if you have doubts about some game mechanics then I find the best way to clear the doubts is asking the devs on the official forum. They're really nice guys and will be glad to answer your questions.
Delicious said: If i don't preselect Trigger press from OIs is overwriting the TI or TI has always the most prioriy?
As far as I know OIs take priority over TIs and PIs, which means if your tactic doesn't have "Get Stuck In" TI and your players don't have "Tackle Harder" PI but your OIs tell your players to "Tackle Hard" every opposition player then you can expect seeing your players use "Tackle Harder" against every opposition player in matches.
Delicious said: Logically would be just fine to put "weak foot" seem the more logical but maybe ain't working this way as well.
Let's image that the right winger of your opponent has his right foot as he strongest foot and if you apply "Show Onto Weaker" foot OI to him then your players will try to block his way down the right flank and force him to "Cut Inside" from the flank.
You really need to be careful with that because most of time he'll be having a free way from the flank to the box as your player should block his way down the flank if his left foot isn't that bad, for example, he's got "Fairly Strong" rating for the left foot then he can easily exploit that free way to the box.
So as you can see it isn't that easy to decided whether to apply "Show Onto Weaker" OI or not.
Delicious said: but it's strange that once i click "select position" after selected all the players is importing them... am i missing something?
Beside that, if that's is working even tho you can't "see" that we can make more in-depth test about even which roles need tackle harder etc...
Sorry, I didn't get that.
If there is an option to make it automatically would be faster to test them, that's why i did ask how you did that
There are 2 ways of setting OIs:
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting the OIs specifically only against your next opponents. it resets before each match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting the OIs against any opponent, it will apply against every opponent. It doesn't reset each time and you can set it only once and it should apply against each opponent.
Yes, you can test OIs.
Just set them in the 'Opposition Instruction' section and you're good to go.
Let's see how it'll do.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/4534-424-extreme-volts-iv-opposition-instructions/
there is not a "best" tactic or stuff like that, or you decide to follow the meta or you adapt what you like to see to your team.
I've put it for a test.
Let's see how it'll do.
I just made screenshot before adjusting the height
Here's a correct one:
What that test shows is that with the spesific [Attribute Test Tactic], pace/acceleration is the most important attribute for the team overall. Anything beyond that is speculation.
Again, it comes down to what the purpose of the testing league is. I assumed it was to test different types of tactics with a variety of roles and instructions, and not just test meta tactics? People have spent a lot of time and energy into creating the testing league, so whatever the purpose it's the right of the creators ofc.
Hi Tommy,
We've re-tested your tactic with adjusted attributes for the Target Forward.
Adjusted Attributes - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/4647-442-dycheball-adjusted-attributes/
Default Attributes - https://fm-arena.com/thread/4482-442-dycheball/
Acceleration 15->13
Pace 15->13
Jumping Reach 9->15
Strength 11->16
Height 175cm->190cm
Default Attributes of Target Forward
Adjusted attributes of Target Forward
I forgot to adjust the queue after I moved it from FM22 to FM23.
No need to re-post, I've fixed it now. Should be tested soon.
Done.
Great Job, this give uniqueness to the site overall.
I'm glad to hear you like it.
Delicious said: A bit sad that asymmetric will count like normal one but i do understand that is kinda hard to make it.
No, it wasn't hard to implement, it's just there's really no different in terms of the present positions between asymmetric and symmetric formations, of course, there might be a difference in terms of the performance between them.
I mean, let's take your asymmetric https://fm-arena.com/thread/4371-4231-extreme-volts-xx/
Yes, it's an asymmetric 4-2-3-1 but there's no different in terms of the present positions between it and any symmetric 4-2-3-1 so in the Hall Of Fame your asymmetric 4-2-3-1 override all symmetric 4-2-3-1 tactic so they don't appear because your asymmetric 4-2-3-1 on top of them by points scored.
I want to introduce a new section - "Hall Of Fame".
"Hall Of Fame" is composed of tactics that have something unique. For example, a unique formation or unique stats within the formation, for example, the highest points or the highest goals scored within the formation. For now, it's only the highest points but at some point later more stats will be added.
Please, note that asymmetric formations like at the screenshots below are considered the same because there's really no difference between them in terms of the present positions:
I hope you like it.
Cheers.
Would it be possible to add a download count on the tactics table please? I appreciate this information can be found on the tactic thread but I think it would be a nice to have to see what tactics are popular. Could even take it a little further and perhaps add something on the table to show which tactics are 'hot' 'Trending' or whatever the kids say these days.
Thanks
Hey,
We've added an ability to sort the tested tactics by Downloads, Views, Comments and Uploaded Time.
Cheers.
didn't see chainsaw results run by run tho
Yeah, that's the FM RNG... untamed and wild!
If you look at the result of our RNG measurement test - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2713-10-944-matches-tested-fm-rng-measured/ then you'll notice that if you test a tactic only for 38 matches then the RNG might be as high as crazy 26 points ( away from the true score ) !
The highest ever score of a single test was achieved by "424 Extreme Chainsaw" tactic - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/4025-4132-extreme-diamond-undervolt-ii/
The Test #2 hit crazy 69,4 points
Also, it's funny that the test #1 of this tactic also hit very high 68.2 points
So if we tested tactics only 1 run ( 320 matches ) or 2 runs ( 640 matches ) then "424 Extreme Chainsaw" tactic would be sitting the top with 69 points!
But after 18 tests ( 5,760 Matches ) the average points per 38 matches dropped from 69 to 59 points.
That's all what you need to know about the FM RNG...
It's not hard to implement, and it can increase the precision of tests without increasing the computational effort used. There are also other types of subsampling, including bootstrapping and other techniques.
I don't think anything of that can be easily applied on our automated testing. Also, anyway there won't be enough subsamples when most of time we do 2-6 tests.
Mostly important, there's no need for such accuracy. Look at this test - https://fm-arena.com/thread/3293-what-it-takes-to-dominate-epl-with-bournemouth/ so to dominate the league and have consistent results your team must be the strongest ( or close to that ) in the league and when it happens then the difference between a 61 points tactic and a 43 points tactic reduces to 7 points and if you look at the test it happens when the team is far from being the stronger team in the league, so when finally your team is the strongest team in the league then there won't be any difference between a 61 points tactic and a 55 points tactic.
I mean even -/+ 4 points accuracy is totally acceptable for FM.
As @ZaZ said.
Let's assume that the true score of some tactic is 60 pts.
You test it for 5,760 matches and get 61 pts.
Then you re-rest it for 5,760 matches again and get 59 pts.
So you can conclude the RNG swing of a 5,760 matches test can be as high as 1 point ( -/+ 1 point away from the true score).
Btw, our RNG measure was for FM22 and it seems for FM23 the RNG has slight increased so it could be 1.5 points for a 5,760 matches test.
First of all, for those who may not be aware, RNG is an acronym for Random Number Generator. RNG is something that produces randomness, variability, or luck in digital games.
Here's the test result of "4132 Extreme Diamond Undervolt II" tactic - The 1st Test
5,760 matches played / PTS = 61.9 / G.D. = +16.1 / FOR = 81.3 / AG = 65.2
Here's the result of re-test - RE-TEST
5,760 matches played / PTS = 59.5 / G.D. = +13.0 / FOR = 80.4 / AG = 67.4
Some facts if we take a single test ( 320 matches played ):
The highest PTS = 65.7
The lowest PTS = 54.7
The highest goals scored = 85.1
The lowest goals scored = 73.3
The highest goals conceded = 72.0
The lowest goals conceded = 62.3
If we take all the 36 tests:
Points range from 54.7 to 65.7
Goals Scored range from 73.3 to 85.1
Goals Conceded range from 62.3 to 72.0
So as you can see if we tested tactics only for 320 matches ( 1 Test ) then depending on the RNG(luck) "4132 Extreme Diamond Undervolt II" tactic might hit 54.7 points or 65.7 points.
Please note, in our tactic testing league:
- every player gets 100% boost of Conditions and Morale before each match
- all the teams use the same starting eleven for each match, no rotation happens
- no injures happen
- no transfers happen
- no manager moves happen
... and there are many other features that reduce the RNG
Now, just imagine what RNG you have in normal game when the factors above aren't eliminated and they add an additional RNG.
Of course, in normal game it's possible to get very consistent results with almost no RNG but to achive that your team must be much stronger comparing to your opponents, something like PSG in French Legue 1 you'll be winning almost 100% of the matches with any tactic so no RNG.
RNG, you are so CRUEL!