crizeKOS said: For sure there is some stuff that are just cosmetic in this game. Check it out guys ^^ Expand
Indeed, there's a lot of instructions that make like about 1% difference and you really can call them 'cosmetic'.
At the moment, we've done many internal testing and tested many different instructions like different mentalities and D-lines, as soon as we process the collected data we'll share it.
Droid said: I guess it'll be like it was in FM22, at some point later they we'll give the top tested tactics additional testing rounds to reach 3,000 matches Expand
yes, that's what we're planning to do in the future
If you want your tactic gets tested then the following minimal requirements must be met.
You need to provide results with your tactic. The results must be in ANY of the leagues below:
England - English Premier league Spain - La Liga German - Bundesliga French - League 1 Italy - Serie A Portugal - Liga Portugal Netherlands - Eredivisie
ALL SCREENSHOTS MUST BE IN ENGLISH
You must provide a screenshot of the tactic:
You must provide a screenshot of the league table. At least one full season must be played ( FOR/AG/G.D. stats must be visible ):
You must provide a screenshot of the team selection ( Goals/Assists/Ratings stats must be visible )
You must provide a screenshot of the fixtures ( from the start to the end ):
- The result must be yours and not a copy/paste of someone else's result. - The result must be from a normal game and not from a custom testing league. - Using in-game editors to boost your players is restricted. You should play the game in the normal way. - If your tactic is based on someone else's tactic then you should mention it. - If you make tweaks then you should say exactly what tweaks you made. For example, "I've added "Pass Into Space" TI and removed "Runt at Defense" TI." - Give your tactic a readable and distinguishable name in English. Avoid using acronyms and abbreviations. For example, the following names aren't acceptable: "442", "442 IFs IWBs", "433 DTF", "4-2-3-1", "4-3-3 Balanced", "5-3-2 attacking", "4-4-2 Wide", "4-4-2 Narrow", "451 WBT TDV ZBF", "4-3-3 3xAFs" and similar undistinguishable and unreadable names that contain acronyms and abbreviations. - Use only English language.
Only if the minimal requirements are met then a tactic is considered as a candidate for the testing but meeting the minimal requirements still doesn't guarantee that a tactic get tested because there're other factors that we take into consideration such as:
- The better presentation of your tactic, the more likely it gets tested so don't be lazy and add any additional useful information about your tactic. The more reasons you give us for it gets tested, the better.
IMPORTANT: We can't promise that we test every uploaded tactic and you shouldn't expect that. It's unlikely that we test your tactic if we find it's very similar to what that has been tested already so if you want your tactic to get tested then make sure you offering really new ideas for the testing.
The screenshot of the tests results look like this:
We'll refer the average score after 10,944 matches as the "true score" and "Random Number Generation" as "RNG".
Please notice, for everyone's convenience the data is translated into "a typical 38 matches season".
After analyzing the data here's what we found:
If you test a tactic for 1 season ( 1 season x 38 matches = total 38 matches ): - The highest RNG = 25.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 2 seasons ( 2 seasons x 38 matches = total 76 matches ): - The highest RNG = 23.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 4 seasons ( 4 seasons x 38 matches = total 152 matches ): - The highest RNG = 11.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 8 seasons ( 8 seasons x 38 matches = total 304 matches ): - The highest RNG = 8.4 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 12 seasons ( 12 seasons x 38 matches = total 456 matches ): - The highest RNG = 6.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 24 seasons ( 24 seasons x 38 matches = total 912 matches ): - The highest RNG = 4.3 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 48 seasons ( 48 seasons x 38 matches = 1,824 matches ): - The highest RNG = 4.0 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 84 seasons ( 84 seasons x 38 matches = 3,192 matches ): - The highest RNG = 1.9 point away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 168 seasons ( 168 seasons x 38 matches = 6,384 matches ): - The highest RNG = 1 point away from the "true score"
As you can see if you test a tactic only for 1 season ( 38 matches ) and you hit the highest RNG then your result will be about 25.8 points away from the "true score" and if you want to test with an accuracy of 1 point then you need to test a tactic 168 seasons or 6,384 matches.
Of course, you can test a tactic only 1 season ( 38 matches ) and hit "the true result" but the probability of doing so is about 3% or so.
Please not, that our testing methodology eliminates many factors that increase the RNG:
- We set the morale and conditions of all players in the testing league to 100% and "freeze" it so the morale and conditions don't change at all. Please note, that's true for all the teams in the league the AI controlled teams and the human controlled teams.
- No player rotation happens. All the teams in the league use the same starting eleven all the time.
- No transfers can happen. AI managers can't be sacked.
If your testing methodology doesn't eliminate the factors above then the RNG in your tests will much higher than we got in our 10,944 matches test.
Please note, if you test tactics with a very strong team such as PSG in French league where your opponents are much weaker than your team then you the RNG will be very small because almost with any tactic you'll be getting 100% win rate the end of the season but don't be fooled by such low RNG, you need to understand when your team is much stronger than your opponents then you winning matches mostly due to having much better players than your opponents and the quality of your tactic doesn't make any significant difference and the opposite is also true when your team is much weaker than your opponents then you loosing matches mostly due to having much weaker players than your opponents and in this case your tactic also doesn't make any significant difference. So testing tactics with the strongest or the weakest team in the league isn't a good idea at all and you need something in the middle.
Zippo said: if nothing unexpected happens then at some point later today we'll start testing Expand
unfortunately, "unexpected" has happened... during a migration process of the testing database an error happened so it may take one or two days to fix it
Until we find a more sophisticated approach to the issue I suggest everyone to handle any 'plagiarism' issues the following way: if you think that someone uses your work without giving proper credit then try to reach that person via "Private Messages" and explain your concerns if you can't come to an agreement then create a thread in the following section - https://fm-arena.com/board/9-fair-play-commission/ explain the case and put it to the judgment of the FM community.
Yes, I remember that discussion but unfortunately, I don't find it offers any convenient way to handle the matter so we're still looking and open for suggestions.
Team Instructions: None
Player Instructions: None
Low Pressing:
Team Instructions: "Much Lower Defensive Line" | "Low Block" | "Much Less Often ( Trigger Press )"
Player Instructions: None
High Pressing:
Team Instructions: "Much Higher Defensive Line" | "High Press" | "Much More Often ( Trigger Press )"
Player Instructions: None
Each settings was tested for 2,880 matches and then the result was translated into a standard season of 38 matches:
Team Instructions: None
Player Instructions: None
The tactical instruction was tested for 2,880 matches and then the result was translated into a standard season of 38 matches:
Team Instructions: None
Player Instructions: None
The tactical instruction was tested for 2,880 matches and then the result was translated into a standard season of 38 matches:
They'll be added soon too.
Team Instructions: None
Player Instructions: None
Each mentality was tested for 2,880 matches and then the result was translated into a standard season of 38 matches:
I'm 99% sure that nothing has changed regarding that area but as I sad we'll check at some point later.
Yes, it's in our plans but at some point latter.
Indeed, there's a lot of instructions that make like about 1% difference and you really can call them 'cosmetic'.
At the moment, we've done many internal testing and tested many different instructions like different mentalities and D-lines, as soon as we process the collected data we'll share it.
yes, that's what we're planning to do in the future
The sides had a chance to represent their arguments.
This case has been discussed enough for the FM community make their mind up on it.
I want to warn you if someone try to bring it up again then he'll be banned.
Cheers.
I've edited the thread and tactic names.
Please, use only English.
Thank you.
If you want your tactic gets tested then the following minimal requirements must be met.
You need to provide results with your tactic. The results must be in ANY of the leagues below:
England - English Premier league
Spain - La Liga
German - Bundesliga
French - League 1
Italy - Serie A
Portugal - Liga Portugal
Netherlands - Eredivisie
ALL SCREENSHOTS MUST BE IN ENGLISH
You must provide a screenshot of the tactic:
You must provide a screenshot of the league table. At least one full season must be played ( FOR/AG/G.D. stats must be visible ):
You must provide a screenshot of the team selection ( Goals/Assists/Ratings stats must be visible )
You must provide a screenshot of the fixtures ( from the start to the end ):
- The result must be yours and not a copy/paste of someone else's result.
- The result must be from a normal game and not from a custom testing league.
- Using in-game editors to boost your players is restricted. You should play the game in the normal way.
- If your tactic is based on someone else's tactic then you should mention it.
- If you make tweaks then you should say exactly what tweaks you made. For example, "I've added "Pass Into Space" TI and removed "Runt at Defense" TI."
- Give your tactic a readable and distinguishable name in English. Avoid using acronyms and abbreviations. For example, the following names aren't acceptable: "442", "442 IFs IWBs", "433 DTF", "4-2-3-1", "4-3-3 Balanced", "5-3-2 attacking", "4-4-2 Wide", "4-4-2 Narrow", "451 WBT TDV ZBF", "4-3-3 3xAFs" and similar undistinguishable and unreadable names that contain acronyms and abbreviations.
- Use only English language.
Only if the minimal requirements are met then a tactic is considered as a candidate for the testing but meeting the minimal requirements still doesn't guarantee that a tactic get tested because there're other factors that we take into consideration such as:
- The better presentation of your tactic, the more likely it gets tested so don't be lazy and add any additional useful information about your tactic. The more reasons you give us for it gets tested, the better.
IMPORTANT: We can't promise that we test every uploaded tactic and you shouldn't expect that. It's unlikely that we test your tactic if we find it's very similar to what that has been tested already so if you want your tactic to get tested then make sure you offering really new ideas for the testing.
unfortunately, I can't...
because we have a specially designed place to solve such issues and this is the place
@Jeffdekker, use a proper section for your issue.
Thank you.
I'm sure that many of you wonder how many matches it requites testing a tactic to get an accurate result? So we've tested FM RNG and found an answer.
We tested the same tactic for 10,944 matches and measured the RNG on different distances.
Here's you can download the screenshots of the tests results - 10,944 Matches Test - Download
The screenshot of the tests results look like this:
We'll refer the average score after 10,944 matches as the "true score" and "Random Number Generation" as "RNG".
Please notice, for everyone's convenience the data is translated into "a typical 38 matches season".
After analyzing the data here's what we found:
If you test a tactic for 1 season ( 1 season x 38 matches = total 38 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 25.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 2 seasons ( 2 seasons x 38 matches = total 76 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 23.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 4 seasons ( 4 seasons x 38 matches = total 152 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 11.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 8 seasons ( 8 seasons x 38 matches = total 304 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 8.4 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 12 seasons ( 12 seasons x 38 matches = total 456 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 6.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 24 seasons ( 24 seasons x 38 matches = total 912 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 4.3 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 48 seasons ( 48 seasons x 38 matches = 1,824 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 4.0 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 84 seasons ( 84 seasons x 38 matches = 3,192 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 1.9 point away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 168 seasons ( 168 seasons x 38 matches = 6,384 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 1 point away from the "true score"
As you can see if you test a tactic only for 1 season ( 38 matches ) and you hit the highest RNG then your result will be about 25.8 points away from the "true score" and if you want to test with an accuracy of 1 point then you need to test a tactic 168 seasons or 6,384 matches.
Of course, you can test a tactic only 1 season ( 38 matches ) and hit "the true result" but the probability of doing so is about 3% or so.
Please not, that our testing methodology eliminates many factors that increase the RNG:
- We set the morale and conditions of all players in the testing league to 100% and "freeze" it so the morale and conditions don't change at all. Please note, that's true for all the teams in the league the AI controlled teams and the human controlled teams.
- No player rotation happens. All the teams in the league use the same starting eleven all the time.
- No transfers can happen. AI managers can't be sacked.
If your testing methodology doesn't eliminate the factors above then the RNG in your tests will much higher than we got in our 10,944 matches test.
Please note, if you test tactics with a very strong team such as PSG in French league where your opponents are much weaker than your team then you the RNG will be very small because almost with any tactic you'll be getting 100% win rate the end of the season but don't be fooled by such low RNG, you need to understand when your team is much stronger than your opponents then you winning matches mostly due to having much better players than your opponents and the quality of your tactic doesn't make any significant difference and the opposite is also true when your team is much weaker than your opponents then you loosing matches mostly due to having much weaker players than your opponents and in this case your tactic also doesn't make any significant difference. So testing tactics with the strongest or the weakest team in the league isn't a good idea at all and you need something in the middle.
unfortunately, "unexpected" has happened... during a migration process of the testing database an error happened so it may take one or two days to fix it
if nothing unexpected happens then at some point later today we'll start testing
FM22 Discussion
Yes, I remember that discussion but unfortunately, I don't find it offers any convenient way to handle the matter so we're still looking and open for suggestions.