alexej said: Are we going to get a new section on the tactic testing page even though the changes to match engine are minor? Expand
We're going to retest few tactics internally and see whether the match engine changes are significant enough to start retesting all the tactics for 22.3 patch.
fm arena user said: Thanks i didnt see this thred before. Which atributes should AM have to give touchline instructions Motivation? Tactical knowladge? Expand
I just want to add that if you're going to handle the Shouts yourself then it's always more beneficial releasing Shouts to "Entire Team" instead of "Individuals" because it affects all the players at once.
"Fired up be the feedback" body language means that you released a proper shout that motivated your players.
If you're going to delegate the Shouts to your assistant manager then to do well he should have high "Motivating", "People Management", "Tactical Knowledge" and "Determination". Also, if these attributes are at a high level then he'll be very good in doing the Team Talks.
fm arena user said: Zaz do You belive that shouts during matches are usefull at all? Do You using any Yourself? Expand
I can say that we've tested the Touchline Instructions and found that they are essential and give a huge advantage.
It requires releasing Touchline Instructions every 15-20 minutes during a match which can be quite annoying so if you don't want to be bothered with doing them then you can delegate them to your assistant manager.
I just want to let you know that after some consideration we've decided not to retest tactics only because of the new fm-arena set pieces and the reason for this decision being that we're just a few weeks or so away from a new patch that also highly likely will require retesting the tactics so there's no point in doing any retesting right now.
MrGreen said: Why does this only work if you have those specified roles? Expand
Long story short, in some set pieces you can make players to take some specific positions by using some specific instructions and that specific positions are tied up with their positions and duties in the tactic.
Btw, I changed the thread name, having a word "exploit" in it was a bit misleading, the new name reflects better what this is about.
taringakos said: I think it might have to do with the role, but I don't see my DM marking the Goalkeeper whenever I have an offensive throw in. With 3.4. Thanks for the tactics and hard work! Expand
Hey,
The DM shouldn't mark the opposition GK. Yes, he's got that instruction but it makes him do a different thing. The game code has some issues and loopholes and this is one of them but it can be used to create some exploits during set pieces.
We've found a very effective short throw-in setup.
Unfortunately, this short throw-ins setup only works if your tactic has AML/R or ML/R positions and DCM position with "Support" duty, for example, DLP/RPM/DM/BWM ( Support ) on DMC position.
IMPORTANT: the delivery of the throw-ins should be set to "Short"
ta2199 said: Yeah I know, the only difference is the set pieces and the "Force opponent outside" TI (*). I think it will be a little bit better than the previous Asymmetric but not that much. Because the only difference between the Blue DM and Blue 3.2 is (*) and the tactic score increase about 2 points. So basically with all the changes of 3.2 and the same Asymmetric formation I think the tweak will score about 64 to maybe 65. I think people just want to know if It's better than Blue 3.2 or not xD. Expand I suggest you checking the changes between Blue DM and Blue 3.2.
@ZaZ put them under a spoiler ( the opening post ).
Blue DM -> Blue DMBlue 3.2: - Default throw-in attack routine. - Force Opposition Outside.
ta2199 said: If @Zippo ok with it, I will create a new thread. Or maybe if @ZaZ can add this one to OP, It will be tested automatically. Expand Hey,
What do you want to test in that tactic ? I mean what is the difference between that tactic and 4-2-3-1 DM Asymmetric ( ZaZ - Blue DM Tweak ) ? If it's only some of the defensive set pieces then unlikely it would make any meaningful difference. Both tactics have similar attacking throw-ins ( default "mixed" ) and corners ( near post ) routines which are the main set pieces. Am I missing something here?
@ZaZ, I've checked and it seems that removing "Play Out Defense" TI and adding "Distribute To Specific Team-Mate" TI doesn't make much difference, at least it can't be clearly seen after a 1,824 matches test for ZaZ - Blue DM.
ZaZ said: I just deleted it. It had zero downloads, so no big deal. Thanks for testing that, it was really bugging me because everyone is using and I couldn't see it working for me. Expand You know how many factors that increase RNG are eliminated in our testing methodology, not to mention that all the teams including the AI controlled teams and the human controlled teams use the same staring elven in all matches but still it requires testing 1,824 matches to clearly see the difference. Oh, gosh... I can only imagine how many matches it requires testing if there are huge RNG factors present like changing morale, conditions and different players in the starting eleven and so on.
ZaZ said: It would be nice to know, but I don't want to botter you with every small thing. Should I delete the tactic that I upload to reupload after you come with that answer? Expand Based on our tests, I can say that adding the default attacking throw-ins instead of long throw-ins and adding "Force Opponent Outside" TI improves the result of any tactic including ZaZ - Blue DM. Also it's possible that removing "Play Out Of Defense" TI and adding "Distribute To Specific Team-Mate" TI might further improve the result of ZaZ - Blue DM but I need to check it and I can report you back only later today, if you want to know my opinion then waiting a bit would be the best choice.
ZaZ said: P.S.: One more question, @Zippo. I see the top tactics removed the instruction "Play Out Of Defense", but it doesn't seem to give me better results when I remove it in my tests. Did you do any experiments to know if it's good or bad? Expand
Removing "Play Out Of Defense" TI only make sense when you also add "Distribute To Specific Team-Mate" TI because it only works properly in tandem.
I've been noticing that for some tactics it improves the result and for some tactic it doesn't if you're interested how it would work for ZaZ - Blue DM then I can check it and report you back later today.
ZaZ said: with the new set pieces. Expand Regarding the set pieces I suggest changing only the attacking throw-ins because it seems other set pieces work great.
ZaZ said: P.S.: What about "Force Opponent Outside"? I see people using it and making defense better, but it doesn't show much difference in my tests. Expand
We've tried adding "Force Opponent Outside" TI in different tactics and it always improved the result but it requires testing 1,824 matches to see that.
Please, post any result with the tactic from "normal" game.
Thank you.
We're going to retest few tactics internally and see whether the match engine changes are significant enough to start retesting all the tactics for 22.3 patch.
Which atributes should AM have to give touchline instructions Motivation? Tactical knowladge?
I just want to add that if you're going to handle the Shouts yourself then it's always more beneficial releasing Shouts to "Entire Team" instead of "Individuals" because it affects all the players at once.
"Fired up be the feedback" body language means that you released a proper shout that motivated your players.
If you're going to delegate the Shouts to your assistant manager then to do well he should have high "Motivating", "People Management", "Tactical Knowledge" and "Determination". Also, if these attributes are at a high level then he'll be very good in doing the Team Talks.
I can say that we've tested the Touchline Instructions and found that they are essential and give a huge advantage.
It requires releasing Touchline Instructions every 15-20 minutes during a match which can be quite annoying so if you don't want to be bothered with doing them then you can delegate them to your assistant manager.
More info - https://fm-arena.com/thread/628-touchline-shouts-in-fm21/
Please note, only English language is allowed here.
If you want to speak with your friends using your native language then you can use private messages for it.
Thank you.
Fixed. Try to remove it now.
I just want to let you know that after some consideration we've decided not to retest tactics only because of the new fm-arena set pieces and the reason for this decision being that we're just a few weeks or so away from a new patch that also highly likely will require retesting the tactics so there's no point in doing any retesting right now.
Cheers.
Long story short, in some set pieces you can make players to take some specific positions by using some specific instructions and that specific positions are tied up with their positions and duties in the tactic.
Btw, I changed the thread name, having a word "exploit" in it was a bit misleading, the new name reflects better what this is about.
I hope that helps.
Cheers.
Hey,
The DM shouldn't mark the opposition GK. Yes, he's got that instruction but it makes him do a different thing. The game code has some issues and loopholes and this is one of them but it can be used to create some exploits during set pieces.
DL - left throw-ins, DR - right throw-ins
We've found a very effective short throw-in setup.
Unfortunately, this short throw-ins setup only works if your tactic has AML/R or ML/R positions and DCM position with "Support" duty, for example, DLP/RPM/DM/BWM ( Support ) on DMC position.
IMPORTANT: the delivery of the throw-ins should be set to "Short"
Because the only difference between the Blue DM and Blue 3.2 is (*) and the tactic score increase about 2 points. So basically with all the changes of 3.2 and the same Asymmetric formation I think the tweak will score about 64 to maybe 65.
I think people just want to know if It's better than Blue 3.2 or not xD.
I suggest you checking the changes between Blue DM and Blue 3.2.
@ZaZ put them under a spoiler ( the opening post ).
Blue DM -> Blue DMBlue 3.2:
- Default throw-in attack routine.
- Force Opposition Outside.
4-2-3-1 DM Asymmetric ( ZaZ - Blue DM Tweak ) tactic by @Albert already has those changes. It uses "Default throw-in attack routine" and has "Force Opposition Outside" TI.
Hey,
What do you want to test in that tactic ? I mean what is the difference between that tactic and 4-2-3-1 DM Asymmetric ( ZaZ - Blue DM Tweak ) ? If it's only some of the defensive set pieces then unlikely it would make any meaningful difference. Both tactics have similar attacking throw-ins ( default "mixed" ) and corners ( near post ) routines which are the main set pieces. Am I missing something here?
You know how many factors that increase RNG are eliminated in our testing methodology, not to mention that all the teams including the AI controlled teams and the human controlled teams use the same staring elven in all matches but still it requires testing 1,824 matches to clearly see the difference. Oh, gosh... I can only imagine how many matches it requires testing if there are huge RNG factors present like changing morale, conditions and different players in the starting eleven and so on.
Based on our tests, I can say that adding the default attacking throw-ins instead of long throw-ins and adding "Force Opponent Outside" TI improves the result of any tactic including ZaZ - Blue DM. Also it's possible that removing "Play Out Of Defense" TI and adding "Distribute To Specific Team-Mate" TI might further improve the result of ZaZ - Blue DM but I need to check it and I can report you back only later today, if you want to know my opinion then waiting a bit would be the best choice.
Removing "Play Out Of Defense" TI only make sense when you also add "Distribute To Specific Team-Mate" TI because it only works properly in tandem.
I've been noticing that for some tactics it improves the result and for some tactic it doesn't if you're interested how it would work for ZaZ - Blue DM then I can check it and report you back later today.
Regarding the set pieces I suggest changing only the attacking throw-ins because it seems other set pieces work great.
We've tried adding "Force Opponent Outside" TI in different tactics and it always improved the result but it requires testing 1,824 matches to see that.