If you ever wonder what factors determine the development rate of your players then this post is for you!
I've been noticing that there're many people who wrongly think that in FM the training schedule and training settings are the key factors that determine the development rate of your players and when people don't see their players improving then they wrongly start to blame the training schedule and training settings for that.
Obviously, the training schedule and training settings have some influence on the development rate of your players but there are other factors that have much bigger impact on it than the training schedule.
It would be better to speak about the training schedule as about a tool that helps to direct the development and not to boost it.
Here are some of the factors that have a significant influence on the development rate of your players:
- The difference between "Potential Ability(PA)" and "Current Ability(CA)" of a player. The bigger the difference, the higher development rate is.
- Hidden attributes: "Professionalism" and "Ambition". The higher the attributes, the higher development rate is.
- Appearances number during a season. The higher the appearances number, the higher development is.
- How old a player. The younger, the higher development rate is.
Now, let's look at the result of our test to get a clue about how the factors listed above influence the the development rate of your players.
Test Configuration:
- The season lasts about 7 months ( 76 matches ).
- Players are split into two groups: "Group_1" and "Group_2".
- "Group_1" players participate in all 76 matches during the season.
- "Group_2" players don't participate in matches at all during the season.
- "Current Ability"(CA) of the players at the start of season is "150".
- The Age of the players at the start of the season is "21".
"Group_1" players gain +2.7 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #2 [ Professionalism = 5 / Ambition = 5 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.4 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #3 [ Professionalism = 5 / Ambition = 5 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.8 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #4 [ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +3.6 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.4 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #5 [ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +6.6 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.5 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #6 [ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +7.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.5 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #7 [ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.1 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #8 [ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +8.4 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #9 [ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +8.7 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.3 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #10 [ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.9 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #11 [ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +9.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +2.0 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #12 [ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +10.9 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +2.3 "CA" at the end the season. ------------------------------------------------------------------- TEST #13 [ Age = 28 / Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
Players in "Group_1" gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season.
Players in "Group_2" gain +0.1 "CA" at the end the season. Notice: in this test the "Age" was increased from "21" to "28" and as you can see it made a huge a difference compared to "Test #8" ( all other parameters were the same except the Age ). The CA gain decreased from "+8.4" to "+1.2".
- If you look at the "Test #1" then you'll notice that the players in "Group_1" gained only +2.7 "CA" after 7 months ( 76 matches played ) and that's a very little gain, for example, 1 Point of Acceleration attribute costs about 2.4 "CA" points for a Striker so it would take 1 season just to improve Acceleration attribute by 1 point. You may wonder why the gain was so small, that's because the difference between "PA" and "CA" was only 10 Points ( 160PA-150CA = 10 ) and "Professionalism" & "Ambition" attributes were too low ( about 5 ). So as you can see in that case it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help. The development rate still will be very small or nothing.
- If look at the development rate of the "Group_2" players then you'll notice that the "Group_2" players don't develop at all in any test. That's because in FM if players don't participate in competitive matches then they don't develop so it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help, if a player doesn't participate in competitive matches at regular basis then he won't develop, no matter how good your training schedule is.
- If look at the "Test #13" then you'll notice that increasing Age from "21" to "28" almost stopped the development. It shows that in FM players who are around age 28 don't develop at all and you can't do anything about that and it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help.
- If you look at the "Test #12" then you'll notice that it produced the highest CA gain. That was possible due a huge different difference between PA and CA ( 200 "PA" - 150 "CA" = 50 points difference ) and a very high level of "Professionalism" and "Ambition" attributes, which was "20".
- If you look at the tests then you'll notice that a very strong development happens when a player has at least a 20 points difference between PA and CA, his Professionalism & Ambition attributes are higher than "10", he is younger than 28 years old and he plays at regular basis at least 1 match per week.
ZaZ said: Anyway, when you train a player in another position, it might increase the CA by a couple of points Expand To be exact: training a player in another position doesn't directly affect his CA at all, it just increases the position rating, which varies from 1 to 20 but gaining the position rating increases the CA "price" of attributes (not the CA itself) and if a player doesn't get a CA promotion/increase after position training then some of his attributes will inevitably decrease to "fit" into the CA value that he had before the position training.
So training an additional position is like exchanging some level of the attributes for the position rating.
Middleweight165 said: Why does Current Ability change if the position value changes? I would assume the CA remained the same if you changed a players position in the editor. Why would that then mean losing potential ability points? Expand
For example, let's take a player with the following parameters:
"15" Finishing "10" Tackling
and assume that this player is capable of playing only at one position, which is "Central Striker" position so in this case "1" point of "Finishing" attribute would cost him "1.6 CA" and "1" point of "Tackling" would cost him "0.2 CA".
As you can see the "Tackling" attribute is cheap for a pure striker, it costs him only about "0.2 CA" but the "Finishing" attribute is expensive, it costs him "1.6 CA".
Now, let's calculate the required CA for having the attributes above:
Finishing "1.6 CA" x 15 = "24 CA" Tackling "0.2 CA" x 10 = "2 CA"
"24 CA" + "2 CA" = "26 CA". - So our "pure" striker must have "26 CA".
But what would happen if we decide to train our "pure" striker to be able to play "Central Defender"? In this case, if he won't get a CA increase then his attributes will drop because the cost of the "Tackling" attribute will greatly increase for him from "0.2 CA" to "1.2 CA", in other words, he won't be able to afford having "15" Finishing and "10" Tackling with his "26 CA" budget and the only way to avoid the attribute drop is getting his CA increased but if he doesn't manage to get a CA increase during that period then as I said his attributes will drop.
That's why you always must be carefully with a new/additional position training because gaining position rating always increases the CA "price" the attributes, and if a CA promotion/increase doesn't follow after a position rating gain then the attributes drop to fit into the CA.
Of course, I greatly simplified many things in the explanation above but I hope it still gives a good clue of how it works.
ZaZ said: I meant 10-20 difference in CA, given he is picking players with the most efficient attributes. If he is lacking in those more efficient, then it is definitely a lot. =) Expand
Of course, to say anything definitely we need to compare the attributes of the players in his team and the attributes of the players in Chelsea team.
Bear in mind even if the CA of his players is allocated in the most effective way across the attributes, the same might be true for Chelsea players and as we can see the average CA of Chelsea players is about 10-20 points higher so in theory such different can give a huge advantage.
I agree with @Nikko who said "it's never enough" when it comes to improving attributes of your players in FM because as seen in our attributes test https://fm-arena.com/table/13-fm22-attributes-ratings/ when you improve some attributes only just for few points then it improves the score from "39" to "63".
So I'd say in FM improving your players always makes sense until you reaches 190-200CA for every player.
ZaZ said: I think it is good enough to be champion. The point of having a good tactic (like any tactic 6.0+ in FM-Arena) is to overachieve or get better results than your team would normally allow. The difference of 10-20 points in CA isn't very high, so you should have a good chance to win if you manage your squad properly. The problem is, since you are using instant results, then you are basically skipping the management part, and that removes one of the main advantages players have over AI controlled teams. Expand
sangarios said: i was choosing the players by positional rating, so i didnt really check their CA.
fair enough, it seems i just have to play all matches Expand
Hey there,
I would not say that the difference of 10-20 points in CA isn't very high
So I'd say the difference of 10-20 points in CA is a huge difference and if you improve the CA of your players by 20 points then it'll greatly boost your results
Nikko said: even if you remove some crazy formations like only 1 defender and so on and leave only about 40 formations that can be considered as the most reliable formation then you still have like 60,466,176 different tactics to test and to get this number I took into consideration only the duties and roles but if I would considered the Team Instruction and Set Piece then I can only image how many additional zeros that number would get Expand Yeah... obviously, as I said if you want your tactic testing were useful then the only way to achieve that is analyzing its result and fiddling patters because a blind testing of random tactics is a complete waste of time.
For example, if you look at the Passing Directness slider then you'll see it has 5 levels
We've tested many different tactics with the Passing Direction slider set at the lowest level and the highest level and the difference was about 5% at the best.
Can you imagen how little difference it makes when you adjust the slider only by one notch? But from my experience it isn't a rare thing to see people adjust the Passing Direction slider only by one notch and ask to test their tactics again saying that such change turns their tactics into world-beaters.
To say honestly, this tactic doesn't bring anything that's really new to the table but since it's been getting some attention from the community ( at least few people shared their results ) we've given it a go.
I've been noticing there're some discussions going on the topic so I'd like to briefly explain the reason why the tactic testing slows down toward the end of each cycle.
First of all, here are some numbers:
There're about 1,144,066 possible formation variations in the game and if we look at the positions then every position has up to 3 duties and up to 8 roles. That gives us about 1,000,000,000,000,000 possible different tactic variations.
Also, every tactic might have up to 100 different Team Instructions and that further increases the number of possible tactic variations to some crazy number like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 or even more if take into consideration Set Pieces and Individual Player Instructions.
So to test all possible tactic variations it would required running a extreme high-end PC non-stop 24 hours per day for 6,000,000,0000,000,000 days.
As you can see any attempt to brute-force cracking the Match Engine by testing all possible tactic variations would be an absurd idea and that's why when we pick tactics for the testing we use some algorithm that helps us to filter tactics in order to exclude those tactics that are very similar to what's been tested already. Also, at this point our algorithm has learned very well the impact of different Team Instructions/Roles/Duties and it helps to avoid testing something that in theory would make a very small difference like 1%-5% or even smaller.
At this point we're gonna test a tactic only if we see that it offers "really" something new and it's also backed up with outstanding results and feedbacks by many different people.
No doubts, it'd be great to know the difference between them and if we figure out how to test it properly then I'll let you know.
If you ever wonder what factors determine the development rate of your players then this post is for you!
I've been noticing that there're many people who wrongly think that in FM the training schedule and training settings are the key factors that determine the development rate of your players and when people don't see their players improving then they wrongly start to blame the training schedule and training settings for that.
Obviously, the training schedule and training settings have some influence on the development rate of your players but there are other factors that have much bigger impact on it than the training schedule.
It would be better to speak about the training schedule as about a tool that helps to direct the development and not to boost it.
Here are some of the factors that have a significant influence on the development rate of your players:
- The difference between "Potential Ability(PA)" and "Current Ability(CA)" of a player. The bigger the difference, the higher development rate is.
- Hidden attributes: "Professionalism" and "Ambition". The higher the attributes, the higher development rate is.
- Appearances number during a season. The higher the appearances number, the higher development is.
- How old a player. The younger, the higher development rate is.
Now, let's look at the result of our test to get a clue about how the factors listed above influence the the development rate of your players.
Test Configuration:
- The season lasts about 7 months ( 76 matches ).
- Players are split into two groups: "Group_1" and "Group_2".
- "Group_1" players participate in all 76 matches during the season.
- "Group_2" players don't participate in matches at all during the season.
- "Current Ability"(CA) of the players at the start of season is "150".
- The Age of the players at the start of the season is "21".
- The best training faculties facilities.
- "Five" stars coaches in every area.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #1
[ Professionalism = 5 / Ambition = 5 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +2.7 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #2
[ Professionalism = 5 / Ambition = 5 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.4 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #3
[ Professionalism = 5 / Ambition = 5 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.8 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.2 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #4
[ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +3.6 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.4 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #5
[ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +6.6 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.5 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #6
[ Professionalism = 10 / Ambition = 10 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +7.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +0.5 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #7
[ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.1 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #8
[ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +8.4 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #9
[ Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +8.7 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.3 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #10
[ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 160 ]
"Group_1" players gain +4.9 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #11
[ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
"Group_1" players gain +9.5 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +2.0 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #12
[ Professionalism = 20 / Ambition = 20 / Potential Ability = 200 ]
"Group_1" players gain +10.9 "CA" at the end the season.
"Group_2" players gain +2.3 "CA" at the end the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TEST #13
[ Age = 28 / Professionalism = 15 / Ambition = 15 / Potential Ability = 170 ]
Players in "Group_1" gain +1.2 "CA" at the end the season.
Players in "Group_2" gain +0.1 "CA" at the end the season.
Notice: in this test the "Age" was increased from "21" to "28" and as you can see it made a huge a difference compared to "Test #8" ( all other parameters were the same except the Age ). The CA gain decreased from "+8.4" to "+1.2".
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusions & Observations
- If you look at the "Test #1" then you'll notice that the players in "Group_1" gained only +2.7 "CA" after 7 months ( 76 matches played ) and that's a very little gain, for example, 1 Point of Acceleration attribute costs about 2.4 "CA" points for a Striker so it would take 1 season just to improve Acceleration attribute by 1 point. You may wonder why the gain was so small, that's because the difference between "PA" and "CA" was only 10 Points ( 160PA-150CA = 10 ) and "Professionalism" & "Ambition" attributes were too low ( about 5 ). So as you can see in that case it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help. The development rate still will be very small or nothing.
- If look at the development rate of the "Group_2" players then you'll notice that the "Group_2" players don't develop at all in any test. That's because in FM if players don't participate in competitive matches then they don't develop so it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help, if a player doesn't participate in competitive matches at regular basis then he won't develop, no matter how good your training schedule is.
- If look at the "Test #13" then you'll notice that increasing Age from "21" to "28" almost stopped the development. It shows that in FM players who are around age 28 don't develop at all and you can't do anything about that and it doesn't matter whether you have the best training schedule, perfect coaches and training facilities - it won't help.
- If you look at the "Test #12" then you'll notice that it produced the highest CA gain. That was possible due a huge different difference between PA and CA ( 200 "PA" - 150 "CA" = 50 points difference ) and a very high level of "Professionalism" and "Ambition" attributes, which was "20".
- If you look at the tests then you'll notice that a very strong development happens when a player has at least a 20 points difference between PA and CA, his Professionalism & Ambition attributes are higher than "10", he is younger than 28 years old and he plays at regular basis at least 1 match per week.
- The difference between "Potential Ability" and "Current Ability"
- Hidden Attributes: "Professionalism" and "Ambition"
- Appearances number
- Age
I can say that the factors above have much bigger impact than the training
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2671-development-rate-and-training/
To be exact: training a player in another position doesn't directly affect his CA at all, it just increases the position rating, which varies from 1 to 20 but gaining the position rating increases the CA "price" of attributes (not the CA itself) and if a player doesn't get a CA promotion/increase after position training then some of his attributes will inevitably decrease to "fit" into the CA value that he had before the position training.
So training an additional position is like exchanging some level of the attributes for the position rating.
For example, let's take a player with the following parameters:
"15" Finishing
"10" Tackling
and assume that this player is capable of playing only at one position, which is "Central Striker" position so in this case "1" point of "Finishing" attribute would cost him "1.6 CA" and "1" point of "Tackling" would cost him "0.2 CA".
As you can see the "Tackling" attribute is cheap for a pure striker, it costs him only about "0.2 CA" but the "Finishing" attribute is expensive, it costs him "1.6 CA".
Now, let's calculate the required CA for having the attributes above:
Finishing "1.6 CA" x 15 = "24 CA"
Tackling "0.2 CA" x 10 = "2 CA"
"24 CA" + "2 CA" = "26 CA". - So our "pure" striker must have "26 CA".
But what would happen if we decide to train our "pure" striker to be able to play "Central Defender"? In this case, if he won't get a CA increase then his attributes will drop because the cost of the "Tackling" attribute will greatly increase for him from "0.2 CA" to "1.2 CA", in other words, he won't be able to afford having "15" Finishing and "10" Tackling with his "26 CA" budget and the only way to avoid the attribute drop is getting his CA increased but if he doesn't manage to get a CA increase during that period then as I said his attributes will drop.
That's why you always must be carefully with a new/additional position training because gaining position rating always increases the CA "price" the attributes, and if a CA promotion/increase doesn't follow after a position rating gain then the attributes drop to fit into the CA.
Of course, I greatly simplified many things in the explanation above but I hope it still gives a good clue of how it works.
We've tested them and found that it's not worth bothering
Of course, to say anything definitely we need to compare the attributes of the players in his team and the attributes of the players in Chelsea team.
Bear in mind even if the CA of his players is allocated in the most effective way across the attributes, the same might be true for Chelsea players and as we can see the average CA of Chelsea players is about 10-20 points higher so in theory such different can give a huge advantage.
I agree with @Nikko who said "it's never enough" when it comes to improving attributes of your players in FM because as seen in our attributes test https://fm-arena.com/table/13-fm22-attributes-ratings/ when you improve some attributes only just for few points then it improves the score from "39" to "63".
So I'd say in FM improving your players always makes sense until you reaches 190-200CA for every player.
sangarios said: i was choosing the players by positional rating, so i didnt really check their CA.
fair enough, it seems i just have to play all matches
Hey there,
I would not say that the difference of 10-20 points in CA isn't very high
Here's a simple example:
With the default attributes the tactic gets "63" score - https://fm-arena.com/tactic/1697-default-attributes/
But when we decrease "Acceleration" by 4 points across the positions then the CA also decreases only by 5-6 points but the score drops from "63" to "39" https://fm-arena.com/tactic/1700-acceleration-attribute-has-been-decreased-by-4-points-across-all-the-positions/
So I'd say the difference of 10-20 points in CA is a huge difference and if you improve the CA of your players by 20 points then it'll greatly boost your results
We've added "Download" text to the text of the button. I hope it should be very clear from now on.
Yeah... obviously, as I said if you want your tactic testing were useful then the only way to achieve that is analyzing its result and fiddling patters because a blind testing of random tactics is a complete waste of time.
For example, if you look at the Passing Directness slider then you'll see it has 5 levels
We've tested many different tactics with the Passing Direction slider set at the lowest level and the highest level and the difference was about 5% at the best.
Can you imagen how little difference it makes when you adjust the slider only by one notch? But from my experience it isn't a rare thing to see people adjust the Passing Direction slider only by one notch and ask to test their tactics again saying that such change turns their tactics into world-beaters.
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/2909-433-haaland-narrow-rip/
I've been noticing there're some discussions going on the topic so I'd like to briefly explain the reason why the tactic testing slows down toward the end of each cycle.
First of all, here are some numbers:
There're about 1,144,066 possible formation variations in the game and if we look at the positions then every position has up to 3 duties and up to 8 roles. That gives us about 1,000,000,000,000,000 possible different tactic variations.
Also, every tactic might have up to 100 different Team Instructions and that further increases the number of possible tactic variations to some crazy number like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 or even more if take into consideration Set Pieces and Individual Player Instructions.
So to test all possible tactic variations it would required running a extreme high-end PC non-stop 24 hours per day for 6,000,000,0000,000,000 days.
As you can see any attempt to brute-force cracking the Match Engine by testing all possible tactic variations would be an absurd idea and that's why when we pick tactics for the testing we use some algorithm that helps us to filter tactics in order to exclude those tactics that are very similar to what's been tested already. Also, at this point our algorithm has learned very well the impact of different Team Instructions/Roles/Duties and it helps to avoid testing something that in theory would make a very small difference like 1%-5% or even smaller.
At this point we're gonna test a tactic only if we see that it offers "really" something new and it's also backed up with outstanding results and feedbacks by many different people.
I hope this clears the situation a bit.
Cheers.
Honestly, it's pretty much what has been said already in this thread and some other threads. I really don't have anything important to add to that.
Hi,
I've edited the post. Please note, only constructive criticism is welcome here.
Thanks.
Hi,
I've edited the post. Please note, only constructive criticism is welcome here.
Thanks.
The thread name and description must be in English.
Thanks.
Please, also add a screenshot of the league table at the end of the season and a screenshot of the team media prediction before the season.
Thank you.
You should post your own result with the tactic.
Thank you.
You should post your own result with the tactic.
Thank you.
Please, post full season result.
Thank you.