dzek said: This sounds more logical. I speak with Jack about differences between “Run At Defence” and “Dribble More” and which positions get affected and this is his reply.
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One thing i did learn in my life is when someone say on "IT field" : "could" means that he doesn't know for sure I mean it clear that not even them knows what's going on anymore at this point.
Why the hell they removed the option 1-20 from those stuff only gods knows.
Only "Defend" duties and combinations of Role + Duty that aren't eligible for "Dribble More" PI aren't affected by "Run At Defense" in all other cases "Run At Defense" adds "Dribble More" PI. Expand
Pretty sure about IWB/WB, literally when you add the option (dribble more) they start to increase their dribble attemption like alot. 60-100 (maybe was that ratio). Like cross less often etc. Tbh i am still not sure about that "pass shorter TI" interact with the PI that way. For me is gonna work if you put the TI on standard. But about that i am no sure. Is just my feeling, so i can trust or not what you saw from the devs
Lapidus said: I remember someone from the game devs explained it on the SI forum.
With "Take More Risk" PI you encourage your players pass into space, there'll be a lot trough balls passes in space
With "Take Less Risk" you encourage your players pass into feet, there'll be a few trough balls passes in space.
"Short Passes" or "Direct Passes" determines at what distance you encourage your player to make passes.
With "Short Passes" they'll be look for nearby teammates by still even with short distance there's an option how to pass: into feet or into space. Expand
That's really nice, so it's about more of the distance you start the pass! Thanks for the explanation
So reading descriptions in FM to understand how things work is just waste of time.
The only way to find out is asking FM developers on the official SI forum or testing it by yourself.
I'm more that sure that "Pass Into Space" TI and "Take More Risk" PI do 99% the same thing.
It's obvious to me that "Pass Into Space" TI adds "Take More Risk" PI to all eligible positions and it could be it also add "Get Further Forward" PI ( but for the second I'm not sure ) Expand
That interisting never though about Get Further forward tbh. For me is take more risk is pass more direct. Or maybe is to "maximize" that modifier that you were talking about?
I did test all of those stuff, but since i went to build possession tactics, stuff are even more strange. If i do put dribble less as TI it will overdrive the passive PI (dribble more) of IW as well? That's why i was affascineted about those WMs results.
I hope for that FM25 they just gonna build everything from 0 because like that is quite stupid
dzek said: I think there is a difference because as I said “Take More Risks” instruct players to play low percentage passes AND through balls.
To be more clear of the difference if you add “Take More Risks” to your GK, he will not try through balls but he will try low percentage passes to start a counter attack if his role is SK. I don't know about GK role but it maybe does the same.
I just saw the number of goals to increased to be honest. Expand
Idk,check those options with comprensive highlights, you will understand it better.
Goals doesn't mean anything unfortunaly . If the gameplay was totaly different like you do believe ,imho we would'have totaly different numbers from the 442 i did posted.
This is my opinion and i won't force into none, but imho the only thing that matter in here, is the WM and i hope it is because i am using it for the pep recreation :P (since is the only role, that allow me to put dribble less)
dzek said: "Pass Into Space" and "Take More Risks" are not the same.
Pass Into Space - you tell your players to pass into space and NOT in their feet. This doesn't mean it's through ball but it could be.
Take More Risks - you tell your players to play riskier passes ANYWHERE on the pitch and to try through balls in more advanced areas of the pitch. This does not increase the number of passes at all but they tend to prefer the riskier ones. I also think it slightly increases dribbling. Expand
That's what pass into space mean, i mean literally it means that... You can try to add PI take more risk and Pass into space, you will notice 0 changes! We already talked about that in the past and i've even tested here all those stuff.
You will understand those stuff, if you build a tactic and start to play a bit on comprensive. The only thing i didn't yet checked is play out of defence (that to me yet doing nothing)
I am mean you saw with your eyes, that now your players with that setup are playing in a different way then before? talking about much directness PI with Shorter passing TI. Will check it in a bit, because if it does is quite nice.
Imagine "Shorter Passing" is the number 7 and "Standard Passing" is the number 10 in a scale of 1-20.
Let's say you set your team to play on shorter passing.. and you set your DMs to play more direct passing on PIs..
Then your DMs will play more direct THAN the rest of your team which means their passing will increase somewhere between 7-10 on the scale. Maybe 8 or 9.
Now, with shorter passing, players TEND to keep possession and patiently pass the ball horizontally until they find a gap to exploit. With a higher tempo you increase your players' need to move the ball forward and shorten the pass for the sake of it, but they continue to do so because of the shorter passing TI. As "Pass Into Space" works wonders in this match engine then I thought increasing the passing directness in PIs would help "Pass Into Space" more and I saw this from my testing that my players especially AF scoring 15-20+ more goals than before. Expand
Your way sound clear. But pass into space isn't basically : Play more direct and take more risk ?
To me doesn't work like that,but really to me all those stuff are piled in a senseless way. Why they didn't put something like before where you could choose your modifiers?
I mean IAs works that way, i don't understand why i should go "maybe it is that "
So happy about that, so means i am not totaly crazy to play it on the pep recreation
But as I said I'm 100% sure that WMs on Support and Attack duties are affected by "Run At Defense" and on "Defend" Duty they aren't
I know that, but when a SI staff member say something like that, what can i say? LET'S TEST IT!
One thing i did learn in my life is when someone say on "IT field" : "could" means that he doesn't know for sure
I mean it clear that not even them knows what's going on anymore at this point.
Why the hell they removed the option 1-20 from those stuff only gods knows.
Only "Defend" duties and combinations of Role + Duty that aren't eligible for "Dribble More" PI aren't affected by "Run At Defense" in all other cases "Run At Defense" adds "Dribble More" PI.
Pretty sure about IWB/WB, literally when you add the option (dribble more) they start to increase their dribble attemption like alot. 60-100 (maybe was that ratio).
Like cross less often etc. Tbh i am still not sure about that "pass shorter TI" interact with the PI that way. For me is gonna work if you put the TI on standard. But about that i am no sure. Is just my feeling, so i can trust or not what you saw from the devs
-^
I am just not 100% sure why DL/DR are not getting it. But not even central are so maybe "defence" zone won't get it from Run at Defence
Added Get futher foward on WMs.
Simple Stay wider on WMs, all roles with take more risk (to check comparision) and that take at ease on IWBs.
At that point you want IW
I am sure is something like that :
Only God knows.
16/07 15:00 GMT+2
With "Take More Risk" PI you encourage your players pass into space, there'll be a lot trough balls passes in space
With "Take Less Risk" you encourage your players pass into feet, there'll be a few trough balls passes in space.
"Short Passes" or "Direct Passes" determines at what distance you encourage your player to make passes.
With "Short Passes" they'll be look for nearby teammates by still even with short distance there's an option how to pass: into feet or into space.
That's really nice, so it's about more of the distance you start the pass! Thanks for the explanation
Will check it out, really curious about that.
Because you need speficic players and stuff to make it work. If you test with players with 10 passing is different :P
So reading descriptions in FM to understand how things work is just waste of time.
The only way to find out is asking FM developers on the official SI forum or testing it by yourself.
I'm more that sure that "Pass Into Space" TI and "Take More Risk" PI do 99% the same thing.
It's obvious to me that "Pass Into Space" TI adds "Take More Risk" PI to all eligible positions and it could be it also add "Get Further Forward" PI ( but for the second I'm not sure )
That interisting never though about Get Further forward tbh. For me is take more risk is pass more direct. Or maybe is to "maximize" that modifier that you were talking about?
I did test all of those stuff, but since i went to build possession tactics, stuff are even more strange.
If i do put dribble less as TI it will overdrive the passive PI (dribble more) of IW as well?
That's why i was affascineted about those WMs results.
I hope for that FM25 they just gonna build everything from 0 because like that is quite stupid
If you mean on test league, it's just useless but i did recreated Sarri/De Zerbi. you can find on recreation zone :
https://fm-arena.com/thread/5850-recreation-lab/
To be more clear of the difference if you add “Take More Risks” to your GK, he will not try through balls but he will try low percentage passes to start a counter attack if his role is SK. I don't know about GK role but it maybe does the same.
I just saw the number of goals to increased to be honest.
Idk,check those options with comprensive highlights, you will understand it better.
Goals doesn't mean anything unfortunaly
This is my opinion and i won't force into none, but imho the only thing that matter in here, is the WM and i hope it is because i am using it for the pep recreation :P (since is the only role, that allow me to put dribble less)
Pass Into Space - you tell your players to pass into space and NOT in their feet. This doesn't mean it's through ball but it could be.
Take More Risks - you tell your players to play riskier passes ANYWHERE on the pitch and to try through balls in more advanced areas of the pitch. This does not increase the number of passes at all but they tend to prefer the riskier ones. I also think it slightly increases dribbling.
That's what pass into space mean, i mean literally it means that... You can try to add PI take more risk and Pass into space, you will notice 0 changes! We already talked about that in the past and i've even tested here all those stuff.
You will understand those stuff, if you build a tactic and start to play a bit on comprensive.
The only thing i didn't yet checked is play out of defence (that to me yet doing nothing)
I am mean you saw with your eyes, that now your players with that setup are playing in a different way then before? talking about much directness PI with Shorter passing TI. Will check it in a bit, because if it does is quite nice.
Imagine "Shorter Passing" is the number 7 and "Standard Passing" is the number 10 in a scale of 1-20.
Let's say you set your team to play on shorter passing..
and you set your DMs to play more direct passing on PIs..
Then your DMs will play more direct THAN the rest of your team which means their passing will increase somewhere between 7-10 on the scale. Maybe 8 or 9.
Now, with shorter passing, players TEND to keep possession and patiently pass the ball horizontally until they find a gap to exploit. With a higher tempo you increase your players' need to move the ball forward and shorten the pass for the sake of it, but they continue to do so because of the shorter passing TI. As "Pass Into Space" works wonders in this match engine then I thought increasing the passing directness in PIs would help "Pass Into Space" more and I saw this from my testing that my players especially AF scoring 15-20+ more goals than before.
Your way sound clear. But pass into space isn't basically : Play more direct and take more risk ?
To me doesn't work like that,but really to me all those stuff are piled in a senseless way.
Why they didn't put something like before where you could choose your modifiers?
I mean IAs works that way, i don't understand why i should go "maybe it is that