pixar said: I think you are right. As far as I can see in this post, the jump values of the forwards in the test league are 9.
Expand
You can't focus striker on this test league but generally if you check around my test even a minus "tweak" can make a difference of 8 + points and as @Blau said you need even the right "push" with the rng wave as well. Imagine that with the 32221 i made for spurs i did have totaly dominated EPL for 3 years consecutive and the players are quite bad as well for their level and the tactic scored 46.
As Zippo said many times a 48+ score tactic can lead you pretty well in the game.
So for this kind of test is just better to focus one of your CBs,maybe the Arena's staff made it like that because in general in game a Central Back have better overall stats compared to strikers.
I am playing some 3atb tactic,since i am waiting for this famous patch. I've re-worked defensive set pieces and trown-in (imho this way should be safer but i will retest them once the patch is released)
Plus i've used OIs (Position) for all the season :
I don't know if they make any difference but it feels like solid.
About training i've used @ZaZ training schedule: It feels like cheating because you can rotate your players totaly smoother and feels like you are under "freeze", but do you believe it can be improved? or Tweaked i don't know, it felt like on the beginning the team struggled a bit but holy potato on febraury they started to kick in like no stop.
I don't know if they training influece the game that much or not just giving my feedback, personally i would've putted in double intensity (i don't know if that help or not). But do you think if you change the schedule routine something like "bad shape" gonna happen? Maybe later on i will test them more in depth but your schedule routine is tier 1 hands off, gonna use it till the patch come out.
Here is the 3rd season i did with that tactic, if someone wanna try it out some feedback would be great since i do love this kind of shape.
Nop, i did my self but if you read up those post above you will see that i've missunderstood the interaction between the OI's and TI/PI at the moment i am testing :
But i will invest a bit more time once the last patch is released doing it on "tryhard" way is a bit useless to be honest... And i should even ask to devs how some stuff interact to be 100% sure about it, so it's long way to maximize those, i can say that with those OI's at the moment my game is smoother and i am domination on 2nd year. I even need to understand if the shape matters etcetc.
If it didn't make any difference if you have it ON/OFF for every position then what's the point in testing for every single position? Expand
Because you might won't on every role to get MT but just some specifical role,like you won't every role to got hard tackle but you might want lvl 1, like to my perfect scenario, IF AF (strikers) should just go lvl 1 "stay on feet then" and press defenders. I would like to Mark Tigher only their striker, not every role. Imho that's make difference(but i might be wrong like always about those stuff). I want to go lvl 3 on their DM/CM line to break their building-up,that's help alot when you are the underdog and on away games on this M.E. on previous fms i couldn't even careless about many stuff was just to interact with the I.A. and that's perfectly why i do like more FM23 compared to the previous version, because at least is giving some challenge.
And maybe the difference between PI and OI's is you are not saying to any specific guy to mark or do stuff, you want just that position to be managed that way. I tried the PI time ago and things went totaly nuts so i let it go.
Let's imagine you set OIs using "Player" OIs on Ivan Toney(Striker) but he got substituted early in the match which means the OIs you set on Ivan Toney won't be applied to the player who took his place.
To avoid that you can set OIs on the striker position instead of a player. So no matter who plays on the striker position will have the OIs you set. Expand
Nono, i've got what you said pretty fine now,i just didn't understand how ois were displaying before.. But, if do change on player side for example : I tend to don't even bother when i play to focus their DM (central one) because usually is a bwm or dm. For example there is a KDB playing as RPM/Regista on DM (Basically DM CM CM) and for that game i want to focus him as well.. those Player OIs overdrive Position OIs just for that game? The more i go depth in this game the more things i am discovering... it's crazy
For example using something soft as Position OIs:
And we missed only 2 tackles,because i am doing something like that(after you opened my brain again) :
Btw if you want we can test position OIs (no clue how to call them)after a while... I'll try to collect more data possible once the patch is released.
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific player, which means this player can change its position during the next match but the OIs you set should "stick" to him regardless of the position his is playing in.
Here's a tooltip from the game:
This approach of setting OIs is quite time consuming and it requires doing before every match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific position instead of specific player. It can be set only once and it should apply against every opponent. No need to set it before every match. Expand
Yeye i got it now, i was doing it all the time because i was sure was something like you need to import... But still i don't understand how it works if you don't select for example trigger press on OI but you have on TI.. I really must know how the interaction work, totaly happy that Ois overdrive TI so you can actually select where they can kill and were you won't.
Zippo said: It's been working like that since it was introduced. No changes to it this year.
Btw, if you have doubts about some game mechanics then I find the best way to clear the doubts is asking the devs on the official forum. They're really nice guys and will be glad to answer your question.
As far as I know OIs take priority over TIs and PIs, which means if your tactic doesn't have "Get Stuck In" TI and your players don't have "Tackle Harder" PI but your OIs tell them to "Tackle Hard" every opposition player then you can expect seeing your players use "Tackle Harder" against every opposition player in matches.
Let's image that the right opposition winger has his right foot as the strongest foot and if you set against him "Show Onto Weaker" foot OI then your player will try to block his way down the right flank and force him to "Cut Inside" from the flank.
You really need to be careful with that because most of time he'll be having a free way from the flank to the box as your player should block his way down the flank if his left foot isn't that bad for example, "Fairly Strong" rating then he can easily exploits that free way to the box.
So as you can see it isn't that easy to decided should you apply "Show Onto Weaker" or not.
Sorry, I didn't get that. Expand Step 1 : I do select the oi's how i do want them(now i will try something in deepth because i didn't know that it would overdrive even the TI!)
Step 2 : As you can see there is nothing there.
Step 3 : I do select them all
Step 4 : I do press the left icon (Position one) and is importing the istruction into it. So, doing that is kinda useless because i did select the Ois i want onto the Oppostion Istructions menu'? And how do check if it working or not?
About the weaker foot was just an example, but like that i am saying to don't trigger press the rest of the opponents team which might not good
So from the tons of test we did i could say that ever green could be something like that: (just an example)
Because i want them to trigger press most of time but on some roles i want them to go lvl 2 on DMs lvl 3 and dc's easy.
Maybe it's not like importing but just showing what's going onto the position? Holy banana and i was doing it every game? Gonna check SI forum... that's made me really curious
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting the OIs specifically against your next opponents. it resets before each match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting the OIs "in general", it will apply against every opponent. It doesn't reset each time and you can set it only once and it should apply against each opponent. Expand
And how do i check if it's working because i am pretty sure that they did change this year and didn't make "automatically working" and you need select it every game but i might be wrong, but it's strange that once i click "select position" after selected all the players is importing them... am i missing something?
Beside that, if that's is working even tho you can't "see" that we can make more in-depth test about even which roles need tackle harder etc...
I mean i did selected "trigger press" but how is interectating with the TI? Logically would be just fine to put "weak foot" seem the more logical but maybe ain't working this way as well. We said before that stuck-in is level 3 and just tackle harder is lvl 2 and lvl 1 is stay on feet? But TI is overwriting even those stuff? And how do it interact with PI? If i don't preselect Trigger press from OIs is overwriting the TI or TI has always the most prioriy?
Just set them in the 'Opposition Instruction' section and you're good to go.
Expand
Don't you need to select them every game? that's how i do that i do preselect on position and every game before game starting i do select all the enemy team and click on position so it put the ois in. If there is an option to make it automatically would be faster to test them, that's why i did ask how you did that
00mrtosspot said: what do you reckon is the right type of player for the BWM? Is physicality and tackling key, just a destroyer/disrupter, or could i use someone with a bit more finesse seeing we want to control the game? and also have you tried with a different role? could a DLP or Halfbeck work well? Like a Bousqete/Rodri/Carrick/Brozovic type player. Expand
from what i've seen so far in-game from the bwm you rather want him to "win the ball back" but i've seen they do alot of assist as well and sometimes some goals... it worked great with Pellegrini or Udinese players (don't remind their names atm) really good with Tomáš Souček.
I would follow keylights and the rest is just a plus that you might like.
Yup, but the game play got better overall, working on those stuff but it will get time to reach the best output.
The Winter Patch ( 23.3.0 ) Live Now - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/573744-fm23-main-data-update-now-live/
Our current plan is at first to re-test all tactics from the Hall Of Fame - https://fm-arena.com/table/fm23-hall-of-fame/
What's next after retesting all tactics from Hall of Fame? Honestly, we haven't decided yet. Your suggestions are welcome.
Cheers.
That's totaly cool to me, i wanted to suggest to test from Hall of Fame as well. So we can check what happened on "best shape" from previous M.E.
why don't you try? i am sure it does but i might be wrong
You can't focus striker on this test league
Imagine that with the 32221 i made for spurs i did have totaly dominated EPL for 3 years consecutive and the players are quite bad as well for their level and the tactic scored 46.
As Zippo said many times a 48+ score tactic can lead you pretty well in the game.
So for this kind of test is just better to focus one of your CBs,maybe the Arena's staff made it like that because in general in game a Central Back have better overall stats compared to strikers.
CM on su (without moving into Channels) last one till patcherino come out.
Added Hold Position on BWMs
Added Dribble more on CBs
Let's check out if sp's are making worst then previous then
BWM without hold position
CBs without dribble more
I am playing some 3atb tactic,since i am waiting for this famous patch. I've re-worked defensive set pieces and trown-in (imho this way should be safer but i will retest them once the patch is released)
Plus i've used OIs (Position) for all the season :
I don't know if they make any difference but it feels like solid.
About training i've used @ZaZ training schedule:
It feels like cheating because you can rotate your players totaly smoother and feels like you are under "freeze", but do you believe it can be improved? or Tweaked i don't know, it felt like on the beginning the team struggled a bit but holy potato on febraury they started to kick in like no stop.
I don't know if they training influece the game that much or not just giving my feedback, personally i would've putted in double intensity (i don't know if that help or not). But do you think if you change the schedule routine something like "bad shape" gonna happen? Maybe later on i will test them more in depth but your schedule routine is tier 1 hands off, gonna use it till the patch come out.
Here is the 3rd season i did with that tactic, if someone wanna try it out some feedback would be great since i do love this kind of shape.
I am just curious if it can score 48-50..
Have fun ^^
So i should use put it for the entire season? and setuping like that ?
I've tested Cadoni's and Cae's but i want to test even yours, if that is your definitive i will give it a go to my 3rd year Spurs game
Nop, i did my self but if you read up those post above you will see that i've missunderstood the interaction between the OI's and TI/PI at the moment i am testing :
But i will invest a bit more time once the last patch is released doing it on "tryhard" way is a bit useless to be honest... And i should even ask to devs how some stuff interact to be 100% sure about it, so it's long way to maximize those, i can say that with those OI's at the moment my game is smoother and i am domination on 2nd year. I even need to understand if the shape matters etcetc.
If it didn't make any difference if you have it ON/OFF for every position then what's the point in testing for every single position?
Because you might won't on every role to get MT but just some specifical role,like you won't every role to got hard tackle but you might want lvl 1, like to my perfect scenario, IF AF (strikers) should just go lvl 1 "stay on feet then" and press defenders.
I would like to Mark Tigher only their striker, not every role. Imho that's make difference(but i might be wrong like always about those stuff).
I want to go lvl 3 on their DM/CM line to break their building-up,that's help alot when you are the underdog and on away games on this M.E. on previous fms i couldn't even careless about many stuff was just to interact with the I.A. and that's perfectly why i do like more FM23 compared to the previous version, because at least is giving some challenge.
And maybe the difference between PI and OI's is you are not saying to any specific guy to mark or do stuff, you want just that position to be managed that way.
I tried the PI time ago and things went totaly nuts so i let it go.
Let's imagine you set OIs using "Player" OIs on Ivan Toney(Striker) but he got substituted early in the match which means the OIs you set on Ivan Toney won't be applied to the player who took his place.
To avoid that you can set OIs on the striker position instead of a player. So no matter who plays on the striker position will have the OIs you set.
Nono, i've got what you said pretty fine now,i just didn't understand how ois were displaying before..
But, if do change on player side for example : I tend to don't even bother when i play to focus their DM (central one) because usually is a bwm or dm.
For example there is a KDB playing as RPM/Regista on DM (Basically DM CM CM) and for that game i want to focus him as well.. those Player OIs overdrive Position OIs just for that game? The more i go depth in this game the more things i am discovering... it's crazy
For example using something soft as Position OIs:
And we missed only 2 tackles,because i am doing something like that(after you opened my brain again) :
Btw if you want we can test position OIs (no clue how to call them)after a while... I'll try to collect more data possible once the patch is released.
Thanks again for your vital support.
There're 2 ways of settings OIs:
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific player, which means this player can change its position during the next match but the OIs you set should "stick" to him regardless of the position his is playing in.
Here's a tooltip from the game:
This approach of setting OIs is quite time consuming and it requires doing before every match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting OIs on a specific position instead of specific player. It can be set only once and it should apply against every opponent. No need to set it before every match.
Yeye i got it now, i was doing it all the time because i was sure was something like you need to import...
But still i don't understand how it works if you don't select for example trigger press on OI but you have on TI.. I really must know how the interaction work, totaly happy that Ois overdrive TI so you can actually select where they can kill and were you won't.
Btw, if you have doubts about some game mechanics then I find the best way to clear the doubts is asking the devs on the official forum. They're really nice guys and will be glad to answer your question.
As far as I know OIs take priority over TIs and PIs, which means if your tactic doesn't have "Get Stuck In" TI and your players don't have "Tackle Harder" PI but your OIs tell them to "Tackle Hard" every opposition player then you can expect seeing your players use "Tackle Harder" against every opposition player in matches.
Let's image that the right opposition winger has his right foot as the strongest foot and if you set against him "Show Onto Weaker" foot OI then your player will try to block his way down the right flank and force him to "Cut Inside" from the flank.
You really need to be careful with that because most of time he'll be having a free way from the flank to the box as your player should block his way down the flank if his left foot isn't that bad for example, "Fairly Strong" rating then he can easily exploits that free way to the box.
So as you can see it isn't that easy to decided should you apply "Show Onto Weaker" or not.
Sorry, I didn't get that.
Step 1 : I do select the oi's how i do want them(now i will try something in deepth because i didn't know that it would overdrive even the TI!)
Step 2 :
As you can see there is nothing there.
Step 3 :
I do select them all
Step 4 :
I do press the left icon (Position one) and is importing the istruction into it.
So, doing that is kinda useless because i did select the Ois i want onto the Oppostion Istructions menu'? And how do check if it working or not?
About the weaker foot was just an example, but like that i am saying to don't trigger press the rest of the opponents team which might not good
So from the tons of test we did i could say that ever green could be something like that: (just an example)
Because i want them to trigger press most of time but on some roles i want them to go lvl 2 on DMs lvl 3 and dc's easy.
Maybe it's not like importing but just showing what's going onto the position? Holy banana and i was doing it every game? Gonna check SI forum... that's made me really curious
1) "Players" menu - it allows you setting the OIs specifically against your next opponents. it resets before each match.
2) "Position" menu - it allows you setting the OIs "in general", it will apply against every opponent. It doesn't reset each time and you can set it only once and it should apply against each opponent.
And how do i check if it's working because i am pretty sure that they did change this year and didn't make "automatically working" and you need select it every game but i might be wrong, but it's strange that once i click "select position" after selected all the players is importing them... am i missing something?
Beside that, if that's is working even tho you can't "see" that we can make more in-depth test about even which roles need tackle harder etc...
I mean i did selected "trigger press" but how is interectating with the TI?
Logically would be just fine to put "weak foot" seem the more logical but maybe ain't working this way as well.
We said before that stuck-in is level 3 and just tackle harder is lvl 2 and lvl 1 is stay on feet?
But TI is overwriting even those stuff? And how do it interact with PI?
If i don't preselect Trigger press from OIs is overwriting the TI or TI has always the most prioriy?
Just set them in the 'Opposition Instruction' section and you're good to go.
Don't you need to select them every game? that's how i do that i do preselect on position and every game before game starting i do select all the enemy team and click on position so it put the ois in.
If there is an option to make it automatically would be faster to test them, that's why i did ask how you did that
how you did that? there is a possibility to test oi's?
there is not a "best" tactic or stuff like that, or you decide to follow the meta or you adapt what you like to see to your team.
from what i've seen so far in-game from the bwm you rather want him to "win the ball back" but i've seen they do alot of assist as well and sometimes some goals... it worked great with Pellegrini or Udinese players (don't remind their names atm) really good with Tomáš Souček.
I would follow keylights and the rest is just a plus that you might like.