Yes. These files seem to be able to be used across games. Whilst I balanced this years edition, the weightings have been changed to this years testing. I suspect they will be fine for last years game but I haven't tested it. Let us know how it goes. At some stage I intend to complete last years save.
I am not a fan of doing a heap of work for nothing. If you were going to retest, maybe only the top 10 or 20 tactics to see how it impacted. I am sure we will be more interested when the first update comes out. I haven't been able to find out when they usually do it. Have you got info on the likely timeframe?
saycarramrod said: If you simply drop the file in the Ratings folder, you can simply click "Rating" in Genie Scout and the file will be there to select. No need to Edit and save as your own file name. Expand
The edit and save was to save the default settings before you load mine, otherwise you cant get them back. I have a copy so can make it available if anyone forgets and wants it.
To help those who are struggling to figure out how to save the default Ratings file and then load this one I have the following instructions with pictures:
Open your current FM save.
Download FM Genie Scout if you don't already have it. I recommend the g version which requires a small donation. I like to keep such helpful tools going.
Make sure you have downloaded my Ratings file called MDW22.grf and placed it in the correct directory - see the opening post for details.
Open Genie Scout and load your game into the tool.
Open up Edit Player Ratings.
A dialogue box will open up with the ratings information. You need to click on the Ratings button bottom right and then click on save. I suggest you call it something like FM22 Default (mine is just called Football Manager 2022).
Then load my rating file.
Now your Genie Scout should show ratings as per my calculations.
Rince said: In FM21 there was some guy on Korean FM forum that won EPL with only 1 CA players. He did a test and set all the "unimportant" attributes ( according to the attributes rating table ) to 1 and few important to 20 and he easily won the EPL. He did a huge post about it on the Korean FM forum. So the attributes ratings table is real deal.
I've been picking players with accordance to the attributes rating table for long time and it's been working like a charm to me. Expand
I do recall that experiment. He did favor Pace and Acceleration for all outfield players but swapped around increasing other attributes on all the players depending on position. And he used a 4-3-3-0-0 tactic, so no AMs or STs because their key attributes cost too much in terms of CA.
I am not a fan of changing player attributes to win games. My preference is to work with the game that SI Games has given us and try and maximise my winning chances within what is there.
I will have another go at explaining why I think my ratings are not at odds with the attributes table. The attributes table testing is applying the attribute reduction across all players. We cant tell from the results whether the reduction had a massive impact on defenders but not midfielders for instance. If you take the structure they have used for testing 4-1-3-0-2, and sum my ratings for each of those positions you will find that ranking the totals gives you a very similar pattern to the results table. However the important attributes by position vary.
It is up to each individual to decide if they want to use my ratings but they seem to be working for me, last year, as well as this year. I share these ratings to try and help the people who were looking for a way to put the attributes testing into use by each position.
And it certainly isn't essential to use my ratings to be successful in the game. Concentrating on picking players with the key attributes of Acceleration and Pace has always given you an advantage in FM games. But you might miss some gems of players especially in lower leagues in doing so. These are the ones I am interested in.
Wigo said: hey! amazing stuff! Just one question... in FM-ARENA testing table it shows that some attributes has very less impact like "Off the ball" or "Finishing" but in that Fmscout attributes table it shows that these attributes actualy very important for striker role... so where is the truth? Expand
It is somewhere in between. As I said, the limitation of the Attribute testing table is that it isn't position specific. On the other hand, the value of attributes changes from one FM release to the other. So I have attempted to blend these to get to a result that we can all use.
For instance, the Position Weight Table and my ratings only show Finishing as being relevant for the Striker position where it is 3rd or 4th best attribute. Whereas Acceleration and Pace are relevant to almost all positions and mainly top two for most positions.
Assuming that the attributes table results are the same for all positions is not correct. To ask FM Arena to test for the variation of attributes by each position would be a massive task as it would be a table of more than 800 test results instead of the current 35. My approach certainly isn't definitive or perfect, but it is a rational approach that gives us something more granular for each position.
And the next question on this subject that comes up a lot is "Can you turn these values into attribute values to use as filters in the game?". This seems like an easy question, however when you think about it, its totally dependent on your save and what league you are playing. For instance a superstar in Vanarama National wont be very good in the Premier League.
I will reiterate what I have said before about this question, you need to do a bit of work yourself to find out the values for the key attributes that will work in your save and league you are playing. If you go to your Squad page in the game and then to Analyst Report and Comparison, you can see how your current squad compares to others in your League on each Attribute. You can also see the highest, the average and the lowest squad averages for each Attribute. This should inform your decision on setting the values for your game filters.
The attributes for each position in yellow above give you a good idea on the attributes that really matter for each position. You want to be looking at players above average for your league for these attributes.
stefanopt said: Is there anyway we can get a .json version of the file? Expand
I am unsure how to produce a .json file. The values are posted in the attached link so you might be able to get someone to do it from this information.
This question comes up a lot on the forum. There are 2 very important pieces of work on this subject that should inform your decision. The first is the attribute testing done by @Zippohttps://fm-arena.com/table/13-fm22-attributes-ratings/. This shows the testing of each attribute in FM22 and the impact of reducing the attribute score has on results. The limitation of this work is that it is not positional. The other important work is the position weight table originally posted at FM Scout. This gives a sense of the value of each attribute for each position.
I have used these pieces to calculate values or weightings for the Genie Scout tool. You can use these filters for comparison of players when you are buying players or to determine the best player for each role in your tactic from your squad.
Here is the download link to my updated ratings file for Genie Scout.
You should save the standard FMGS ratings file before loading and changing this file so you can reload the default if you are not happy with my ratings.
The standard place for Genie Scout ratings files is C:\FM Genie Scout 22g\Ratings. If you did a custom install it will be in a folder called Ratings under the FMGS install directory. Once you have copied the file to the correct location you should be able to select my ratings file by clicking on the GS symbol in the top left of the screen, and then clicking Ratings in the drop down menu, and then MDW22 from the sub menu.
I have adjusted the weightings this year to try and align all the positions, as previously the ratings were skewed with Wingers having a much higher rating.
A reminder here that Genie Scout doesn't take into account the positional ability of players in their ratings calculations. Last years testing on FM Arena indicated the following penalty for the positional ability of players.
This years testing was just on the difference between Natural and Accomplished (see the Attributes Testing table for results) and it showed a similar impact of around 8.5% penalty this year.
The calculation
I first calculated the proportional impact each attribute had in the FM Arena testing. For example Acceleration - default PPM was 1.648, reducing Acceleration by 4 points resulted in 1.039 PPM. The calculation was 1-(1.039/1.648) or 36.95%. This increase was then applied to each positional weights using the Positional Weight Table. Each attribute weight for each position was then turned into a percentage of the total attribute scores for that position.
Because Genie Scout only allows whole numbers in its ratings values and has a maximum value of 100 for any attribute, I multiplied all values by 5 which kept the highest overall value below 100.
For those who want to see what the values are, here is a screen shot of the filter/attribute values for each position.
I hope this helps someone.
Enjoy
UPDATES
Original Default GS Ratings file
Here is my copy of the original default ratings file
After looking at the percentage impact in the FM Arena Attributes testing table for Playing Position Rating over the last few years, it worked out to be very close to 2.5% per point or 1/40th. Then I calculated what Genie Scout uses for a reduction, which is quite a minor adjustment. I took a download of around 1000 wingers and looked at the differences in ratings against their positional ratings out of 20. Moving from 1/40th to 1/46th was the nearest to the adjustment.
Here is the formula for Excel =A1*(1-(20-B1)/46)
In the formula A1 is the location of the rating you want to manipulate and B1 is the location of the position score out of 20.
This is about 2.17% reduction for each point under 20.
In summary, you will need to allow for the adjustment for their positional rating out of 20 ie you need to multiply their GS Rating by 100% minus the difference between 20 and their positional rating multiplied by 2.17%. For example if their GS rating is 50% and their positional rating is 19, it is 20 - 19= 1 multiplied by 2.17% is 2.17%. Take this off 100% = 97.83% multiplied by 50.00% is 48.91%.
Changes - Eliminated a lot of the general instructions, simplified the tactic a little. - Changed some PI to fit with some of my newer, more succesful tactics. - Permanently changed to SS and 2 AF - Advanced Segundo Volantes to CM-Attack
Expand
That is my original favorite formation from when I played before FM14. I might now need to do a version based on Dragons Breath for old times sake. So many memories. I so hope we can get this working for FM22.
The ratings are calculated off the attributes testing and the position weight table. See the previous post from last years game for more details.
You should save the standard FMGS ratings file before loading and changing to this file so you can reload the default if you are not happy with my ratings.
The standard place for Genie Scout ratings files is C:\FM Genie Scout 22g\Ratings. If you did a custom install it will be in a folder called Ratings under the FMGS install directory. Once you have copied the file to the correct location you should be able to select my ratings file by clicking on the GS symbol in the top left of the screen, and then clicking Ratings in the drop down menu, and then MDW22 from the sub menu.
I have adjusted the weightings this year to try and align all the positions, as previously Wingers had much higher ratings.
Nikko said: Dragons Breath 3.1 is devastating with PSG!
Expand
Wow. Thanks for testing. I am sure you know that I usually play in the lower leagues with sides that are expected to be relegated. The tactic is doing very well for me with these sides so it is good to see what it can do in a top flight team. And it does seem to be doing well defensively for me as well. Certainly looks like your experience is the same on that front.
cptdoggo said: With IW-A's added, I can send u the save if u wanna use it as well. I have all players without traits, 15 on every attribute (was too lazy to do it like fm-arena), age, weight, height all the same, etc. Just add ur tactics on managers, freeze all players using FMRTE and simulate until 21 Nov for results. download Expand
I would like to see the save. My preference is to use tactics I have authored and always try to get three tactics that are easy to move between. Currently I run 4-1-3W-0-2 with Dragons Breath and then 4-1-2W-0-3 for Dragons Breath 3.1, I just move the CM to F9. The third tactic is 4-1-3W-1-1 with Dragons Den where the F9 moves back to an AMC SS role. I find that having different formations will reduce your bad spell time. All sides seem to have this unless you have unbelievable players. I am always starting with very much lower league teams so do not have that luxury.
I ran Dragons Breath 3.1 on your league and it wasn't as good as your results so the IW might well be a better set up. I will try it.
I have added a new version of this tactic which is over the top attacking. Dragon Breath 3.1. Moved the F9 across to AF and brought the CM Attack up to F9. This has given a ridiculous amount of scoring. Even got Norwich to 4th at the end of the season in EPL.
ZaZ said: Another thing I would like to add is that some things don't require immediate credits, because they are overused. For example, I don't think people need to say in every tactic like "set pieces are from ZaZ". It's sufficient if they give credits when asked about set pieces, or to simply correct other people if they try to give them credits for those set pieces. Not sure what other people think about that, though. Expand
Set Pieces are interesting aren't they. Some people like to spend a lot of time on them and try and perfect them for their tactics and others prefer just to plug and play what they think are the best. I think if the set pieces are from the base of the tactic you have already acknowledged then there is no reason to acknowledge the set piece as well. but if you have taken a set piece routine from another tactic and not altered it I think there should be some acknowledgement.
I am pretty impressed that an old TFF tactic would still rate so well. Reckon with a bit of tweaking it could be very competitive. TFF was truly amazing. Always followed his tactics from FM14 on. I really miss that he no longer produces tactics. What a legend.
ZaZ said: One thing that could help would be to not test tactics that are too similar to another that was already tested, unless they are marked as a tweak. I believe there is a rule about that in how tactics are tested, saying you won't test things that are too close, to avoid the use of brute force. But then we would need to have a clear understanding of what is considered "too close", and that's up to debate. Expand
I was thinking the same. I reckon that would stop a bit of it, but with some allowance for newbies first time. Still no test but point them to the rules
Yes. These files seem to be able to be used across games. Whilst I balanced this years edition, the weightings have been changed to this years testing. I suspect they will be fine for last years game but I haven't tested it. Let us know how it goes. At some stage I intend to complete last years save.
Thanks, this is a very interesting development
The edit and save was to save the default settings before you load mine, otherwise you cant get them back. I have a copy so can make it available if anyone forgets and wants it.
Open your current FM save.
Download FM Genie Scout if you don't already have it. I recommend the g version which requires a small donation. I like to keep such helpful tools going.
Make sure you have downloaded my Ratings file called MDW22.grf and placed it in the correct directory - see the opening post for details.
Open Genie Scout and load your game into the tool.
Open up Edit Player Ratings.
A dialogue box will open up with the ratings information. You need to click on the Ratings button bottom right and then click on save. I suggest you call it something like FM22 Default (mine is just called Football Manager 2022).
Then load my rating file.
Now your Genie Scout should show ratings as per my calculations.
I've been picking players with accordance to the attributes rating table for long time and it's been working like a charm to me.
I do recall that experiment. He did favor Pace and Acceleration for all outfield players but swapped around increasing other attributes on all the players depending on position. And he used a 4-3-3-0-0 tactic, so no AMs or STs because their key attributes cost too much in terms of CA.
I am not a fan of changing player attributes to win games. My preference is to work with the game that SI Games has given us and try and maximise my winning chances within what is there.
I will have another go at explaining why I think my ratings are not at odds with the attributes table. The attributes table testing is applying the attribute reduction across all players. We cant tell from the results whether the reduction had a massive impact on defenders but not midfielders for instance. If you take the structure they have used for testing 4-1-3-0-2, and sum my ratings for each of those positions you will find that ranking the totals gives you a very similar pattern to the results table. However the important attributes by position vary.
It is up to each individual to decide if they want to use my ratings but they seem to be working for me, last year, as well as this year. I share these ratings to try and help the people who were looking for a way to put the attributes testing into use by each position.
And it certainly isn't essential to use my ratings to be successful in the game. Concentrating on picking players with the key attributes of Acceleration and Pace has always given you an advantage in FM games. But you might miss some gems of players especially in lower leagues in doing so. These are the ones I am interested in.
It is somewhere in between. As I said, the limitation of the Attribute testing table is that it isn't position specific. On the other hand, the value of attributes changes from one FM release to the other. So I have attempted to blend these to get to a result that we can all use.
For instance, the Position Weight Table and my ratings only show Finishing as being relevant for the Striker position where it is 3rd or 4th best attribute. Whereas Acceleration and Pace are relevant to almost all positions and mainly top two for most positions.
Assuming that the attributes table results are the same for all positions is not correct. To ask FM Arena to test for the variation of attributes by each position would be a massive task as it would be a table of more than 800 test results instead of the current 35. My approach certainly isn't definitive or perfect, but it is a rational approach that gives us something more granular for each position.
I hope this helps
I will reiterate what I have said before about this question, you need to do a bit of work yourself to find out the values for the key attributes that will work in your save and league you are playing. If you go to your Squad page in the game and then to Analyst Report and Comparison, you can see how your current squad compares to others in your League on each Attribute. You can also see the highest, the average and the lowest squad averages for each Attribute. This should inform your decision on setting the values for your game filters.
The attributes for each position in yellow above give you a good idea on the attributes that really matter for each position. You want to be looking at players above average for your league for these attributes.
I hope this helps.
I am unsure how to produce a .json file. The values are posted in the attached link so you might be able to get someone to do it from this information.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1949-fm22-positional-filters-what-are-the-best-attributes-for-each-position/
I have used these pieces to calculate values or weightings for the Genie Scout tool. You can use these filters for comparison of players when you are buying players or to determine the best player for each role in your tactic from your squad.
Here is the download link to my updated ratings file for Genie Scout.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r55jwbdutrq19n6/MDW22.grf?dl=0
You should save the standard FMGS ratings file before loading and changing this file so you can reload the default if you are not happy with my ratings.
The standard place for Genie Scout ratings files is C:\FM Genie Scout 22g\Ratings. If you did a custom install it will be in a folder called Ratings under the FMGS install directory. Once you have copied the file to the correct location you should be able to select my ratings file by clicking on the GS symbol in the top left of the screen, and then clicking Ratings in the drop down menu, and then MDW22 from the sub menu.
I have adjusted the weightings this year to try and align all the positions, as previously the ratings were skewed with Wingers having a much higher rating.
A reminder here that Genie Scout doesn't take into account the positional ability of players in their ratings calculations. Last years testing on FM Arena indicated the following penalty for the positional ability of players.
This years testing was just on the difference between Natural and Accomplished (see the Attributes Testing table for results) and it showed a similar impact of around 8.5% penalty this year.
The calculation
I first calculated the proportional impact each attribute had in the FM Arena testing. For example Acceleration - default PPM was 1.648, reducing Acceleration by 4 points resulted in 1.039 PPM. The calculation was 1-(1.039/1.648) or 36.95%. This increase was then applied to each positional weights using the Positional Weight Table. Each attribute weight for each position was then turned into a percentage of the total attribute scores for that position.
Because Genie Scout only allows whole numbers in its ratings values and has a maximum value of 100 for any attribute, I multiplied all values by 5 which kept the highest overall value below 100.
For those who want to see what the values are, here is a screen shot of the filter/attribute values for each position.
I hope this helps someone.
Enjoy
UPDATES
Original Default GS Ratings file
Here is my copy of the original default ratings file
Default Ratings File
ykykyky Ratings file
Here is the link to the balanced version ykykyk balanced ratings file
Adjustment for positional rating PLEASE NOTE
After looking at the percentage impact in the FM Arena Attributes testing table for Playing Position Rating over the last few years, it worked out to be very close to 2.5% per point or 1/40th. Then I calculated what Genie Scout uses for a reduction, which is quite a minor adjustment. I took a download of around 1000 wingers and looked at the differences in ratings against their positional ratings out of 20. Moving from 1/40th to 1/46th was the nearest to the adjustment.
Here is the formula for Excel =A1*(1-(20-B1)/46)
In the formula A1 is the location of the rating you want to manipulate and B1 is the location of the position score out of 20.
This is about 2.17% reduction for each point under 20.
In summary, you will need to allow for the adjustment for their positional rating out of 20 ie you need to multiply their GS Rating by 100% minus the difference between 20 and their positional rating multiplied by 2.17%. For example if their GS rating is 50% and their positional rating is 19, it is 20 - 19= 1 multiplied by 2.17% is 2.17%. Take this off 100% = 97.83% multiplied by 50.00% is 48.91%.
Changes
- Eliminated a lot of the general instructions, simplified the tactic a little.
- Changed some PI to fit with some of my newer, more succesful tactics.
- Permanently changed to SS and 2 AF
- Advanced Segundo Volantes to CM-Attack
That is my original favorite formation from when I played before FM14. I might now need to do a version based on Dragons Breath for old times sake. So many memories. I so hope we can get this working for FM22.
I think it deserves having its own thread
Thanks @Zippo. Do you arrange that or do you want me to start a new thread and copy this across?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r55jwbdutrq19n6/MDW22.grf?dl=0
The ratings are calculated off the attributes testing and the position weight table. See the previous post from last years game for more details.
You should save the standard FMGS ratings file before loading and changing to this file so you can reload the default if you are not happy with my ratings.
The standard place for Genie Scout ratings files is C:\FM Genie Scout 22g\Ratings. If you did a custom install it will be in a folder called Ratings under the FMGS install directory. Once you have copied the file to the correct location you should be able to select my ratings file by clicking on the GS symbol in the top left of the screen, and then clicking Ratings in the drop down menu, and then MDW22 from the sub menu.
I have adjusted the weightings this year to try and align all the positions, as previously Wingers had much higher ratings.
Enjoy
Wow. Thanks for testing. I am sure you know that I usually play in the lower leagues with sides that are expected to be relegated. The tactic is doing very well for me with these sides so it is good to see what it can do in a top flight team. And it does seem to be doing well defensively for me as well. Certainly looks like your experience is the same on that front.
Enjoy.
I would like to see the save. My preference is to use tactics I have authored and always try to get three tactics that are easy to move between. Currently I run 4-1-3W-0-2 with Dragons Breath and then 4-1-2W-0-3 for Dragons Breath 3.1, I just move the CM to F9. The third tactic is 4-1-3W-1-1 with Dragons Den where the F9 moves back to an AMC SS role. I find that having different formations will reduce your bad spell time. All sides seem to have this unless you have unbelievable players. I am always starting with very much lower league teams so do not have that luxury.
I ran Dragons Breath 3.1 on your league and it wasn't as good as your results so the IW might well be a better set up. I will try it.
Thanks for your input I very much appreciate it.
Good results! 5.5+ tactics get ~130ish points
Good to hear. Maybe a chance to get above my 2 5.6 scores. Did you test as is or with the IWs?
No this was my first go at it. Happy for you to try the changes you have suggested and post it
Set Pieces are interesting aren't they. Some people like to spend a lot of time on them and try and perfect them for their tactics and others prefer just to plug and play what they think are the best. I think if the set pieces are from the base of the tactic you have already acknowledged then there is no reason to acknowledge the set piece as well. but if you have taken a set piece routine from another tactic and not altered it I think there should be some acknowledgement.
I was thinking the same. I reckon that would stop a bit of it, but with some allowance for newbies first time. Still no test but point them to the rules