dzek said: The purpose of doing more runs on the tactics is to see how well they hold up in the long run.
I don't think they will run all the tactics for 4.000 matches. They run the first tactics on the table to show the most balanced/"best" for ME. When a tactic stays first and after the 4.000 runs then, I think, they won't move on to other runs in other tactics. Expand
Oh, I thought they run 4k test on tactics above a particular threshold score (like 57 or 58), but again, I don't remember.
Anticipation, Balance and funny enuf determination. In my rating system, I don't look at jumping reach for defenders and they are getting more than 7 rating without issues. But again, I am playing in Romania as a part of journeyman save, so it may be different in EPL.
Fundamentally, the ykykyky rating was based on positions. FM Arena is based on the average across the outfield team. In the words of Roy Slaven, make of that what you will. Expand
keithb said: I think yk is outdated. Jumping reach is considerably undervalued, along with other attributes being overvalued. I think we can also assume that although the testing on here is for every position, it's fairly simple to work out which positions need what attributes. Although there will be some mistakes im sure Expand
I want to address all three comments here and share my opinion, I want to make a case that Jumping reach is not important for a defender. Yes, player with high jumping reach will score a lot of goals and hence would have high match rating but that has nothing to do with his ability to defend.
Okay, I am sure, the attribute testing in FM-Arena found that Jumping reach is the 3rd impactful attribute, hence one would assume its important for Defender but lets look at it a little closer right. By increasing the Jumping reach by +5, goals scored increase by 23% (62->76) but goals against decrease by only -2% (48->47). So ya, you can have a striker with jumping reach of 15+ and he will do just fine with goal scoring and you don't need a defender with high jumping reach, I would prioritize pace and acceleration for a defender like Mark had in his rating, so that you can catch up to the pacey strikers.
keithb said: Thanks for the detailed reply and screenshot. The problem I have with assistant manager is the same as billy bean in moneyball haha. He doesn't play the players I've bought!!! Expand
unfortunately, immaterial of what the python code tells you, you need to buy players among that python list with what the assistant manager things is the best options (like look at the star rating he assign to the player).
Again, if you want to go with this adventure, you might need your code to be less skewed (don't assign some crazy weight to pace and acceleration), keep it less skewed so that the star rating align with player recruitment suggestion from Python.
keithb said: Yes this is a good point. I am already thinking how to make the game more challenging. This could include my own tactics, though its hard to forget what works well in the match engine, and as you have pointed out scouted only players. My starting scouts had 2 or 3 i think for judging ability and potential, although obviously this doesnt matter when using phython. I think this is far superior to genie scout which I find difficult to weight.
I just thought I would give this new method a go, but champions league first season with Truo is probably a bit too much!! Expand
That's what happens when we use meta tactics and good recruitment. So once you get comfortable with scouted only player based recruitment (trust me its very difficult when compared to player willing to join your club specially if you play with large database), you can bump up the difficulty by playing as DOF and let your assistant manager come with tactics. Lets be real right, their tactics suck but not by a lot specifically if you go with some one who does pressing based tactics, if you look at the preset tactic testing in FM-Arena they score around 43 (Gegenpress based preset tactics - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7499-fm24-preset-4231-gegenpress/) that's more than enuf to win the game. I have attached a screen shot of the criteria I use to identify good assistant manger. Hope this helps! This is a unique way to play the game, but it's very fun one you understand the game mechanics very well to keep up the difficulty. Combine this with Journeyman, you got yourself long term fun
keithb said: Using python and my own ratings based on the tests on here, recruitment has been great. I've only just got my own scouts as before no one with decent attributes would join. Expand
Good to know that more people are using python for recruitment. Since using python with proper rating system, based on attribute testing done in this platform is OP. Generally, I will be looking at the player pool who has been scouted rather than looking at everyone who is willing to join my club. This keeps the game a bit more challenging, thought, like sharing this tip with you
keithb said: Its still very good for me, Truro first season in the EPL. We are 4th in the January Window, spent £17m in total. Half my starting eleven are free transfers. Expand
That's awesome! In-game any tactic that's more than a score of 50 should do fine, if your recruitment is on point.
Delicious said: I was sure there was a voice saying : Reduced "goal scoring overall", now can't find it anymore, from that seem they have just fixed AI behavior on defending phase. Which is the case, is totaly dumb.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player). Expand
I thought I was hallucinating, I swear I read something like that (something around attacking behaviour) on the patch note within an hour the patch came out but I couldn't find that after.
keithb said: It still performed excellently for me. First season in the championship with Truro and we won it. Played the full season on 24.2 Expand
I tested it on my end, it's still good but I wouldn't say it's the best, there are better tactics. I am super impressed by the result I got on 424 Death Star by @Delicious and of course the one and only @A Smile 424 deformation II in the current patch. Please try those tactics to see the difference
i am happy that they fixed the 4-4-2 formation. Since i play the DOF save, this formation was crap, even if you have a team with CA 160, you cant even get into top 6 in EPL. No wonder FM-Arena excluded that formation from testing. Hopefully, things are back to normal and we can play some good old 4-4-2 formation.
Nice, we are doing -5 attribute testing, this proves beyond doubt that passing is a shit attribute and a value more than 8 or 9 should perform as good as a value of 16 to 19.
Milakus said: Because value "1" is an extreme attribute value. I don't think there's any player that has value "1" for an attribute.
If I'm not mistaken attribute values from 1 to 5 are "free" which means it doesn't cost any CA points.
So I think the minimal possible value for an attribute is "5" and not "1".
And when you set an attribute to "1" then you do a crazy thing and the result might be crazy as well. Expand
you are right, based on my observations, majority of the attribute value for most players range between 7-17, i am not saying low values are not possible but thats rare and even if it does happen, it happens on few attributes rather than a bunch of them.
I don't think they will run all the tactics for 4.000 matches. They run the first tactics on the table to show the most balanced/"best" for ME. When a tactic stays first and after the 4.000 runs then, I think, they won't move on to other runs in other tactics.
Oh, I thought they run 4k test on tactics above a particular threshold score (like 57 or 58), but again, I don't remember.
Ya it could just be statistical noise, hence I believe there is no impact on defence by increasing jumping reach.
Mark said: I am not sure I have the time to address all the questions raised on this subject. There is plenty to read on this thread.
Best Attributes for Each Position
Fundamentally, the ykykyky rating was based on positions. FM Arena is based on the average across the outfield team. In the words of Roy Slaven, make of that what you will.
keithb said: I think yk is outdated. Jumping reach is considerably undervalued, along with other attributes being overvalued. I think we can also assume that although the testing on here is for every position, it's fairly simple to work out which positions need what attributes. Although there will be some mistakes im sure
I want to address all three comments here and share my opinion, I want to make a case that Jumping reach is not important for a defender. Yes, player with high jumping reach will score a lot of goals and hence would have high match rating but that has nothing to do with his ability to defend.
Okay, I am sure, the attribute testing in FM-Arena found that Jumping reach is the 3rd impactful attribute, hence one would assume its important for Defender but lets look at it a little closer right. By increasing the Jumping reach by +5, goals scored increase by 23% (62->76) but goals against decrease by only -2% (48->47). So ya, you can have a striker with jumping reach of 15+ and he will do just fine with goal scoring and you don't need a defender with high jumping reach, I would prioritize pace and acceleration for a defender like Mark had in his rating, so that you can catch up to the pacey strikers.
unfortunately, immaterial of what the python code tells you, you need to buy players among that python list with what the assistant manager things is the best options (like look at the star rating he assign to the player).
Again, if you want to go with this adventure, you might need your code to be less skewed (don't assign some crazy weight to pace and acceleration), keep it less skewed so that the star rating align with player recruitment suggestion from Python.
Let me give an example:
More skewed: (Less likely ass man will play)
calculate_score({"Fin":1, "Dri":5, "Fir":1, "Tec":1, "Pas":1, "OtB":1, "Cmp":1, "Ant":3, "Dec":1, "Wor":1, "Acc":5, "Pac":5, "Agi":1, "Bal":3, "Sta":1, "Jum":5}, 'AF Score'
Less Skewed: (More likely ass man will play)
calculate_score({"Fin":1, "Dri":2, "Fir":1, "Tec":1, "Pas":1, "OtB":1, "Cmp":1, "Ant":1.5, "Dec":1, "Wor":1, "Acc":2, "Pac":2, "Agi":1, "Bal":1.5, "Sta":1, "Jum":2}, 'AF Score'
I just thought I would give this new method a go, but champions league first season with Truo is probably a bit too much!!
That's what happens when we use meta tactics and good recruitment. So once you get comfortable with scouted only player based recruitment (trust me its very difficult when compared to player willing to join your club specially if you play with large database), you can bump up the difficulty by playing as DOF and let your assistant manager come with tactics. Lets be real right, their tactics suck but not by a lot specifically if you go with some one who does pressing based tactics, if you look at the preset tactic testing in FM-Arena they score around 43 (Gegenpress based preset tactics - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7499-fm24-preset-4231-gegenpress/) that's more than enuf to win the game. I have attached a screen shot of the criteria I use to identify good assistant manger. Hope this helps! This is a unique way to play the game, but it's very fun one you understand the game mechanics very well to keep up the difficulty. Combine this with Journeyman, you got yourself long term fun
Good to know that more people are using python for recruitment. Since using python with proper rating system, based on attribute testing done in this platform is OP. Generally, I will be looking at the player pool who has been scouted rather than looking at everyone who is willing to join my club. This keeps the game a bit more challenging, thought, like sharing this tip with you
That's awesome! In-game any tactic that's more than a score of 50 should do fine, if your recruitment is on point.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player).
I thought I was hallucinating, I swear I read something like that (something around attacking behaviour) on the patch note within an hour the patch came out but I couldn't find that after.
good point!
I tested it on my end, it's still good but I wouldn't say it's the best, there are better tactics. I am super impressed by the result I got on 424 Death Star by @Delicious and of course the one and only @A Smile 424 deformation II in the current patch. Please try those tactics to see the difference
https://fm-arena.com/thread/6879-424-deformation-ii/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/6986-424-death-star/
If I'm not mistaken attribute values from 1 to 5 are "free" which means it doesn't cost any CA points.
So I think the minimal possible value for an attribute is "5" and not "1".
And when you set an attribute to "1" then you do a crazy thing and the result might be crazy as well.
you are right, based on my observations, majority of the attribute value for most players range between 7-17, i am not saying low values are not possible but thats rare and even if it does happen, it happens on few attributes rather than a bunch of them.