Manidaro7 said: What should you do if you have a red card? Expand
defend like crazy, I'm sure I've answered this on another thread! But I usually sub off the worst performing IF and replace him with a player who can play the position of the player sent off, but it all depends on who gets sent, I would only do this for a defensive player
14cm said: Hi Guys. I learned about FM by watching the results of people experimenting in the FM Arena. Please understand if my English is not good. I have a few questions. I need the help of my seniors in the FM
https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/ I've seen about this experiment. And I wondered. How much of an impact does each attribute have on the game? Some things are meaningless, and how meaningless they are?
I started by looking at how the pass-related attributes would affect the game I adjusted the passing, vision, and technique values of one of the two teams using tiki-taka in a variable suppression environment that will be explained later. 52 times each
As a result, lowering or increasing the number at 14 made the results even worse. If high or low numbers are detrimental to a short passing environment, what about long passes where pass-related attributes can be beneficial?
In a previous experiment, I found that the lower the position, the more long passes make, so I experimented with DM-DLP with plenty of space
The experimental conditions are as follows
- The user controls each team directly and does not intervene during the match
- Wolves vs Tottenham. Wolves Home
- To create space, Wolves used the Gegenpress template, while Tottenham used the fluide counter-attack template
- change all morale perfect maximise existing tactical familiarty improve team cohesion remove all injuries remove all unhappiness
- assistant manager of equal ability raise morale with each team's locker room speech
- All players, except DM, have equal stats
- I gave DM personal instructions to more direct passes. After that, I modified the pass, vision, and techniques moves from 10 to 20, experimenting with each process 30 times. In addition, personally checked and recorded the highlights of all long pass situations
This is the result
DM doesn't try and doesn't make many long passes. 20's pass-related attributes were rather bad. In the DLP roll that instructed more direct passes
After checking the highlight situation, the player does well to complete mid-length passes, regardless of the attribute
The difference comes from the frequency of passes and long passes. From 10 to 14, there is no difference in arithmetic stats, but from 12 onwards, it is noticeable that the ball bounces after receiving the passer's ball. 10 is even more so
Passes to the head, knees and waist, not to the feet. Or a pass that bounces the ball. This is the case, but it's not a significant number from 20 to 10, so I'm not sure how technique affects the quality of the pass
I can also see that even if there is a player to penetrate, the ball is not sent into the middle or into the half-space
I suspect this is a deliberate suppression of long passes by SI in order to prevent the FM Arena tactical table from being overrun with counter-attacking tactics
I wonder if this phenomenon and efficiency also occur in MID and AM. I'd like to experiment with the efficiency of defensive attributes such as tackles in the future
I'm curious to know how the pass affects the game, and what about the other attributes.
When I introduced these experiments to the FM community I use, some user said that already done these attribute experiments hundreds of times over the past 10 years. Is that really the case? If so, I don't see any reason to do further experiments. Can tell me the results of people who have already tried the same thing as me before I do more experiments?
I need the help of those of you who have more knowledge than I do. Expand
He is going off the release notes SI released with the patch, there is no mention of any M.E changes, however I do believe that some things may have been changed "under the hood"
02Kyrand said: Oh, I meant the first comments on this tactic is by you, where you share some tweaks. I just wondered if the tweaks were already in the comments or not.
Regarding you suggestion, KATANA would absolutely work with Arsenal, It's just I want another one too when I want to play with both Havertz (but not as striker) AND Ødegaard :-)
With A 4-1-2-3 like this one I can fit both in. Expand
Ah ok, yes the tweaks mentioned in the original post are included in the download.
02Kyrand said: In regards to tactic effectiveness, would you say this is more balanced? I find Katana to be, even if it has attack mentality as default, to be quite resilient against even the biggest of opponents, although I ship in some goals, but make up for it by (usually) scoring more. Expand
You see, I'm torn with this because away from home against the big teams, Katana is still bossing it, but against the lower teams it seems to be struggling against lower teams where as the positive mentality seems to struggle away against the big teams but against lower teams is more reliable
02Kyrand said: Your KATANA 4-2-3-1 is elite , but starting save with Arsenal now, and I want to use this as it better suits the players they have.
The tweaks you have suggested, are they implemented in the downloaded tactic, or something I should change?
How is this compared to KATANA would you say? Almost as good? And If the changes you mentioned is not included in the downloadable tactic, how much does it change the tactic? For the better? Or about the same?
Sorry for all these questions! Expand
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed Katana.
Sorry but what changes are you referring to?
In regards to the Katana v3.1, then Katana still outscored this tactic but I do also believe that attacking has become less effective than positive and balanced. In my opinion, a 4231 would be better suited for Arsenal as you could play Rice and Partey as the DMs with Odegaard as the AM
me3kins said: been waiting for your new one mate is it just going be tested over the 2400 games or go up to 4800 Expand
Thanks mate and I'm not sure if it will be tested for 4800 matches, not quite sure on the rules regarding the criteria for a tactic to be tested for 4800 matches
alex said: Yup... I don't know how the match engine changed with this update; it's strange. Maybe it has to do with the updates the guys made to the testing method. But I see that the 4231 dropped in effectiveness, and the 424 is the new meta (until this point, at least). And also the CM's seem to perform better, I uploaded a tactic similar to this one but with 2 CMs and it scored 62.4, okay after 1200, but still... Why would SI not show any match engine tweaks...but here they are ) Expand
As you said, maybe the changes in effectiveness has changed due to the changes in testing. In my own testing though I had noticed a difference in mentalities. Katana v3.1 was always achieving over 100 points in my testing but since the update, the highest its got 95 points and I've done over 10 tests with it, not a large sample I know but its very strange how it never achieved under 100 points prior to the update and now it can't get above 95 points
defend like crazy, I'm sure I've answered this on another thread! But I usually sub off the worst performing IF and replace him with a player who can play the position of the player sent off, but it all depends on who gets sent, I would only do this for a defensive player
Holiday tested, AM in charge of training. Best XI selected.
Changes-
Added take more risks to FB
Changes-
Removed take more risks from FB
Added cross from byline to FB
Changes-
Added sit narrower and hold up ball to right IF
Added stay wider and hold up ball to left IF
Interested to see how the above added instructions work
https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/
I've seen about this experiment. And I wondered. How much of an impact does each attribute have on the game? Some things are meaningless, and how meaningless they are?
I started by looking at how the pass-related attributes would affect the game
I adjusted the passing, vision, and technique values of one of the two teams using tiki-taka in a variable suppression environment that will be explained later. 52 times each
As a result, lowering or increasing the number at 14 made the results even worse. If high or low numbers are detrimental to a short passing environment, what about long passes where pass-related attributes can be beneficial?
In a previous experiment, I found that the lower the position, the more long passes make, so I experimented with DM-DLP with plenty of space
The experimental conditions are as follows
- The user controls each team directly and does not intervene during the match
- Wolves vs Tottenham. Wolves Home
- To create space, Wolves used the Gegenpress template, while Tottenham used the fluide counter-attack template
- change all morale perfect
maximise existing tactical familiarty
improve team cohesion
remove all injuries
remove all unhappiness
- assistant manager of equal ability raise morale with each team's locker room speech
- All players, except DM, have equal stats
- I gave DM personal instructions to more direct passes. After that, I modified the pass, vision, and techniques moves from 10 to 20, experimenting with each process 30 times. In addition, personally checked and recorded the highlights of all long pass situations
This is the result
DM doesn't try and doesn't make many long passes. 20's pass-related attributes were rather bad. In the DLP roll that instructed more direct passes
After checking the highlight situation, the player does well to complete mid-length passes, regardless of the attribute
The difference comes from the frequency of passes and long passes. From 10 to 14, there is no difference in arithmetic stats, but from 12 onwards, it is noticeable that the ball bounces after receiving the passer's ball. 10 is even more so
Passes to the head, knees and waist, not to the feet. Or a pass that bounces the ball. This is the case, but it's not a significant number from 20 to 10, so I'm not sure how technique affects the quality of the pass
I can also see that even if there is a player to penetrate, the ball is not sent into the middle or into the half-space
I suspect this is a deliberate suppression of long passes by SI in order to prevent the FM Arena tactical table from being overrun with counter-attacking tactics
I wonder if this phenomenon and efficiency also occur in MID and AM. I'd like to experiment with the efficiency of defensive attributes such as tackles in the future
I'm curious to know how the pass affects the game, and what about the other attributes.
When I introduced these experiments to the FM community I use, some user said that already done these attribute experiments hundreds of times over the past 10 years. Is that really the case? If so, I don't see any reason to do further experiments. Can tell me the results of people who have already tried the same thing as me before I do more experiments?
I need the help of those of you who have more knowledge than I do.
Some good analysis pal but here is the attribute testing table - https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/
Changes-
Added step up more
Added hold up ball to AM
He is going off the release notes SI released with the patch, there is no mention of any M.E changes, however I do believe that some things may have been changed "under the hood"
Changes-
Removed step up more
Removed dribble more and added hold up ball to AM
It will still work mate but maybe not as effective as it once was or against the top tactics now
Wouldn't matter what patch your save was in mate, it would've been updated to reflect the new patch
Changes-
FBa to WBa
Removed all PIs from WB but left tackle harder
Removed move into channels on AM
Regarding you suggestion, KATANA would absolutely work with Arsenal, It's just I want another one too when I want to play with both Havertz (but not as striker) AND Ødegaard :-)
With A 4-1-2-3 like this one I can fit both in.
Ah ok, yes the tweaks mentioned in the original post are included in the download.
02Kyrand said: In regards to tactic effectiveness, would you say this is more balanced? I find Katana to be, even if it has attack mentality as default, to be quite resilient against even the biggest of opponents, although I ship in some goals, but make up for it by (usually) scoring more.
You see, I'm torn with this because away from home against the big teams, Katana is still bossing it, but against the lower teams it seems to be struggling against lower teams where as the positive mentality seems to struggle away against the big teams but against lower teams is more reliable
The tweaks you have suggested, are they implemented in the downloaded tactic, or something I should change?
How is this compared to KATANA would you say? Almost as good?
And If the changes you mentioned is not included in the downloadable tactic, how much does it change the tactic? For the better? Or about the same?
Sorry for all these questions!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed Katana.
Sorry but what changes are you referring to?
In regards to the Katana v3.1, then Katana still outscored this tactic but I do also believe that attacking has become less effective than positive and balanced. In my opinion, a 4231 would be better suited for Arsenal as you could play Rice and Partey as the DMs with Odegaard as the AM
Thanks mate and I'm not sure if it will be tested for 4800 matches, not quite sure on the rules regarding the criteria for a tactic to be tested for 4800 matches
Changes-
Removed all PIs from FB but left tackle harder
As you said, maybe the changes in effectiveness has changed due to the changes in testing. In my own testing though I had noticed a difference in mentalities. Katana v3.1 was always achieving over 100 points in my testing but since the update, the highest its got 95 points and I've done over 10 tests with it, not a large sample I know but its very strange how it never achieved under 100 points prior to the update and now it can't get above 95 points