As a fan of target man role I'm encouraged by your findings, have you tried a TF-Su + TF-At combo? Personally I've had decent success with various striker roles as long as the strikers were tall and good in the air - lots of goals from headers.
Would you suggest using big, tall strikers as TF-At or any type of striker should do?
Thanks Expand
About TF-Su + TF-At, it got worse results than double TF-At for me. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just wasn't the best for my setup.
About tall strikers, I am not sure about it yet. I didn't do any tests about it, so any opinion I give now would be just a guess. I believe FM-Arena will test it some time after beta, so we will eventually know.
pixar said: So how should the ideal TF be? 170-180cm tall, bad jumping (7-11), amazing speed (+18) +190cm tall, avg jumping & speed (15-16)
In year, when choosing a TF, should our main criterion be height or speed? Expand
It's hard to know yet, since I'm focusing in testing the tactic instead of what players would fit in better. I don't want to make any wild guesses that might influence people to the wrong direction.
If you really want to know what I would pick, I would probably go for the first option, since it worked better last version (FM21) and I don't have much info about FM22 yet.
My first suggestion for anyone doing tactics is to use TF-At, they seem to do better than any other role. I also tried most interesting combinations and none is better than two TF-At. I have yet to try three strikers or one striker, but I don't think it will be much different.
BiTeL33T said: hey man, where u able to improve your best more? i've been doing some testing and half back seems pretty good Expand
Try this. TF-At is showing lots of potential, it seems better than AF-At. I have yet to test other attacking roles, then I will try mixing roles like TF-At + P-At.
P.S.: If anyone can test and post results, I would be grateful, specially if you can tell how it compares to other tactics you tested before.
Alexis said: OK thanks. I chose to ask here because I prefer to receive an answer from someone experienced like you than any stranger who might give me bad advice.
But when you have a tired player before a match, do you put him on the bench and then maybe make him come on during the match, or do you not select him at all? I guess my question is, do you prefer to select a 17 year old from your junior squad even if he is far from first team level, if he is fresh, or you will put on the bench a tired but first team level player? Expand
If you have to bring people from junior squad, it means you are probably not rotating well enough or you didn't build your squad right. You only need two players per position to do well the entire season with good rotation, with a third option in case of injuries. If all my options were injuried except a young kid and a tired player, I would use the kid. Just to be clear, I usually don't hire youth if they have terrible attributes, so they need at least some acceleration and pace.
P.S.: There are lots of people more experienced than me here, so it's good to open a thread asking everyone instead. I just happened to test enough variations of tactics and be lucky to get the most effective of FM21 in this page.
Alexis said: I have a question regarding first team selection. What is your strategy generally regarding player selection of 'tired' players? When a player is tired, do you put him on the bench and start his substitute (who should be around the same quality as him, maybe just a bit worse) but if his replacement gets tired during the match, you make your tired player come on in the second half, do you start your tired player anyway (for example if he is tired but 'good' or 'excellent' condition), or do you not even put him on the bench, and let him rest completely until he is match fit for the following match? Expand
That has nothing to do with the topic, but I'll answer anyway. I usually only use players in top condition and low fatigue. If a player gets tired during match or takes a knock that lowers his condition, then I substitute him. Most of the times I do one or two subs at half time, to rest players, and save at least one sub to the 70-75 minutes mark, to avoid having trouble with injuries and playing with ten. I always do all subs every match, unless I have another match within 48h (meaning I need to save energy from reserves too).
Middleweight165 said: 3 at the back, the 3 x CB tactics. There has been a few posted recently. I have used yours and some tweaks of the original ones posted. 3-1-6-0 and Queen Sacrifice Expand
There isn't much to talk about it. They are good tactics, both can win championships, but my favorite tactics with three defenders for FM21 are Tank and Copper. Tank has the highest goal difference while Copper has the lowest goals conceded (considering tactics with highest score), meaning they complement each other very well.
About 3-1-6, if you mean WaveZ tweak by Stan Seymour, I think it's a pretty good and balanced tactic with three defenders. It's interesting to have one stopper while two defenders hold the line for offside, as well as force opponents inside where you have three defenders. If I was to change something, I would remove Play For Set Pieces and make the tactic symetrical with two SS instead, just because I dislike asymmetry. I would also change Anchor for some role that contributes more with other phases of the game, like DM, DLP or even RPM. Anyway, it's a very solid tactic, not much to say about it.
About Queen Sacrifice, it is clearly less balanced. Two defenders covering can easily break the offside line. It also forces opponents outside, where you have no wingbacks, which can probably cause trouble. (P.S.: I am talking here about Queen Sacrifice tweak by Metal, but if you mean the lower score one by Stan Seymour, then it doesn't have those problems. However, it's very leaky because of less players in the midfield and defense.)
Middleweight165 said: @ZaZ Are these your only changes from Blue 3.0 to Light Blue 3.0 - Cautious mentality - High Tempo from Extremely High Tempo in possession - Time waste in possession - Slow pace down and stay on feet In Transition
Were there any changes to player instructions? Expand
I actually change tempo to neutral, but in the file I added there it's Extremely High Tempo. Other than that, it's what you said, with no change in player instructions.
Sorry for not testing everything you guys ask, my time is limited so I can only run around eight to ten configurations a day. When some configuration is promising, I often run it three or five times to see if it becomes the current best, so testing can't progress as fast as I would like. I appreciate the input, though, and try to test most things you suggest.
saycarramrod said: @ZaZ I'm assuming you aren't tracking that closely, but maybe see amount of injuries Very Attacking v Balanced/Cautious as well? Wonder how the impact is on your actual players seeing as gegenpress is nerfed this year. Expand
No, I'm not tracking injuries. However, if Very Attacking can get the same amount of points even with injuries, that would mean it's actually better. Right now I'm testing all mentalities to see which are good.
Cagado said: I think you should try Half Back at DM position looks very good to defend, and i am playing with other positions that look very strong. At MC you should try Advanced playmaker-ATK and AML/AMR Raumdueter looks broken they always score gols or making very good crosses. Expand
Just finished first test with balanced. For my setup, it got around the same number of points, but lower goal difference. Gonna run a couple more times to see how it goes.
Small sample size but first 2 games were the exact same tactic on very attacking, last 2 were on balanced. I think there's atleast something there. Expand
Was it the tactic posted above? I'm running test with balanced now to see how it goes.
Sane said: So, in the end, what to choose for the greatest efficiency? With two If-At and two AF-At? And what are the roles of the central midfielders? And are you sure that the very attacking mentality is much better than the positive one in this beta? Expand
I'll post when beta is over, because I'm still checking what works and what doesn't. It can still change a lot in the next week. If you wanna check to play yourself, then my current best is attached to this post, but I'm still trying to fix the leaky defense.
Egraam said: I'm playing on balanced with my tactic, also had more success with Attacking and Cautious than with Positive. Positive just seems not be it on this engine, at least for me.
(results with balanced)
Expand
I didn't try cautious and balanced, gonna try later. Thanks for the tip!
Target Forward, they changed name in FM22.
As a fan of target man role I'm encouraged by your findings, have you tried a TF-Su + TF-At combo? Personally I've had decent success with various striker roles as long as the strikers were tall and good in the air - lots of goals from headers.
Would you suggest using big, tall strikers as TF-At or any type of striker should do?
Thanks
About TF-Su + TF-At, it got worse results than double TF-At for me. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just wasn't the best for my setup.
About tall strikers, I am not sure about it yet. I didn't do any tests about it, so any opinion I give now would be just a guess. I believe FM-Arena will test it some time after beta, so we will eventually know.
pixar said: So how should the ideal TF be?
170-180cm tall, bad jumping (7-11), amazing speed (+18)
+190cm tall, avg jumping & speed (15-16)
In year, when choosing a TF, should our main criterion be height or speed?
It's hard to know yet, since I'm focusing in testing the tactic instead of what players would fit in better. I don't want to make any wild guesses that might influence people to the wrong direction.
If you really want to know what I would pick, I would probably go for the first option, since it worked better last version (FM21) and I don't have much info about FM22 yet.
You're weclome!
You can check on the link below:
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1611-zaz-s-log
Fanatic is better for two ST. If you don's need two ST, then this one is better.
Try this. TF-At is showing lots of potential, it seems better than AF-At. I have yet to test other attacking roles, then I will try mixing roles like TF-At + P-At.
P.S.: If anyone can test and post results, I would be grateful, specially if you can tell how it compares to other tactics you tested before.
But when you have a tired player before a match, do you put him on the bench and then maybe make him come on during the match, or do you not select him at all? I guess my question is, do you prefer to select a 17 year old from your junior squad even if he is far from first team level, if he is fresh, or you will put on the bench a tired but first team level player?
If you have to bring people from junior squad, it means you are probably not rotating well enough or you didn't build your squad right. You only need two players per position to do well the entire season with good rotation, with a third option in case of injuries. If all my options were injuried except a young kid and a tired player, I would use the kid. Just to be clear, I usually don't hire youth if they have terrible attributes, so they need at least some acceleration and pace.
P.S.: There are lots of people more experienced than me here, so it's good to open a thread asking everyone instead. I just happened to test enough variations of tactics and be lucky to get the most effective of FM21 in this page.
That has nothing to do with the topic, but I'll answer anyway. I usually only use players in top condition and low fatigue. If a player gets tired during match or takes a knock that lowers his condition, then I substitute him. Most of the times I do one or two subs at half time, to rest players, and save at least one sub to the 70-75 minutes mark, to avoid having trouble with injuries and playing with ten. I always do all subs every match, unless I have another match within 48h (meaning I need to save energy from reserves too).
There isn't much to talk about it. They are good tactics, both can win championships, but my favorite tactics with three defenders for FM21 are Tank and Copper. Tank has the highest goal difference while Copper has the lowest goals conceded (considering tactics with highest score), meaning they complement each other very well.
About 3-1-6, if you mean WaveZ tweak by Stan Seymour, I think it's a pretty good and balanced tactic with three defenders. It's interesting to have one stopper while two defenders hold the line for offside, as well as force opponents inside where you have three defenders. If I was to change something, I would remove Play For Set Pieces and make the tactic symetrical with two SS instead, just because I dislike asymmetry. I would also change Anchor for some role that contributes more with other phases of the game, like DM, DLP or even RPM. Anyway, it's a very solid tactic, not much to say about it.
About Queen Sacrifice, it is clearly less balanced. Two defenders covering can easily break the offside line. It also forces opponents outside, where you have no wingbacks, which can probably cause trouble. (P.S.: I am talking here about Queen Sacrifice tweak by Metal, but if you mean the lower score one by Stan Seymour, then it doesn't have those problems. However, it's very leaky because of less players in the midfield and defense.)
Sorry, I don't know what ATB means (probably another language?). Can you post the link, please?
Light Blue. All the changes you said from Blue, plus neutral tempo.
- Cautious mentality
- High Tempo from Extremely High Tempo in possession
- Time waste in possession
- Slow pace down and stay on feet In Transition
Were there any changes to player instructions?
I actually change tempo to neutral, but in the file I added there it's Extremely High Tempo. Other than that, it's what you said, with no change in player instructions.
Most likely.
BiTeL33T said: what do you think about player height, heading and jumping reach ? seems broken with crosses being so good
Hard to say without testing. FM-Arena will probably do at some point.
Gaksital said: Half Back at DM works effectively in my save game, also! Especially at the mentality of 'attacking'. RMD is better than before also.
In additon, Poacher is better than Advanced Forward, i think
I'll test other ST roles soon. Now I am testing DM roles.
Thank you for testing! Keep checking here and I will add improved versions as I do more testing. I feel like it can still improve a lot.
No, I'm not tracking injuries. However, if Very Attacking can get the same amount of points even with injuries, that would mean it's actually better. Right now I'm testing all mentalities to see which are good.
Cagado said: I think you should try Half Back at DM position looks very good to defend, and i am playing with other positions that look very strong. At MC you should try Advanced playmaker-ATK and AML/AMR Raumdueter looks broken they always score gols or making very good crosses.
I will see if I can fit that after mentalities.
Small sample size but first 2 games were the exact same tactic on very attacking, last 2 were on balanced. I think there's atleast something there.
Was it the tactic posted above? I'm running test with balanced now to see how it goes.
And are you sure that the very attacking mentality is much better than the positive one in this beta?
I'll post when beta is over, because I'm still checking what works and what doesn't. It can still change a lot in the next week. If you wanna check to play yourself, then my current best is attached to this post, but I'm still trying to fix the leaky defense.
Egraam said: I'm playing on balanced with my tactic, also had more success with Attacking and Cautious than with Positive. Positive just seems not be it on this engine, at least for me.
(results with balanced)
I didn't try cautious and balanced, gonna try later. Thanks for the tip!