I played a couple of matches but didn't upload images or videos to post here yet. I hired 6 morre players so my squad has 23 players, including three goalkeepers. In the matches, I won three three matches and lost one. For my bad luck, I lost because I was resting players for FA Cup, since I need the money. Then, the match was postponed because of rain. Had I played with best squad, I would have climbed to first place in the table.
Other than that, two negative things happened. First, I was hiring a player and didn't know the price for his passport (from Australia) would cost 22k euros. When I saw that, I panicked and tried to cancel the deal, but the price for the passport was already paid. Ended up without the player or the passport, and a debt of 22k. Now my projected loss by the end of season is almost 40k euros.
The other negative thing is that I drew Liverpool in FA Cup in case I win the postponed match, against a team one league above. That's impossible to win, but if I get there, the TV revenue should definitely save my team for the next two or three seasons.
Anyway, gonna play the next couple of matches, for FA Trophy and FA Cup, then I post some results, as well as a picture of my squad attributes.
Zippo said: We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball. Expand
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
At least now we have something to work on. DC and GK are harder to measure. For the other positions, focusing in the 4 best attributes of the tests will be effective. Checking the table, I imagine Dribbling isn't as important for defenders, since it didn't increase GA. The ones that did increase the most, other than Acceleration and Pace, are Jumping Reach, Balance and Anticipation. I will use those 5 to guide my search for defenders. For goalkeepers, I don't think those tests are so relevant.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision. Expand
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance: Tier S: Acceleration and Pace Tier A: Agility and Dribbling Tier B: Balance and Vision Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Zippo said: I don't think there's a point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point. Expand
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Zealot said: if players don't need a more obvious attribute like Finishing for scoring then I wouldn't be surprised to know they don't need First Touch to score Expand
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
Mark said: I have struggled to find too much correlation. What I thought might help was to turn the approach around.
We covered 6 leagues with the top ranked side and the bottom ranked side for each league. So I looked at the top ranked side that performed the worst and looked at the attributes where they were ranked top or second in the league overall going in to the season. Salford performed the worst of the top ranked sides, being substantially below the other top ranked sides with just 1.844 points per game, and even below one of the bottomed ranked sides.
Interestingly they also had the highest number of attribute rankings at highest or second highest in the league. I looked at all these attributes, because you would expect if these mattered Salford would have performed much better.
Interestingly Salford only had 2 attributes that ranked badly, both at 23rd for their league (the remainder average just over 4th). These attributes were Acceleration and Pace. The second worst performing side of the top ranked sides, Notts County also performed badly on just these 2 attributes plus Determination. Adding weight to these attributes, is that St Albans were ranked 2nd and 3rd for these in their league and they were easily our best lowest ranked side beating Salford in points per game. All the top 4 sides in our test were ranked above average in Acceleration and 3 were ranked above average for Pace.
Safe to say Acceleration and Pace are very important.
Next I looked at where an attribute was ranked 4th or better for the 3 of the 4 top scoring sides and not in the top 10 for Salford or Notts. The one that stood out is Vision. Ranked 4th or better for the 3 top sides in our test, and 6th for the other top 4 side. Ranked 13th for Salford and 10th for Notts.
I will put Vision in at 3rd in most important attributes.
Out of the top 4 sides in our test, 3 had Decisions ranked number 1 in their league with the other being well above average at 7th. Salford and Notts had it ranked 2nd and 3rd in their leagues. Not sure. However, St Albans (lowest ranked side in their league) were ranked 6th for Decisions, and finished 6th of our sides, the only top 6 side not to be top ranked.
I think this swings it for Decisions to be the 4th attribute I will be looking for in finding players.
There are 2 other attributes that were of interest, being the only attributes where the top 4 sides in our test all had them ranked 4th or better in their leagues - Composure and Passing. Salford were ranked 1st for Composure and 2nd for Passing, and Notts were ranked 10th for Composure and 9th for Passing. Jury is out but worth thinking about these 2 as well.
PS: @ZaZ, what is happening with the Leamington save. Expand
Thanks for the analysis. About the save, I am waiting for the attribute importance table to complete before I continue, so I can use it to guide my transfers.
Pulsar said: Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good. Expand
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
Egraam said: I'm not 100% sure about TI and PI not stacking - tackle harder and Get Stuck In should be the same thing, but if you have tackle harder on every player and then add Get Stuck In, the tactic intensity increases - it works the same the other way around, if you start removing tackle harder PI from tactic that has Get Stuck In, the tactic intensity decreases anyway. Expand
I remember I removed both get stuck in and run at defense from Blue because they made no difference. All my players have both tackle harder and dribble more often, which might explain why it didn't change anything. However, I alread tested removing player instructions and adding only TIs, and it performed worse. Also, Light Blue has tackle harder PI with stay on feet TI and it concedes very few fouls. Does that mean TI have priority over PI? Or they actually stack in a weird way?
ZaZ said: I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI. Expand
Ohh, it doesn't stack? I always thought those instructions stacked. Will it be the same if I remove from PI and add to TI instead?
We've tried decreasing Acceleration and Pace attributes for different tactics and the result was almost the same. Expand
I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI.
I didn't expect Off The Ball to be useless. For now, we can say lack of Acceleration and Pace have the worst effect, specially for defense (which means it is twice as important for defenders), while Dribble is the third more important stat. Finishing and Working Rate can be safely ignored, while Technique, Off The Ball and Strength are nearly as unimportant.
I look forward to see more. I am curious to know if Tackling or Marking are actually useful. I usually put lots of focus on Tackling. I am also looking forward for First Touch.
P.S.: Now that's a surprise, considering I have always ignored balance. It didn't affect GF so much, so I assume it's more important in defenders, as well as anticipation.
That moment when you realize finishing is useless. To be honest, I saw somewhere that strikers with low finishing perform better, because finishing has high weight and that means you can get more of other stats. The same for decision. However, I didn't expect finishing to make no difference at all.
P.S.: I look forward for stats like Determination, Aggression and Flair, which cost no points in CA
His Height is 182cm and Jumping Reach is "11" but you've seen my results
Would someone with similar stars but 5 cm more make a difference? Worth changing defenders because of that?
Other than that, two negative things happened. First, I was hiring a player and didn't know the price for his passport (from Australia) would cost 22k euros. When I saw that, I panicked and tried to cancel the deal, but the price for the passport was already paid. Ended up without the player or the passport, and a debt of 22k. Now my projected loss by the end of season is almost 40k euros.
The other negative thing is that I drew Liverpool in FA Cup in case I win the postponed match, against a team one league above. That's impossible to win, but if I get there, the TV revenue should definitely save my team for the next two or three seasons.
Anyway, gonna play the next couple of matches, for FA Trophy and FA Cup, then I post some results, as well as a picture of my squad attributes.
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
Tier S: Acceleration and Pace
Tier A: Agility and Dribbling
Tier B: Balance and Vision
Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing
Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
We covered 6 leagues with the top ranked side and the bottom ranked side for each league. So I looked at the top ranked side that performed the worst and looked at the attributes where they were ranked top or second in the league overall going in to the season. Salford performed the worst of the top ranked sides, being substantially below the other top ranked sides with just 1.844 points per game, and even below one of the bottomed ranked sides.
Interestingly they also had the highest number of attribute rankings at highest or second highest in the league. I looked at all these attributes, because you would expect if these mattered Salford would have performed much better.
Interestingly Salford only had 2 attributes that ranked badly, both at 23rd for their league (the remainder average just over 4th). These attributes were Acceleration and Pace. The second worst performing side of the top ranked sides, Notts County also performed badly on just these 2 attributes plus Determination. Adding weight to these attributes, is that St Albans were ranked 2nd and 3rd for these in their league and they were easily our best lowest ranked side beating Salford in points per game. All the top 4 sides in our test were ranked above average in Acceleration and 3 were ranked above average for Pace.
Safe to say Acceleration and Pace are very important.
Next I looked at where an attribute was ranked 4th or better for the 3 of the 4 top scoring sides and not in the top 10 for Salford or Notts. The one that stood out is Vision. Ranked 4th or better for the 3 top sides in our test, and 6th for the other top 4 side. Ranked 13th for Salford and 10th for Notts.
I will put Vision in at 3rd in most important attributes.
Out of the top 4 sides in our test, 3 had Decisions ranked number 1 in their league with the other being well above average at 7th. Salford and Notts had it ranked 2nd and 3rd in their leagues. Not sure. However, St Albans (lowest ranked side in their league) were ranked 6th for Decisions, and finished 6th of our sides, the only top 6 side not to be top ranked.
I think this swings it for Decisions to be the 4th attribute I will be looking for in finding players.
There are 2 other attributes that were of interest, being the only attributes where the top 4 sides in our test all had them ranked 4th or better in their leagues - Composure and Passing. Salford were ranked 1st for Composure and 2nd for Passing, and Notts were ranked 10th for Composure and 9th for Passing. Jury is out but worth thinking about these 2 as well.
PS: @ZaZ, what is happening with the Leamington save.
Thanks for the analysis. About the save, I am waiting for the attribute importance table to complete before I continue, so I can use it to guide my transfers.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good.
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
I remember I removed both get stuck in and run at defense from Blue because they made no difference. All my players have both tackle harder and dribble more often, which might explain why it didn't change anything. However, I alread tested removing player instructions and adding only TIs, and it performed worse. Also, Light Blue has tackle harder PI with stay on feet TI and it concedes very few fouls. Does that mean TI have priority over PI? Or they actually stack in a weird way?
Ohh, it doesn't stack? I always thought those instructions stacked. Will it be the same if I remove from PI and add to TI instead?
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/615-pep-guardiola-s-barcelona-masterpiece-4-3-3/
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/618-4-2-3-1-road-to-glory-fm21-tiki-taka-tactics/
We've tried decreasing Acceleration and Pace attributes for different tactics and the result was almost the same.
I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI.
I look forward to see more. I am curious to know if Tackling or Marking are actually useful. I usually put lots of focus on Tackling. I am also looking forward for First Touch.
P.S.: Now that's a surprise, considering I have always ignored balance. It didn't affect GF so much, so I assume it's more important in defenders, as well as anticipation.
P.S.: I look forward for stats like Determination, Aggression and Flair, which cost no points in CA