SEBASTCARP said: This tactic is created by emulating the last tactical system used by MARCELO GALLARDO in RIVER PLATE, which he used with a large part of the players emerged from the RIVER PLATE quarry, imposing his soccer style as a hallmark, aimed at fans and non-fans of RIVER PLATE , I would love to submit it to your analysis P.D greetings and thanks from Argentina Expand
River Plate had the best football in South America for a while, together with some brazilian names like Palmeiras and Santos. It will be interesting to see how this one does. Last matches of them I watched were against Palmeiras last year, where they got completely dominated at home and then dominated completely away, but lost in the aggregate.
artemis220 said: Ha ha, you are so humorous. In fact, if you look at this picture upside down, it is more like the word "丂" in Chinese characters. Expand
Mirror it to the other direction and call it "Zorro". (Not sure if anyone does not know him, but he used to cut a Z at his enemy's chest.)
Haha, that would be funny, but I think most of those people don't actually do because they are mean or want to steal the idea, but simply because they don't understand yet why it's wrong. Some of them are even more innocent and just think their small tweak was amazing and want to test it, but don't know they need to tell where the base came from.
ta2199 said: @ZaZ I did some changes here. Can you check it ? Low intensity but still great result. I change DW to W cause I remmember from last FM Winger work better with Striker than DW Expand
Gonna test it here, thanks! I see the changes in pass into space, ease off tackle and slow pace down. I will tell you how it compares in my tests.
P.S.: Results are promising, gonna keep testing to see which of the instructions are really making the difference and then upload it. Does someone know if Stay On Feet has effect on players with Ease Off Tackles? I heard it also affects pressing intensity.
One thing that could help would be to not test tactics that are too similar to another that was already tested, unless they are marked as a tweak. I believe there is a rule about that in how tactics are tested, saying you won't test things that are too close, to avoid the use of brute force. But then we would need to have a clear understanding of what is considered "too close", and that's up to debate.
99357 said: and so? credits should be given where its due or fm-arena is encouraging silent plagiarism many will just take a top tactic here, change few roles and call it their own Expand
To be fair, the author of that tactic explicitly said he based it on Blue and Fanatic. I don't mind people tweaking my tactics, as long as they give proper credit. It's exactly because people were working around Blue that I felt free to explore other tatical shapes, since it wouldn't make much sense if everyone was exploring in the same direction.
It's a hard issue because the more we test, the more we get close to a set of instructions or roles that work better than others. After some point, it's hard to run away from that if you want your tactic to be competitive. I don't think anyone has a problem with using someone's else tactic as a base, the problem is finding out when some tactic becomes unique enough to allow claiming it as your own.
In my opinion, any tactic with too few changes, like only two or three visible differences (not counting player instructions or set pieces), should be called a tweak instead of having a unique name. In those cases, it's pretty obvious credits are mandatory. It can still have a unique name with the base name, like "Revelation SS Tweak - Rush" or "Rush (Revelation Tweak)", for example.
The hard part is defining when changes are deep enough to stop being a tweak. I would say you can't use team instructions and player instructions to define that, as most top tactics use a very similar set of those instructions (which don't need to be called "Blue instructions" anymore at this point). However, some team instructions actually change gameplay drastically and should count for tactic uniqueness, like low tempo, pressing less, regroup, hold shape, shoot on sight and low line of engagement, for example.
Other than those more unique team instructions, what should be counted are basically different team positions and roles. Any tactic that only changes one position, like pulling a striker from AF to SS, should be considered a tweak (unless it's something that has been historically used by some user, in previous patches/versions of the game). That also counts for making some shape into a three defender tactic, for example, or just moving the wings. More than that and it gets in the spot where it's fine to either call it a tweak or claim ownership of the tactic.
Changes in roles, however, have a smaller weight than change in position. I would say changing the roles of two or three positions should still count as a tweak, if there aren't any other changes other than that. When the changes hit half the team, or when you change roles together with some team instruction or position, then it starts becoming more unique.
One way to address the problem could be, for example, to add a field at tactic creation to link to the tactic used as base, if it's a tweak.
Some people tested Ease Off Tackles with high intensity tactics and said it was harmful. It might have better effect on low intensity tactics like Cyan.
cptdoggo said: Glad to see someone else using F9's! They're pretty damn good this year and really fun to watch. What are the specific settings on the testing league? Would you mind sharing it @ZaZ ? Expand
All leagues and professional clubs other than England are removed, including international cups. Also, all players from Premier League have maximum consistency and important matches, as well as minimum injury proneness. In the save file I provided, transfers are also blocked during first season.
ta2199 said: Do you plan to make a "condition saving tactic" ? Look like this year tactics has to go in pair. Expand
I will look after that after next patch, since new ME will come soon. I first want to know what works before trying to optimize the tactic and build that kind of variation.
ta2199 said: Do that mean we should remove Tackle hard TI ? Expand
In this tactic, I changed all PIs from tackle harder to ease off tackles, and it didn't affect the score at all. It doesn't mean the same will happen to any tactic, but I think it's worth a try.
I guess the results confirm what I said in previous post, that it should be a default instruction for players in this tactic. I recommend people to try the same for your tactics to see if it also holds for high intensity tactics and different formations.
Mark said: Isn't it interesting that it doesn't change the rating. You were right. This may mean we can stop a lot of the red cards people have been getting. Expand
Less cards, less injuries, less fatigue, less tired players needing to rotate... Definitely should be used over tackle harder.
Added a version with Ease Off Tackles to compare and see how it goes. In my tests, I couldn't catch much difference. If results are alike, then the player instruction should become standard (at least for this setup, should test for others) since it reduces cards and energy cost.
P.D greetings and thanks from Argentina
River Plate had the best football in South America for a while, together with some brazilian names like Palmeiras and Santos. It will be interesting to see how this one does. Last matches of them I watched were against Palmeiras last year, where they got completely dominated at home and then dominated completely away, but lost in the aggregate.
Mirror it to the other direction and call it "Zorro". (Not sure if anyone does not know him, but he used to cut a Z at his enemy's chest.)
Haha, that would be funny, but I think most of those people don't actually do because they are mean or want to steal the idea, but simply because they don't understand yet why it's wrong. Some of them are even more innocent and just think their small tweak was amazing and want to test it, but don't know they need to tell where the base came from.
Low intensity but still great result. I change DW to W cause I remmember from last FM Winger work better with Striker than DW
Gonna test it here, thanks! I see the changes in pass into space, ease off tackle and slow pace down. I will tell you how it compares in my tests.
P.S.: Results are promising, gonna keep testing to see which of the instructions are really making the difference and then upload it. Does someone know if Stay On Feet has effect on players with Ease Off Tackles? I heard it also affects pressing intensity.
Good writer.
That's a funny compliment, thanks.
many will just take a top tactic here, change few roles and call it their own
To be fair, the author of that tactic explicitly said he based it on Blue and Fanatic. I don't mind people tweaking my tactics, as long as they give proper credit. It's exactly because people were working around Blue that I felt free to explore other tatical shapes, since it wouldn't make much sense if everyone was exploring in the same direction.
In my opinion, any tactic with too few changes, like only two or three visible differences (not counting player instructions or set pieces), should be called a tweak instead of having a unique name. In those cases, it's pretty obvious credits are mandatory. It can still have a unique name with the base name, like "Revelation SS Tweak - Rush" or "Rush (Revelation Tweak)", for example.
The hard part is defining when changes are deep enough to stop being a tweak. I would say you can't use team instructions and player instructions to define that, as most top tactics use a very similar set of those instructions (which don't need to be called "Blue instructions" anymore at this point). However, some team instructions actually change gameplay drastically and should count for tactic uniqueness, like low tempo, pressing less, regroup, hold shape, shoot on sight and low line of engagement, for example.
Other than those more unique team instructions, what should be counted are basically different team positions and roles. Any tactic that only changes one position, like pulling a striker from AF to SS, should be considered a tweak (unless it's something that has been historically used by some user, in previous patches/versions of the game). That also counts for making some shape into a three defender tactic, for example, or just moving the wings. More than that and it gets in the spot where it's fine to either call it a tweak or claim ownership of the tactic.
Changes in roles, however, have a smaller weight than change in position. I would say changing the roles of two or three positions should still count as a tweak, if there aren't any other changes other than that. When the changes hit half the team, or when you change roles together with some team instruction or position, then it starts becoming more unique.
One way to address the problem could be, for example, to add a field at tactic creation to link to the tactic used as base, if it's a tweak.
??
Speaking english is a good start. Then, click share tactic here https://fm-arena.com/board/7-football-manager-2022-tactics-sharing-section/, and make sure to add screenshots of results and the tactic screen.
Test switching all Tackle Harder PIs for Ease Off Tackles. In my control tactic (Cyan), it gives similar results using way less energy.
P.S.: Oops, instant reply.
All leagues and professional clubs other than England are removed, including international cups. Also, all players from Premier League have maximum consistency and important matches, as well as minimum injury proneness. In the save file I provided, transfers are also blocked during first season.
Then I start naming the tactics like "RBG03AF84ManC300ptsAllCups".
I will look after that after next patch, since new ME will come soon. I first want to know what works before trying to optimize the tactic and build that kind of variation.
In this tactic, I changed all PIs from tackle harder to ease off tackles, and it didn't affect the score at all. It doesn't mean the same will happen to any tactic, but I think it's worth a try.
Mark said: Isn't it interesting that it doesn't change the rating. You were right. This may mean we can stop a lot of the red cards people have been getting.
Less cards, less injuries, less fatigue, less tired players needing to rotate... Definitely should be used over tackle harder.
I've heard @ZaZ did a good possession tactic. You can try ask him.
The one I posted earlier is in the 5.3 range. I will try to improve it to at least 5.5.
Not sure what team is that, but you destroyed the league!