Milakus said: It could be the 4.2 hit the highest RNG. I think it can be as high as 3 points. Expand
There is a good chance of that too. I will keep working on Water before I can play again the career on weekend, and I think it works better without shorter passing and with wide IF. However, after testing a bit more, I think Counter-Press gives some interesting moves in game that match what I am looking for. I also want to play without Roll It Out, because I want faster counter attacks. I hope things work well on that direction.
Keep in mind that it is possible that overlap is just better. I am exploring the other road because I think it matches more what I'm trying to accomplish on the field, and I believe it has potential to good results. However, my beliefs are worth nothing if tests prove me wrong.
keithb said: What about distribute quickly? I have removed it and find it better
No 'run at defence'? Expand
Players already have dibble more, so no need for run at defense. That gives me more freedom to tweak them individually on testing. About distribute quickly, this patch is pretty counter-attack oriented, so the faster you get back to the game, the better.
Sane said: Perhaps the standard pass was affected instead of the short pass.
And why do you always refuse counter-press? Expand
Counter-press doesn't make much of a difference, so no reason to add it. About passing, I have also tried shorter and it usually is worse for me. I also don't see much reason to test what has already been tested extensively, which is why I am trying a route with less overlap.
P.S.: I will add a version with counter-press and shorter passing to see how it goes.
Milakus said: Why do you consider overlaps as a bad thing? Expand
Not necessarily bad, but I would like IFs to get closer to the area through the flanks instead of moving to the mid too early. That's the area where most of the interceptions happen.
I seriously can't identify why it's not working at least in the level of 4.2. It gets better results with IF wide instead of neutral or narrow. Is the Roll It Out making such a difference?
I think that is more related to training than players themselves. If you check the standard training sessions, you will see too much focus on technical attributes, and too little focus on physical. I also believe they only do individual focus for Quickness on very slow players, and that makes players fill their CA with other attributes instead of speed.
IF wider to reduce overlaps, and removed roll it to avoid situations like the one below. It should also allow goalkeepers to use their attributes to start counter-attacks more efficiently, using kicks or throws.
Some people have asked to try an attack mentality tactic, so here it is. I had to add shorter passing for it to work well, because attack mentality makes football more direct. It is based on Water 4.2.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
keithb said: Im doing a great save with SpVgg Bayreuth starting in Bundesliga3 and its been my best save in a long, long time. I do use downloaded tactics and fmscout though. I dont mind the tactics so much but I should try to switch over to not using fm scout. Back-to-back promotions and mid table in first Bundesliga 1 season. Get hammered in some games, but the late winners and comebacks are so enjoyable. RNG seems to have leveled out too, now im a better/higher rep side. Expand
Glad to hear that! I hope you lift the trophy next year.
I don't see much problem on people using FM Scout, I just think it changes how you experience the game. When you use the tool, it becomes more focused in the long run, since you hire players thinking about their potential. When you don't use it, then it becomes more short run, thinking about their current attributes, and you get more attached to players. Both are valid ways of playing, and some people prefer one style more than the other.
kvasir said: Seems like you're doing great. Excited about the rest.
Do you ever change the team mentality late in the game? For example: you were leading City by 2 goals in minute 80 - in this situation could it be beneficial to change your team's mentality from "balanced" to "very defensive"? In theory, they should try less risky balls, translating in less passes being intercepted and thus less chances for the opposition.
I'm yet to play FM 23, but I'm doing this in FM 22 with your ZaZ - Green. If I'm up by 1 goal in minute 85, I just go Very Defensive (from Positive) and set time wasting to the maximum (from none).
Wonder what you think. Expand
No, I don't change mentality. I tried already other mentalities, but they seem to concede more (or at least as much) than balanced. Instead, when I have a good lead, I switch to Light Water. In some matches, I also switch the sides of wingbacks and inside forwards to give them match experience, because I like them to be good at both sides for versatility (in fact, all my wingbacks and inside forwards are training for the opposite side, and not the side they play in).
About Green very defensive, I'm not sure if it brings much benefit, since I didn't test it. The tactic was already solid enough in the back to me.
Ten more matches gone, and things have been a rollercoaster. First I got several victories in a row, including against teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City. Then I entered a bad spell with five matches without a victory. Usually those spells last around five games, so I hope my team recovers very soon.
A few notable matches are below. - Victory against Chelsea at home with only 32% of possession. I think goals are way more important than possession, but I know some people disagree. - Victory against Leicester at their home. I picked this one because if you win bigger sides by two or more goals, you need to be sure to tell your team to not get overconfident. - Victory against Arsenal at their home. - A draw against Aston Vila, in which we were winning until 94 minutes, then my goalkeeper passed the ball to their attacker when there was no danger. - Epic victory against Manchester City at our home. I will comment about this match below.
In this match against City, they were winning at half time. Some people like to ask me what to do in this kind of situation, so I picked this match to explain what I usually do and took some screenshots.
The first thing to do is to motivate your players with team talk. Usually, I like to let the players know how disappointed I am, so they understand they need to put more effort in the second half.
Second thing to do is to make the right subs. In this case, I removed the player with yellow card and nervous, as well as the lowest rates of the match. For their places, I picked the two motivated players with perfect morale, and the option that was not very happy with his playing time (have to think about the rest of the season). After that, I told them individually that I have faith on them.
Finally, I used shouts whenever available to give that last push. My rules are simple: - Encourage if not winning (drawing or losing). - No pressure if winning on the edge against stronger team. - Praise if winning for more than 10 minutes. - Berate if losing by large margin (two or more) for more than 10 minutes.
Those steps don't guarantee that you will comeback, but it make your team play better than during first half, which increases your chances of winning. Remember to tell they did a good job if they manage to comeback!
Other interesting things that happened during those matches were a proposal for a friendly tournament, paying me 110k euros, which I promptly accepted. It doesn't matter if your players are doing well or not, you can always play with youth team if needed. I also like to add friendly matches for the U21 one day after matches from main team, so I can give match fitness to players that didn't participate in the match day.
Since my form was good and I got some money, I decided to upgrade training facilities and youth facilities. That doesn't contribute to the goal of winning the UCL in three years, but I like the idea of leaving the club in a better situation than I received, because success is not guaranteed.
I guess that's it for now. Let me know your thoughts and suggestions! I will probably finish this first season next weekend. For anyone interested in checking players or teams on this run, here is the save file.
keithb said: I get that. I just feel the way they have tried to make the game harder, well its how it appears to me, is with stuff like this. Expand
For me, the biggest problem of the game right now is the number of interceptions. It seems like opponents get a boost of speed when they are running to intercept the ball, and the ball is also attracted to their feet when they stretch, allowing them to not only block the pass, but also gain possession. I think it's the thing they will fix on next patch, allowing other tactics to also play through the middle.
keithb said: Holding onto leads and keeping clean sheets as an unerdog seems so hard this year. Your result away to Newcastle is the kind of thing im talking about. I went 3-1 up at Anfield and lost 8-4 LOL. All my defenders got 6.2+ hahaha, except lb who got a 5.9. None of them scored. I dont understand any of that.
Anyway enjoying your thread and good luck with the rest of the season. Expand
Thanks! We have to remember we are actually underdogs, which means the other teams are usually stronger. That means they often start losing because they are nervous, but after they start scoring, they gain a boost of morale that makes them have higher chance to score again, especially since they have better players.
Sane said: @ZaZ Hey, are you using the solid version similar to fm 22? For example, when you win during the match by 2+ goals.
What is the best way to keep the score or play against the strongest favorites in this fm? Expand
Other than changing tactic completely, I didn't find many ways to concede less yet. I know you can change IF to support duty, and volantes to DM on support, but I didn't do experiments on that yet.
kvasir said: Do you use any opposition instructions? Just to make sure I got it right - no Genie Scout allowed, yup? Good luck, curious to see if you can make it.
I was wondering the same thing. The logical conclusion I came up with is that the only way to achieve such thing is by adapting your tactic permanently taking in consideration the players you have available and the opposition . I really can’t see a plug&play tactic make Bournemouth win the title in the first season, although I’d love to because I’m not a great tactician. Expand
I don't use opposition instructions, and leaving those to the Ass usually makes tactic worse somehow. I know if you understand what you are doing, then you can improve the tactic, but I don't have a set of suggestions that always work.
About Genie Scout, it's not like it is forbidden, but it's kind of pointless since I set a rule to only make transfers through the new scout focus system. They usually bring a small list of players, so it's not hard to check them and filter manually. I mean, in this first season, I didn't even have money to buy players, and the ones I tried to sell didn't get any offer. (P.S.: I won't use Genie Scout.)
Played the first 10 matches of the season, and things went pretty well. I changed Blue 5.0 so both wingbacks and inside forwards are at default width, and removed shorter passing, because results at testing table were poor.
One of the things I do every single week is sort players by training rate and praise the development of each player with 8.05+. You can see the difference in morale in the pictures below (before x after). It might not look like much, but it is the easiest way to keep morale high during the season.
I got two good suggestions of defenders to hire by scout team, with pictures below. I offered contract to both for loan (not enough money for transfer), and Mason Holgate accepted to play on my team this season (the other accepted another offer). That was the only transfer for the season, and he is on the same level as the other three defenders (but I prefer two others for main team). The player he will substitute is James Hill, with a picture also below.
I have separated a couple of notable matches to comment. - Against Crystal Palace, we started conceding at 4 and getting a player sent off at 31, but we managed to turn around in the second half with one less player. - Against Newcastle away, we were winning until 90 minutes, then they scored 3 in a row, which was very frustrating. - We managed to defeat Liverpool away! - We also smashed Manchester United in our home, which felt very good.
In the end, we lost Carabao Cup in the first match, but things are going very well on the league. As you can see, we are together with the top pack, and there is a chance we might score UCL in the first season (I don't believe in title, though). If anyone wants to see more details about players or anything else, the save is in this link.
P.S.: Another important thing I do but forgot to say is to create some friendlies with U21 in the day right after matches (in weeks with only one match). That allows me to use all players that didn't play and need match fitness on that friendly, giving enough time for them to recover before next match.
Let me know your thoughts, questions or suggestions!
If I understand correctly, narrow WB with wide IF would favor Underlaps, which are not working very well in this patch. I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction). By my observations, the biggest problem in this patch is that interceptions were buffed, so passes through the middle have high chance to concede possession.
There is a good chance of that too. I will keep working on Water before I can play again the career on weekend, and I think it works better without shorter passing and with wide IF. However, after testing a bit more, I think Counter-Press gives some interesting moves in game that match what I am looking for. I also want to play without Roll It Out, because I want faster counter attacks. I hope things work well on that direction.
Keep in mind that it is possible that overlap is just better. I am exploring the other road because I think it matches more what I'm trying to accomplish on the field, and I believe it has potential to good results. However, my beliefs are worth nothing if tests prove me wrong.
No 'run at defence'?
Players already have dibble more, so no need for run at defense. That gives me more freedom to tweak them individually on testing. About distribute quickly, this patch is pretty counter-attack oriented, so the faster you get back to the game, the better.
And why do you always refuse counter-press?
Counter-press doesn't make much of a difference, so no reason to add it. About passing, I have also tried shorter and it usually is worse for me. I also don't see much reason to test what has already been tested extensively, which is why I am trying a route with less overlap.
P.S.: I will add a version with counter-press and shorter passing to see how it goes.
I might be wrong and it might be better without wide IF, but every time I test IF wide in my experiments, it gives me better results.
Not necessarily bad, but I would like IFs to get closer to the area through the flanks instead of moving to the mid too early. That's the area where most of the interceptions happen.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
Glad to hear that! I hope you lift the trophy next year.
I don't see much problem on people using FM Scout, I just think it changes how you experience the game. When you use the tool, it becomes more focused in the long run, since you hire players thinking about their potential. When you don't use it, then it becomes more short run, thinking about their current attributes, and you get more attached to players. Both are valid ways of playing, and some people prefer one style more than the other.
Almost the same, except that IF is not set to wide.
Milakus said: Good thread, I'm looking forward to your result.
Thanks! Nice to have you here. I wish there were more people sharing their runs here in FM-Arena as well.
Do you ever change the team mentality late in the game? For example: you were leading City by 2 goals in minute 80 - in this situation could it be beneficial to change your team's mentality from "balanced" to "very defensive"? In theory, they should try less risky balls, translating in less passes being intercepted and thus less chances for the opposition.
I'm yet to play FM 23, but I'm doing this in FM 22 with your ZaZ - Green. If I'm up by 1 goal in minute 85, I just go Very Defensive (from Positive) and set time wasting to the maximum (from none).
Wonder what you think.
No, I don't change mentality. I tried already other mentalities, but they seem to concede more (or at least as much) than balanced. Instead, when I have a good lead, I switch to Light Water. In some matches, I also switch the sides of wingbacks and inside forwards to give them match experience, because I like them to be good at both sides for versatility (in fact, all my wingbacks and inside forwards are training for the opposite side, and not the side they play in).
About Green very defensive, I'm not sure if it brings much benefit, since I didn't test it. The tactic was already solid enough in the back to me.
A few notable matches are below.
- Victory against Chelsea at home with only 32% of possession. I think goals are way more important than possession, but I know some people disagree.
- Victory against Leicester at their home. I picked this one because if you win bigger sides by two or more goals, you need to be sure to tell your team to not get overconfident.
- Victory against Arsenal at their home.
- A draw against Aston Vila, in which we were winning until 94 minutes, then my goalkeeper passed the ball to their attacker when there was no danger.
- Epic victory against Manchester City at our home. I will comment about this match below.
In this match against City, they were winning at half time. Some people like to ask me what to do in this kind of situation, so I picked this match to explain what I usually do and took some screenshots.
The first thing to do is to motivate your players with team talk. Usually, I like to let the players know how disappointed I am, so they understand they need to put more effort in the second half.
Second thing to do is to make the right subs. In this case, I removed the player with yellow card and nervous, as well as the lowest rates of the match. For their places, I picked the two motivated players with perfect morale, and the option that was not very happy with his playing time (have to think about the rest of the season). After that, I told them individually that I have faith on them.
Finally, I used shouts whenever available to give that last push. My rules are simple:
- Encourage if not winning (drawing or losing).
- No pressure if winning on the edge against stronger team.
- Praise if winning for more than 10 minutes.
- Berate if losing by large margin (two or more) for more than 10 minutes.
Those steps don't guarantee that you will comeback, but it make your team play better than during first half, which increases your chances of winning. Remember to tell they did a good job if they manage to comeback!
Other interesting things that happened during those matches were a proposal for a friendly tournament, paying me 110k euros, which I promptly accepted. It doesn't matter if your players are doing well or not, you can always play with youth team if needed. I also like to add friendly matches for the U21 one day after matches from main team, so I can give match fitness to players that didn't participate in the match day.
Since my form was good and I got some money, I decided to upgrade training facilities and youth facilities. That doesn't contribute to the goal of winning the UCL in three years, but I like the idea of leaving the club in a better situation than I received, because success is not guaranteed.
I guess that's it for now. Let me know your thoughts and suggestions! I will probably finish this first season next weekend. For anyone interested in checking players or teams on this run, here is the save file.
For me, the biggest problem of the game right now is the number of interceptions. It seems like opponents get a boost of speed when they are running to intercept the ball, and the ball is also attracted to their feet when they stretch, allowing them to not only block the pass, but also gain possession. I think it's the thing they will fix on next patch, allowing other tactics to also play through the middle.
Anyway enjoying your thread and good luck with the rest of the season.
Thanks! We have to remember we are actually underdogs, which means the other teams are usually stronger. That means they often start losing because they are nervous, but after they start scoring, they gain a boost of morale that makes them have higher chance to score again, especially since they have better players.
What is the best way to keep the score or play against the strongest favorites in this fm?
Other than changing tactic completely, I didn't find many ways to concede less yet. I know you can change IF to support duty, and volantes to DM on support, but I didn't do experiments on that yet.
kvasir said: Do you use any opposition instructions?
Just to make sure I got it right - no Genie Scout allowed, yup?
Good luck, curious to see if you can make it.
I was wondering the same thing. The logical conclusion I came up with is that the only way to achieve such thing is by adapting your tactic permanently taking in consideration the players you have available and the opposition . I really can’t see a plug&play tactic make Bournemouth win the title in the first season, although I’d love to because I’m not a great tactician.
I don't use opposition instructions, and leaving those to the Ass usually makes tactic worse somehow. I know if you understand what you are doing, then you can improve the tactic, but I don't have a set of suggestions that always work.
About Genie Scout, it's not like it is forbidden, but it's kind of pointless since I set a rule to only make transfers through the new scout focus system. They usually bring a small list of players, so it's not hard to check them and filter manually. I mean, in this first season, I didn't even have money to buy players, and the ones I tried to sell didn't get any offer. (P.S.: I won't use Genie Scout.)
One of the things I do every single week is sort players by training rate and praise the development of each player with 8.05+. You can see the difference in morale in the pictures below (before x after). It might not look like much, but it is the easiest way to keep morale high during the season.
I got two good suggestions of defenders to hire by scout team, with pictures below. I offered contract to both for loan (not enough money for transfer), and Mason Holgate accepted to play on my team this season (the other accepted another offer). That was the only transfer for the season, and he is on the same level as the other three defenders (but I prefer two others for main team). The player he will substitute is James Hill, with a picture also below.
I have separated a couple of notable matches to comment.
- Against Crystal Palace, we started conceding at 4 and getting a player sent off at 31, but we managed to turn around in the second half with one less player.
- Against Newcastle away, we were winning until 90 minutes, then they scored 3 in a row, which was very frustrating.
- We managed to defeat Liverpool away!
- We also smashed Manchester United in our home, which felt very good.
In the end, we lost Carabao Cup in the first match, but things are going very well on the league. As you can see, we are together with the top pack, and there is a chance we might score UCL in the first season (I don't believe in title, though). If anyone wants to see more details about players or anything else, the save is in this link.
P.S.: Another important thing I do but forgot to say is to create some friendlies with U21 in the day right after matches (in weeks with only one match). That allows me to use all players that didn't play and need match fitness on that friendly, giving enough time for them to recover before next match.
Let me know your thoughts, questions or suggestions!
If I understand correctly, narrow WB with wide IF would favor Underlaps, which are not working very well in this patch. I just wonder if it's better to have neutral WB and IF, or if they are better both wide to stretch the field away from midfield (in a context without overlap team instruction). By my observations, the biggest problem in this patch is that interceptions were buffed, so passes through the middle have high chance to concede possession.