Mark
fm arena user said: Hi Zaz, i have another question in terms of team building, which of those to Center Backs Would You buy?

CD 1

Marking 15
Tackling 15
Heading 15
Jumping 15
Speed 11
Acc 11
Dribling 11
Anticipation 11

CD 2
Marking 11
Tackling 11
Heading 11
Jumping 11
Speed 15
Acc 15
Dribling 15
Antycypation 15


I agree with @ZaZ that Acc and Pace are most important attributes for DC and especially in lower leagues. The stats you gave don't look like lower league though. The chinese site had the following as the most important stats ie over 50 rating:



I think my answer would depend on some of these other stats as I dont think the margin is big based on the ones you have provided.
Mark said: OK so I had a quick play with the ratings files. The first observation is that you need to balance the ratings files. I learned this from last years attempt. What do I mean by this, well have a look at the screenshot below. There should not be major discrepancies between positions ie you should be getting most positions covered in the top 50 or so top players.

I have done a quick run of the top score for each position:



All that means that the ratings weightings for each tactic in the Genie Scout Rating file setup needs to be adjusted.

Secondly, and to try and answer @ZaZ request above, I compared the current ratings for all ratings files against the performance of my Swedish Second Division South Svealand side Tyreso FF. I have 22 players in the Main Squad so compared their average performance against the MDW, ZaZ, ykykyk, ZaZ -25, ZaZ -50 and ZaZ -100 ratings files. I have only used ratings for the position selected.

Here are the results:



Disclaimer: I have used players out of the positions identified in the results, but in the main they have played the positions indicated. In addition I have used 2 main tactics, Dragons Breath that uses an MC instead of AMC, and ZaZ Blue DM, but given the ratings files don't all have MC ratings I just used AMC.

To answer @ZaZ question the ZaZ-100 ended up equal with MDW in picking 8 of the best 11 positional players. It does need balancing to make it more usable though. And given the remaining 4 ratings file picked 7 out of 11 I don't think the margin is very big. All are definitely usable.

Now if we look at average % difference from the best rated team the order is MDW, ykykyk, ZaZ -50, ZaZ -25, ZaZ, ZaZ -100.

Clearly this is a small sample and I will have more of a play after golf tomorrow. But I think if you wanted to use one of the ratings files above, I would go with the ZaZ -50.


I am now running more thorough testing to see which GS Ratings work best. I have taken the ZaZ EPL Test League and downloaded the ratings for EPL players for each ratings filter including the GS default. I set up coaches for the top 9 teams and set all tactics to ZaZ Blue DM. I will do at least 3 runs and then look at the predictions for each position versus the end player ratings for each position.

It should be interesting to see performance against this data set.
ZaZ said: @Mark, I made three poor man's version and I would like to know your opinion in which one gives the best results. Can you test the three and tell me which one you like the most? Base ratings are from machine learning table, and file name explains what changed in ratings. All of them try to focus on most important attributes in some way.

Version 1: all ratings minus 25 (removes lower ratings and increases % gap of remaining)
Version 2: all ratings under 50 minuts 25 (removes lower ratings and keeps gap of top)
Version 3: all ratings minus difference to 100 (removes lower ratings and increases absolute gap of remaining)
* Gap means the difference in rating between two attributes. For example, 25 to 40 have a gap of 15.

Anyone else's opinion would also be appreciated!


OK so I had a quick play with the ratings files. The first observation is that you need to balance the ratings files. I learned this from last years attempt. What do I mean by this, well have a look at the screenshot below. There should not be major discrepancies between positions ie you should be getting most positions covered in the top 50 or so top players.

I have done a quick run of the top score for each position:



All that means that the ratings weightings for each tactic in the Genie Scout Rating file setup needs to be adjusted.

Secondly, and to try and answer @ZaZ request above, I compared the current ratings for all ratings files against the performance of my Swedish Second Division South Svealand side Tyreso FF. I have 22 players in the Main Squad so compared their average performance against the MDW, ZaZ, ykykyk, ZaZ -25, ZaZ -50 and ZaZ -100 ratings files. I have only used ratings for the position selected.

Here are the results:



Disclaimer: I have used players out of the positions identified in the results, but in the main they have played the positions indicated. In addition I have used 2 main tactics, Dragons Breath that uses an MC instead of AMC, and ZaZ Blue DM, but given the ratings files don't all have MC ratings I just used AMC.

To answer @ZaZ question the ZaZ-100 ended up equal with MDW in picking 8 of the best 11 positional players. It does need balancing to make it more usable though. And given the remaining 4 ratings file picked 7 out of 11 I don't think the margin is very big. All are definitely usable.

Now if we look at average % difference from the best rated team the order is MDW, ykykyk, ZaZ -50, ZaZ -25, ZaZ, ZaZ -100.

Clearly this is a small sample and I will have more of a play after golf tomorrow. But I think if you wanted to use one of the ratings files above, I would go with the ZaZ -50.
You will need to add some screenshots - see attached link

New Tactic Rules
ZaZ said: This is the FM Genie Scout filter based on the study of ykykyk05251 for best attributes for each position of Blue 3.0 RPM (aka Blue DM). The study used machine learning to get the weights.

Keep in mind that two attributes of the table have ranges from -100 to 0 in FM Genie Scout instead of 0 to 100: eccentricity and punching tendency. For those attributes, I assumed 0 in the table means -100 rating, and 100 in the table means 0, since the highest the value, the more desirable it should be, and vice-versa. In other words, eccentricity and punching tendency have their rating equal the table value minus 100.


I think this needs a little work to balance out the ratings. As it sits it favours Strikers and AMs too much and there are no GKs anywhere to be seen. The weightings have only been developed by position and not across all positions so need adjusting in terms of weight for each position. I would also like to derive the positions not covered.

I will have a play and update it next week. I have a very busy weekend unfortunately.
Zippo said: If you ask my opinion then I would not blindly follow it.

For example, if look at the central defenders spreadsheet then you'll see that "Long Throws" and "Crossing" has more weight than "Heading" but we know that Central Defenders don't take throw-ins and don't do crosses but they take a lot of headers so I don't understand how "Long Throws" and "Crossing" can be more important than Heading for Central Defenders... that doesn't make sense at all :)


@Zippo if you look at my spreadsheet conversion I don't think what you are saying is correct
Wigo said: wow lots of info, hard to understand everything but in excel sheet but as i understand it shows that for example composure is most important for CD(80) and DM(60) and for rest of positions are not so important?

Yes you need to be looking at the higher numbers for each position to get an idea on what to look for in players in those positions. Interesting work I think
We had the linked post below from @showmake which linked to a Chinese site where some players had done analysis of positional attributes.

Post by @showmake

Below is the Google translation of the text from the site but I will also include at the top a summary of their data against the ZaZ Blue DM tactic by @ZaZ.



I now intend to produce a Genie Scout rating based on the summary data above. I will share it in the next few days for anyone that want s to test it.

This does appear to loosely align with but build on some of the work already discussed in this forum.
Here is the text from the PlayGM web site.

[Player experience] Share player attribute utility calculated based on deep neural network

This post was last edited by C·Gunners at 2021-12-30 14:36

Basic introduction:
1. We are a basketball manager game development team. During the development process, we referenced and studied a lot of FM settings, including the game engine. I learned a lot of game knowledge from the bursting room. The purpose of this post is to give back to the community.

2. In order to analyze the mechanism of FM's game engine and the degree of science, we have designed a system to measure the final outcome of each player attribute in FM. The degree of influence.

3. fm-arena.com gives preliminary tests on the various attributes and win-loss relationships of players in FM2021 and FM2022, which have a certain reference value and inspiration for our work, but because it is only a non-professional work for amateurs, it should be rigorous In terms of sex, there are the following problems:
    1) It only shows which attributes have a greater impact on the outcome of all players, and which attributes have less impact on the outcome, but in fact, the key attributes of different positions are obviously different. Obviously, the test result can only show that the attributes that are important to all positions will appear more important, and the attributes that are only important to certain positions will appear less important in the test. For example, the test results have almost no impact on the outcome of shooting, but explosive power has a great impact on the outcome. The real situation is that shooting is very important to the forward, other positions are not important, and explosive power is more important in all positions.
    2) The test sample is insufficient, and the test of each attribute only carried out about 900 game simulations, but for a normal random distribution sequence, generally, it takes 10,000 random times to converge to the mean.
    3) The influence of attribute on the outcome is non-linear. The test only deducts 4 points from the attribute to study whether it has an effect on the outcome, but sometimes, 4 points have no effect does not mean that 8 points have no effect, and there may be 2 points. It is close to 4 o'clock.
    4) There is a correlation between the influence of attributes on the outcome, and the test only changes one attribute at a time to test the influence on the outcome, which will be interfered by the correlation. For example, a breakthrough can speed up when lying on the ball, relying on physical fitness instead of dribbling, or relying on dribbling. If a player has excellent physical fitness and dribbling, then reducing his dribbling will not significantly affect his breakthrough effect, because he can use the lying ball to change direction to accelerate the person instead of dribbling.
    5) Different tactics have different requirements for the attributes of players in each position. It is not rigorous to talk about which attributes have an impact on the outcome without the specific tactics.

4. We use artificial intelligence to study the importance of attributes. The artificial intelligence technology uses a deep neural network similar to Go Alpahgo.

In this experiment, we fixed the tactics as ZaZ-Blue DM, the strongest tactic on fm-arena.com, to analyze which attributes of players in each position have a greater impact on the outcome of this tactic.

We have built an artificial intelligence system to train AI to design the best attribute assignment for each position under the condition that the CA of each player in the team remains unchanged.

The general process is as follows. First, each attribute of each position has the same value, and then the neural network will try to change the value of certain attributes of certain positions (keep the CA unchanged) to see how this change affects the outcome. Positive or negative, in order to continue to iterate on the multi-layer network, knowing that iteratively produces the best 11-person combination that AI thinks.

We trained about 140 machines for 3 weeks, simulated 40 million games, and got convergence results.

5. In order to verify whether the best 11-person attribute assignment given by AI is really the best, we conducted a result verification test to design three groups of teams, one team’s player attributes are evenly distributed, the other group It is the best 11-person attribute allocation scheme given manually by senior players based on their game experience. The last group is given by AI. It was put into a test league for 100,000 matches. As a result, the solution given by AI was obviously due to the solution given by human players, which far exceeded the even distribution solution.

in conclusion:
For ZaZ-Blue DM tactics, the degree of importance of the attributes we get for each position is as follows (in order to facilitate the player to view, we have processed the value to 5, for the game, this accuracy should be sufficient):

GK:
40 strikes, talent 20 Explosive power 70
passes 45 defensive positions 40 bounce 45
kick-off 35 work commitment 10 flexibility 100
reaction 80 concentration 65 endurance 10
interception passes 40 decision 50 balance 20
boxing 0 leadership 10 strong 70
hand control 50 aggression 40 Speed 50
Throwing the ball 30 Field of view 40 Physique 10Stopping 30 Teamwork 20 Unused feet 10
One-on-one 45 Running without the ball 0     
Unexpectedness 20 Willpower 20     
Command and Defense 30 Brave 30             
Air Dominance 60 Pre-judgment 40 Composure 40     

Central Defender:
Passing 55 Talent 10 Explosive Power 90
Crossing 1 Defensive Position 55 Bounce 65
Marking 55 Work Involvement 55 Flexible 60
Penalty Kick 10 Concentration 50 Endurance 30
Technique 35 Decision 50 Balance 35
Corner Kick 5 Leadership 10 Strength 50
Out-of-bounds 5 Aggression 40 Speed 90
Dribbling 40 Vision 50 Physique 10
Steals 40 Teamwork 20 Unused feet 25
Free kicks 10 Moves without the ball 10             
Shots 10 Willpower 20             
Stops 35 Brave 30             
Headers 55 Pre-judgment 50             
Long shots 10 Calm 80             

Full back:
Passing 45 Talent 20 Explosive power 100
passing 25 Defensive Positioning 30 Jumping 40
Marking 45 Work Engagement 90 Flexible 60
Penalty Kick 10 Concentration 45 Endurance 100
Technique 45 Decision 45 Balance 25
Corner Kick 30 Leadership 10 Strong 25
Out-of-bounds 30 aggressiveness 45 speed 90
dribbling 50 vision 25 physique 10
steals 50 teamwork 45 unaccustomed feet 20
free kicks 10 off the ball 70             
shots 10 willpower 20             
stops 30 brave 20             
headers 20 predictions 45             
long shots 10 Calm 30             

defensive midfielder:
Passing 65 Talent 50 Explosive power 65
Passing 10 Defensive position 65 Jumping 15
Marking 20 Work engagement 90 Flexible 45
Penalties 10 Concentration 50 Endurance 70
Technique 50 Decision 65 Balance 35
Corner Kick 10 Leadership 10 Strength 35 Out-of-bounds
5 Aggression 50 Speed 70
Dribbling 45 Vision 55 Constitution 10
Steals 35 Teamwork 65 Unused Feet 50
Free Kick 30 Off the Ball 40             
Shot 20 Willpower 20             
Stop 50 Brave 30             
Header 10 Anticipation 55             
Long Shot 40 Calm 60     

Wing Forward:
Passing 50 Talent 20 Explosive Power 100
Crossing 65 Defensive Position 35 Bounce 10
Marking 35 Work Involvement 75 Flexibility 50
Penalty Kick 15 Concentration 35 Endurance 75
Technique 50 Decisive 35 Balance 15
Corner Kick 30 Leadership 10 Strong 30
Out-of-bounds 30 Aggression 35 Speed 100
Dribbling 55 Vision 35 Physical 10
Steals 35 Teamwork 40 Non Get used to 20
free kicks 10 running without the ball 40             
shooting 15 willpower 20             
stopping the ball 30 brave 15             
header 10 predicting 45             
long shots 10 composure 30     

front midfielder:
Passing 50 Talent 20 Explosive Power 100
Crossing 5 Defensive Positioning 10 Bounce 10
Marking 5 Work Involvement 80 Flexible 30
Penalty Kick 15 Concentration 25 Endurance 80
Technique 65 Decision 40 Balance 50
Corner Kick 5 Leadership 10 Strong 30
Out-of-bounds 1 Aggression 50 Speed 80
Dribbling 65 Vision 30 Physique 10
Steals 15 Teamwork 35 Unaccustomed Feet 20
Free Kick 30 Off the Ball 35             
Shot 65 Willpower 20             
Stops 40 Brave 20             
Header 10 Pre-judgment 70             
Long Shots 20 Calmness 35             

Forwards:
Passing 40 Talent 25 Explosive Power 100
Crossing 5 Defensive Positioning 5 Jumping 20
Marking 1 Work Involvement 60 Flexible 30
Penalty Kick 20 Concentration 5 Endurance 65
Technique 65 Decision 45 Balance 50
Corner Kick 5 Leadership 10 Strong 25 out-of-
bounds 1 aggressiveness 50 speed 70
dribbling 75 vision 20 physique 10
steals 5 teamwork 35 unaccustomed feet 20
free kicks 5 off the ball 45             
shots 80 willpower 20             
Stopping 50 Brave 20             
Header 25 Anticipation 50             
Long Shot 25 Calm 35             

Usage Significance:
1. Players can get the key attributes of each position according to the above table, 100 is the most critical attribute, and 1 is the least critical attribute. So as to guide the selection of materials.

2. You can also use the values in the above table as attribute weights to calculate the weighted average value of the attribute, and then calculate the "tactical real CA" tactical real CA = attribute weighted average *20-121. Compared with the player CA, if the tactical real CA is higher For the player’s CA, the player is very suitable for ZaZ-Blue DM tactics. The higher the tactical real CA, the more suitable it is for player selection.

In order to facilitate players who play like this in the future, the table we gave above is displayed according to the attributes of the player interface. Arranged in order, even if you don’t write a program, you can create three rows in excel to quickly manually enter the attribute value and get the "tactical real CA"

3. The guiding significance for training, the attribute is occupied by the CA, in order to cultivate the tactical real CA For the highest player, we can cultivate the most cost-effective attribute. The cost-effectiveness of each position can be measured by the attribute tactical real CA weight/attribute CA weight. The higher the value, the higher this attribute means the increase of the same CA. Will make the player's attribute tactical real CA higher.

Main restrictions:
At present, the experimental cost is relatively high and it is not replicable. The engine version is changed and the tactics are changed. If there is no transfer learning, the AI needs to be retrained. Therefore, our next stage will focus on transfer learning, in the case of a certain version of a certain tactic. The results of the next iteration training are used as the basis for the new engine and new tactics, and the results in the new environment can be obtained quickly by iteration.
ZaZ said: Hey! It would help a lot if I could understand a single word there. Hopefully it will help others. Thanks for bringing it up, anyway!

P.S.: I would be grateful if anyone that understands chinese could translate it for us.


I have gone to the site and done my best to interpret the Chinese into English. I am thinking we should have a go at doing a Genie Scout filter based on their results. First I will provide a summary of their results of attribute importance by position for ZaZ Blue. Then I will open a separate post with the converted text. There are quite few things that don't seem to convert easily. But here goes:

OK so I always start with lower league sides, but you could certainly go worse than using this approach with professional sides.

Set up and the start of each Season

Check out the season odds for the team and Board expectations. This is your base target for the season.

Review the squad and release players that are not up to scratch. Try and buy young promising players who rate well and are off contract or are non-contract players. In the lower leagues, focus on speed and size when buying or keeping players.

Take a similar approach with staff but make sure you have reasonable cover. Most clubs will let you negotiate a contract for new staff and then sack the existing if the new one accepts. Try and get all the coaching up to 3 stars. This may not be possible if your Board won’t allow many staff.

Set up 3 tactics, one as the main tactic and then an aggressive one to try and get goals when you need them and a defensive one to protect goals. Ideally you need to be able to easily move between these with the selected players on the pitch, see the Tactics section below.

Set up the training – see the training section below.

Try and improve the youth recruitment and facilities every 6 months or so. It will help you in a long term save.

If you don’t have them, try and set up a parent club and an affiliate so you can easily loan players out and in.

Arrange all your friendly games at home, and mostly on Saturdays if you are not a professional side. This is easier on the players with less travel. Focus the friendlies on larger clubs to try and make money.

Training

The focus for training should be attribute improvement, tactic familiarization, position and role familiarization, managing player morale, squad cohesion and fatigue.

A good starting point for a training schedule is the ZaZ Blue ones, see the FM Arena site and go to the ZaZ Blue tactic. In the opening post there are training schedules that you can download. It is worth swapping some of the attacking and defending training slots to the ones below. It is also worthwhile slotting in a Match Review the day after a game if there is training on that day as it seems to help with players understanding what went wrong or right in the previous game and reinforce good habits.

If you are playing in lower leagues with a part time side, try and include Ground Defence or Aerial Defence and Chance Conversion or Chance Creation as these include time for individual training. I start with Chance Creation (Attack and Individual), Teamwork (Morale and Cohesion), Ground Defence (Defence and Individual) and Match Tactics (Tactic Familiarity). If you are creating chances a lot but not scoring swap the attacking training to Chance Conversion and if the opposition are scoring the majority of their goals from headers change the defensive training to Aerial Defence.

Set all players individual training to the position and role you want them to play. Set the individual focus to one that covers an attribute that has low CA cost and is a key attribute for the player’s position. Here is the first choice for each position:

GK Decisions – GK Tactical
DRL Stamina – Endurance
DC Decisions or Positioning – Defensive Positioning
WBRL Stamina – Endurance
DM Agility or Decisions or Marking – Agility and Balance
MRL Agility– Agility and Balance
MC Decisions or Stamina – Final Third
AMRL Stamina– Endurance
AMC Stamina or Agility – Endurance
Fast Striker Finishing – Shooting
Target Striker Jumping Reach or Finishing – Shooting

This is for all players.

The best way to stop injuries and fatigue in FM is to rotate the squad. Ideally you should have at least 2 reasonable players for each position in the tactics you are using, don’t play anyone who is listed as Fatigued or Heavy in terms of workload.

The second and critical thing is after each day in the game, go to the Training tab, and then the Rest tab. Select all your players and right click and select Training Intensity - Automatic. Then press the button at the bottom right, Set Training Intensity to Physio Recommendation. This will lessen the load on players who are fatigued.

Mentoring

If you have good leaders/influential players with good personalities and some young promising players in the same social group as the leaders it would be worth setting up mentoring groups. Young players can develop quicker under mentoring arrangements especially if they are getting decent game time in the main squad.

You just need to ensure the things above align, leader, good personality, same social group and young player with plenty of upside or potential.

Morale

You need to be praising your players when they do well in training or in matches and berating when they are failing and you need to be using the right touchline and team talk instructions to inspire your team. Training ratings or match day performance 8+ - individual praise. Training or match day lower than 6.2 warn player.

Talks

Pre match
Generally use the Assistant Manager advice for the team talk or what you feel will work. If you don’t have the response you were after from any group of players try telling the defenders/mids/attackers that you have faith in their ability. You can tell all or just the ones that need it.

Touchline Shouts
Encourage when side is doing well but not winning
Demand more if down a goal
Praise when you score
At half time
Demand more if drawing or down by a goal
If down by more than one goal Berate

Full time
Praise for a win
Berate for a loss

General
In all of the above circumstances, be a bit more lenient if you are underdogs.

Selection

Pick players on form but allow them an off game. Start the season based on ratings and try and rotate the squad to allow your back up players to perform, ideally in cup games or arrange friendlies for them. Using the training above should work to keep players fit and not overwork them. If players are lacking fitness give them a run in lower squads to keep their match fitness up or arrange friendlies.

Tactics

If the tactics aren’t working try one of your other tactics. Don’t swap them too often through a game especially in lower leagues as the players won’t cope and will get confused. I try to keep my three tactics so there isn’t much change eg one position moves 4-1-3-0-2 to 4-1-2-0-3 or 4-1-3-1-1. Swapping to a different tactic for cup games often works because they haven’t seen you play before and will be prepared for your standard tactic.

I generally set up 5 team selection sides under Manage in Tactics Selection. The Best XI, the Second XI, the fastest XI from the top 22 players, and a Team A and Team B which are a split between the two top teams.

Ideally you should try and play the Best XI or Fastest in the league games. And then play the Second XI in Cup games and where there are 2 games per week. If the Second XI isn’t keeping fitness then arrange friendlies to keep them up to match fitness.

Monitor tactics throughout the season and within games. If you usually lead the stats and win games, and are behind on stats change tactics. If you are performing as per normal but just can’t get the goal to put you in front don’t panic.

When you cop a yellow card tell that player to ease off on tackle. If you swap tactics you will need to do this again as it doesn’t carry across tactics. If you don’t get players to ease off you run the risk of getting a further yellow and going down a player.

To protect a lead you can ease off tackles for all players set the goal keeper to slow the pace down, reduce tempo and pressing intensity by one slot. This will also reduce the impact on the players if you are running high intensity tactics.

Coaching

Get the best coaches you can afford and try and get your coaching stars up to at least 2 stars for every coaching area and 3 if you can. At the end of every year try and increase your staffing numbers until you can get to at least 4.5 stars in each coaching area.

Regular review

Monthly
Check training for the next month to ensure you are using the training schedule you want.
Praise and berate players based on their form for the last 5 games.
Recheck FM Genie for ratings and how the team sits for Best XI etc.
Review player happiness.
Reset Player expectations.
Check promises.

Weekly
Adjust training for Physio recommendations.
Set squad for next game.
Analyze next team and look at out of position players and weaknesses.
Select best tactics and players for next game.

General

Good luck and best of all enjoy.
From my testing I think it will be somewhere between 4.7 and 5.0. Might go slightly higher as I haven't finished yet but I cant see it getting to Zaz Blue standard
dstorey747 said: can someone test for me it worked well on fm 21

You will need to provide more information before they will test it here like screenshots of the tactic, results, table.

Read the content at this link

Testing Requirements
Ok. So I used @cptdoggo League of Nations test league. I ran 6 test runs to figure out the strongest teams in the test league and an order of rated teams.

I then took the 8 best tactics from FM Arena, and applied them in reverse order to try and give the league a bit of balance. Unfortunately Germany was unplayable and was the original strongest team. I accidently picked the 9th team of the 10 as the test spot.

Assignment



Next I ran 6 more tests with the assigned tactics to see what it looked like. As expected the top 8 tactics totally dominated with Germany finishing a long way behind in 9th and the test tactic spot of Argentina tailing way behind.



I then tested Mad Dogs V2 as Argentina in the League of Nations Top Tactics test league. It did relatively well but well behind most of the top tactics, only beating Mongoose and finishing 8th with 558 points. In FM Arena rated Mad Dogs V2 4.5, well below the minimum of 5.2 for the top 8 tactics.



Finally I have tested Shaolin 433. It did a little better than Mad Dogs V2 but I still wouldn't rate it higher than some of the top current FM Arena tactics. It finished 7th with 588 points in front of Mongoose and ZaZ Blue DM Tweak.



Interestingly @ZaZ Blue DM and Positive Tiki Taka are killing it in this top tactic league despite having below average teams.

Bottom line is that I am not convinced that the Shaolin 433 tactic is as good as some of the tactics at the top of the table on this site.
ZaZ said: I screwed up somewhere and when I openned my save this morning it was still in match 28 (closed the game without saving). That means I had to replay those lost matches and results have changed. I am not gonna lie, the season might become easier since I won those matches (previously a victory and a draw). There is nothing I can do about that other than apologize and go on with the run. I hope I win the league with a good margin so this doesn't make much of a difference in the end.


This is why I save every couple of days at least in game time so I don't have to replay games. Some perceive it as cheating but I still would rather have the original of what I went through than be replaying games. I still follow with interest you story with this save and have confidence it will take you a long way.

Sometimes these things happens. I have had a few crashes in my time that mostly went the other way. I think the best way to deal with it is, that the stuff you lost was just you dreaming and then you went to the reality and that is what stays.
OK, at the risk of being called for plagiarism, I am posting this. I am unsure on where we landed on such matters. I would be happy to change it if anyone thinks I should. I looked at the mad dogs 41221 V1 posted by @gaohaoqing and it tested pretty well. To be honest I liked the shape but felt the symmetry wasn't quite there. @gaohaoqing says the author is nichudi, who I assume is not on the FM Arena site.

Let me know your thoughts.

I tested the original tactic but moved the DL up to WBL to give it something that looked more aesthetic to me. it tested pretty good. I then added the set piece routine from @ZaZ and wow. This has then become easily the best tactic I have tested this year.

So here is the tactic:



And here are the results in the League of Nations testing league, set up by @cptdoggo:



Just by way of comparison I haven't been able to get a ZaZ tactic to get 130+ for both sides in this league. And this one gets 140 plus for both. Really looking forward to seeing how it tests. I will now start using it in my current saves. Please give it a go and let me know how it goes for you.
gaohaoqing said: Please test。。

I am going to post an updated version of this tactic up separately but will give you all the credit. It tested really well for me but I think the changes make it really good.
gaohaoqing said: Please test。。

You will also need screenshots of results - see the link below:

Tactic Testing Requirements
OmegaLuke said: Tactic developed during twitch LIVE stream save with PSV that is beating Liverpool, Atletico Madrid and Chelsea in the third season

Here is a link that states what you need to do to get you tactics tested in FM Arena. Please read it and update your post. Thanks

Requirements to get tactics tested
venomenom said: I'm sorry if this seems as a bit of a noob question. So I downloaded genie scout, uploaded the ratings and everything. My question is, how do you find players for specific tactics, for instance yours @ZaZ

I use this view, you can then see the positional ability and positional ratings. You need positional ability above 13 out of 20 and the best positional rating you can afford.

I have added two new versions of Dragons Breathe, version 1.3 and version 4.1. They are based on different structures with the first one Dragons Breath 1.3 being quite close to the original and the second one using the structure of @ZaZ Blue DLP AM. Still quite close structure to my original.

Version 1.3


Version 4.1


Results have been very impressive, see the original post for results and download.