@ZaZ I would be happy to test. I have set up an environment that appears to be relative stable. All injury proneness and dirtiness set to 1 for all players, consistency and important matches set to 20, all injuries and bans removed prior to starting, morale and fitness etc set to 20, most contracts frozen as all players have 10 year contracts. I have only loaded the game for English Leagues but a couple of European players have come in for major teams. I have run most of the top tactics and the results are very close to proportionally to here. I have the lowest ranked side in each of the 7 English comps ie 314 matches per run, EPL thru VNS. The Training Rest has been set as per your advice, and the tests run on Holiday with must use tactics. The tests run for about 90 minutes but you get 314 match results for the run. I am just running the second Corsair one at the moment.
Please let me know if you want to be my next guinea pig.
I have taken my old Sponge Bob tactic from FM21 as the base. It was my most successful tactic in FM21. Following NTR proving that AM wingers are better than MRLs and that strikerless dont work I moved the wingers and strikers up a slot each. this moves the formation from 4-2-2W-2-0 to 4-2-0-2W-2. I didn't alter the default positional instructions for the wingers and strikers when moved forward and left what was already there for the other roles. I have not adjusted the set pieces.
I have tested the tactics 6 times with St Albans and 3 times with Everton. The results are impressive. With St Albans the worst position was 3rd with 87 points and still being promoted. The best is the picture below. These are comparable with the best tactics on the FM Arena Table that I tested in this league during Beta.
I also tested with Everton and got a 3rd place finish. I think there is room for improvement but I do think this tactic is competitive.
It still seems to be a good base rating file. I used ykykyky balanced last year for a fair while but I didn't find a big overall difference in team selections or scouting so I am back to using this for FM23.
I should have done more testing. The next test I got sacked. Oh well, worth trying a new formation. I might dust off my FM21 Sponge Bob tactic which is the same shape as the current leader and give it a try
I decided to update my Winx tactic looking at the structures that have been successful so far. Moved a defender up to DM and went with 3 DCs at the back so pretty much still 5 defend and 5 attack. I looked at the defensive player settings for DMs and DCs in tactics SIU, Roll the Dice and Westhammer, and then changed my position settings. I changed the F9 to an AF.
I used St Albans, predicted 16th. The first run scored 110 goals and conceded 85. Tweaked some of the settings and ended with version 2 doing sensationally well. The defence is still leaky but the scoring potential is sensational, 131 goals in the test season. I cant recall seeing a formation like this in FM23. There were 8 red cards and 123 yellows, so could probably have done a fair bit better if I was playing instead of holiday mode.
I still need to play with the set pieces but think it is on the right track.
Anyhow, give it a try and let me know what you think.
The screenshot of the tests results look like this:
The average score after 10,944 matches will be referred to the "true score" and "Random Number Generation" will be referred to "RNG"
Please notice, for everyone's convenience the data is translated into "a typical 38 matches season".
After analyzing the data here's what we found:
If you test a tactic for 1 season ( 1 season x 38 matches = total 38 matches ): - The highest RNG = 25.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 2 seasons ( 2 seasons x 38 matches = total 76 matches ): - The highest RNG = 23.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 4 seasons ( 4 seasons x 38 matches = total 152 matches ): - The highest RNG = 11.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 8 seasons ( 8 seasons x 38 matches = total 304 matches ): - The highest RNG = 8.4 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 12 seasons ( 12 seasons x 38 matches = total 456 matches ): - The highest RNG = 6.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 24 seasons ( 24 seasons x 38 matches = total 912 matches ): - The highest RNG = 4.3 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 48 seasons ( 48 seasons x 38 matches = 1,824 matches ): - The highest RNG = 3.2 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 84 seasons ( 84 seasons x 38 matches = 3,192 matches ): - The highest RNG = 1.9 point away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 168 seasons ( 168 seasons x 38 matches = 6,384 matches ): - The highest RNG = 1 point away from the "true score"
As you can see if you test a tactic only for 1 season ( 38 matches ) and you hit the highest RNG then your result will be about 25.8 points away from the "true score" and if you want to test with an accuracy of 1 point then you need to test a tactic 168 seasons or 6,384 matches.
Of course, you can test a tactic only 1 season ( 38 matches ) and hit "the true result" but the probability of doing so is about 3% or so.
Please not, that our testing methodology eliminates many factors that increase the RNG:
- We set the morale and conditions of all players in the testing league to 100% and "freeze" it so the morale and conditions don't change at all. That's true for the AI controlled teams and human controlled teams.
- All the teams in the league use the same starting eleven all the time. No rotation happens.
- No transfers happen. AI managers can't be sacked.
If your testing methodology doesn't eliminate the factors above then the RNG in your tests will much higher than what we got in our 10,944 matches test.
Also, if you test tactics with a very strong team such as PSG in French league where your opponents are much weaker than your team then you won't have any RNG at all because almost with any tactic you'll be getting about 110-114 pts at the end of the season but don't be fooled by such low RNG, you need to understand when your team is much stronger than your opponents then you winning matches mostly due to having much better players than your opponents and the quality of your tactic doesn't make any significant difference and when your team is much weaker than your opponents then you loosing matches mostly due to having much weaker players than your opponents and in this case your tactic also doesn't make any significant difference. So testing tactics with the strongest or the weakest team in the league isn't a good idea at all and you need something in the middle. Expand
Wow, you guys are really getting through the testing now you are up and running. Thanks a lot. The community really appreciates all you guys do.
Tejash said: @Mark Do you think this tactic will top your tests that you did recently? Expand
I did 3 tests, not the full 12 and it was sitting above 91 points, so in the mix. I wont keep testing because I want to start a real game now. DBL and TheAmazingHIndle were both testing well in that test too.
I have improved upon my tactic from last year which tested well in my Beta tests. This one is definitely better. The offset midfield seems to work and bringing in a Vol for RPM at DM seems to work.
A small movement of a handful of points and Roll the Dice moves down the list. I still think a very stable tactic and so far has the best defence. Interestingly Fire 0.2 moved fractionally in front of Fire 0.3. A mere 2.6 points between the top 10 tactics. All these are definitely worthy of playing in your game. Onto the final Group. It will probably be tomorrow before I finish it.
Tejash said: @Mark Are you sure use SIU? But isn't rollthedice at the top presently? Expand
As I said, it is safer to use the results from 552 matches instead of promising ones with just 183 matches. Given the margin of error is around 6 points, anything in the top 12 or so could end up being the best tactic. So you could look for a formation you like and try it, or one that suits your squad. I suggested SIU as it is the leader of the 552 match brigade.
You could look at Solaris results, he tests with Arsenal. These are his best:
Tejash said: Fire is definitely not working as its leaking lot of goals and losing easy home matches too..@Mark as per your last test does it mean roll the dice is the new number 1 tactic? Expand
I would wait for the full 552 matches. I am using Winx as my main (only because it is my tactic and I have tweaked it a little), Fire for attacking and Roll the Dice for defending. If I was you I would use 4231 SIU at present, until all the results are in. But by then we should stat to have real tests from FM Arena. But really just about any of the tactics in the top 10 should be ok.
They appear to - yes
Please let me know if you want to be my next guinea pig.
I have tested the tactics 6 times with St Albans and 3 times with Everton. The results are impressive. With St Albans the worst position was 3rd with 87 points and still being promoted. The best is the picture below. These are comparable with the best tactics on the FM Arena Table that I tested in this league during Beta.
I also tested with Everton and got a 3rd place finish. I think there is room for improvement but I do think this tactic is competitive.
It still seems to be a good base rating file. I used ykykyky balanced last year for a fair while but I didn't find a big overall difference in team selections or scouting so I am back to using this for FM23.
Have you tried it any "professional" league?
I'm afraid you'll get butchered with it in any top league... you should give it a go in EPL
I might give it a run with Everton later tonight. My save is up to the first competitive game so I want to get a few games in there first.
I used St Albans, predicted 16th. The first run scored 110 goals and conceded 85. Tweaked some of the settings and ended with version 2 doing sensationally well. The defence is still leaky but the scoring potential is sensational, 131 goals in the test season. I cant recall seeing a formation like this in FM23. There were 8 red cards and 123 yellows, so could probably have done a fair bit better if I was playing instead of holiday mode.
I still need to play with the set pieces but think it is on the right track.
Anyhow, give it a try and let me know what you think.
I'm sure that many of you wonder how many matches it requites testing a tactic to get an accurate result? So we've tested that and found an answer.
We tested one tactic 10,944 matches to measure the RNG on different distances.
Here's you can download the screenshots of the tests results - 10,944 Matches Test - Download
The screenshot of the tests results look like this:
The average score after 10,944 matches will be referred to the "true score" and "Random Number Generation" will be referred to "RNG"
Please notice, for everyone's convenience the data is translated into "a typical 38 matches season".
After analyzing the data here's what we found:
If you test a tactic for 1 season ( 1 season x 38 matches = total 38 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 25.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 2 seasons ( 2 seasons x 38 matches = total 76 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 23.8 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 4 seasons ( 4 seasons x 38 matches = total 152 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 11.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 8 seasons ( 8 seasons x 38 matches = total 304 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 8.4 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 12 seasons ( 12 seasons x 38 matches = total 456 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 6.6 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 24 seasons ( 24 seasons x 38 matches = total 912 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 4.3 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 48 seasons ( 48 seasons x 38 matches = 1,824 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 3.2 points away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 84 seasons ( 84 seasons x 38 matches = 3,192 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 1.9 point away from the "true score"
If you test a tactic for 168 seasons ( 168 seasons x 38 matches = 6,384 matches ):
- The highest RNG = 1 point away from the "true score"
As you can see if you test a tactic only for 1 season ( 38 matches ) and you hit the highest RNG then your result will be about 25.8 points away from the "true score" and if you want to test with an accuracy of 1 point then you need to test a tactic 168 seasons or 6,384 matches.
Of course, you can test a tactic only 1 season ( 38 matches ) and hit "the true result" but the probability of doing so is about 3% or so.
Please not, that our testing methodology eliminates many factors that increase the RNG:
- We set the morale and conditions of all players in the testing league to 100% and "freeze" it so the morale and conditions don't change at all. That's true for the AI controlled teams and human controlled teams.
- All the teams in the league use the same starting eleven all the time. No rotation happens.
- No transfers happen. AI managers can't be sacked.
If your testing methodology doesn't eliminate the factors above then the RNG in your tests will much higher than what we got in our 10,944 matches test.
Also, if you test tactics with a very strong team such as PSG in French league where your opponents are much weaker than your team then you won't have any RNG at all because almost with any tactic you'll be getting about 110-114 pts at the end of the season but don't be fooled by such low RNG, you need to understand when your team is much stronger than your opponents then you winning matches mostly due to having much better players than your opponents and the quality of your tactic doesn't make any significant difference and when your team is much weaker than your opponents then you loosing matches mostly due to having much weaker players than your opponents and in this case your tactic also doesn't make any significant difference. So testing tactics with the strongest or the weakest team in the league isn't a good idea at all and you need something in the middle.
Wow, you guys are really getting through the testing now you are up and running. Thanks a lot. The community really appreciates all you guys do.
I did 3 tests, not the full 12 and it was sitting above 91 points, so in the mix. I wont keep testing because I want to start a real game now. DBL and TheAmazingHIndle were both testing well in that test too.
Thanks
I tested with St. Albans and Liverpool.
Results below
St. Albans
Liverpool
I wont be retesting. I will rely on what comes from FM Arena. That was just a bit of fun for me waiting for the release.
Decision: Too close to call.
Click on Solaris and then on find posts. He mostly posts tactic tests. You can then look through them
A small movement of a handful of points and Roll the Dice moves down the list. I still think a very stable tactic and so far has the best defence. Interestingly Fire 0.2 moved fractionally in front of Fire 0.3. A mere 2.6 points between the top 10 tactics. All these are definitely worthy of playing in your game. Onto the final Group. It will probably be tomorrow before I finish it.
As I said, it is safer to use the results from 552 matches instead of promising ones with just 183 matches. Given the margin of error is around 6 points, anything in the top 12 or so could end up being the best tactic. So you could look for a formation you like and try it, or one that suits your squad. I suggested SIU as it is the leader of the 552 match brigade.
You could look at Solaris results, he tests with Arsenal. These are his best:
Fire 1.0 Light is Cautious mentality. Standard Fire is Positive mentality
I would wait for the full 552 matches. I am using Winx as my main (only because it is my tactic and I have tweaked it a little), Fire for attacking and Roll the Dice for defending. If I was you I would use 4231 SIU at present, until all the results are in. But by then we should stat to have real tests from FM Arena. But really just about any of the tactics in the top 10 should be ok.