I didn't do much testing on that, but it really seems to have a correlation between training set pieces and scoring from set pieces. In my most recent games, I was not scoring from set pieces at all in the first season, then I added 1x Set Pieces every month (training #78), and suddenly my players started scoring like crazy (using my set piece routine). Therefore, I will have to include it in my rotation, maybe in place of #79, or as an extra session.
Inspired by https://fm-arena.com/thread/17034-ice-cold-v1/, this tactic aims to counter Autumn, Argus, and other tactics with similar formation. I have not yet investigated how they clash against each other, but my theory is that this tactic can exploit the single BCB from Autumn in counter attacks, while providing a more solid backline to defend against the opponent's counter attacks.
Piratellava said: If someone uses this tactic (or a similar one) in an online save, is there actually a way of countering it or atleast have a slight edge? Or is mirroring the only chance you have? Expand
This is a very balanced tactic. Three defenders make it hard to infiltrate through the middle and to complete crosses. In defense, it parks the bus with a line of five. The attacking patterns happen equally through the middle and flanks, so it is hard to find the best way to play against it.
That being said, the weak point of this tactic is the fact that OCBs move high up in the field, leaving just a single defender (BCB) to cover against counter attacks. So, the natural counter will be a similar gegenpress, not necessarily a mirror.
The fact that it uses two BCBs (which stay back during attack) mean the tactic has better protection against counter attacks, and the DM contributes to that even further. The wingbacks also advance less than AWBs in Autumn, keeping a solid backline that will be hard to exploit. Other than that, the tactic works just like Autumn (or other similar tactics), so it will put pressure on that single BCB to score on counter attacks.
P.S.: If you try it against other people, then please let me know how it performed. Also, I will try to work on that concept to make a counter to Autumn, and test how they fare against each other.
@harvestgreen22, is it possible to verify if training roles (like IP/OOP training) always affect training weights, or if it only affects in sessions with attribute "individual roles" (eg. Match Practice)? I ask that because I like to train my flank players to play in the opposite side of the field, for flexibility, but I am scared that might hurt the balance of attribute gain.
Then, if it is a combination of 3 trainings, it is presumed to be a mixture of the individual effects of the 3 trainings.
I haven't tested it in this environment yet. I'll give it a try next week. I think there shouldn't be a significant difference. It should just add a little more physical attributes and reduce some technical attributes.
No problem.
I don't have any good ideas at the moment. For now, I'm measuring the scores like this: Using attributes with a win rate difference ranging from 6 to 18
For example, if the passing rate is 2.3%, then let the passing growth of this training schedule x 2.3 , and add it to the total score.
"358" total score = 2.3 x 0.68(Passing) + 0.1 x 0.6(Crossing) + 1.7 x 1.2(Marking) + ...... "358" Quality = "358" total score / "358" CA growth
Dribbling: It is one of the most important attributes. Moreover, since it becomes more difficult to increase or decrease when the winning rate is too high or too low, it is actually more significant. Therefore, I added an additional reward coefficient to it. The original measurement was 17.4%. Finally, 17.4% x 1.25 = 21.8%
Acceleration ，Jumping reach , Pace , on the same treatment, x1.25
Some attributes, such as "Natural Fitness", I haven't assigned any scores to, because I don't know how to measure its indirect effects. Expand
Thank you for testing. My goal is to get a schedule like 150, which improves good attributes, and offset the CA gain with some more efficient routine. I used 79, but it could also work well with 45, 77, 82, 85, 86, or 282. I picked 79 because of Natural Fitness and Stamina, but it could have been any other of those. I will test other variations like 150 + 79 + 85, to see if it tilts even more to what I want.
SonikoZe said: hey wich focus are you using ? allways quickness ? Expand
Always quickness, but GK goes for Agility or Reflexes, depending on their stats. Keep in mind the author of this thread has much more authority to talk about training than me, so I advise to take their word instead of mine for anything related to training.
juliius said: Do you notice anything different when you try mixing them up? Of course testing would be nice, but have you noticed anything when using it? Expand
I actually tested with half season each only, and results were very good. However, I don't have the tools or time to test in the same level as they do here, so I don't consider those tests very reliable, but more of a personal feeling. I assume doing one week each would be the same, but I couldn't test yet. I use that way in my save, but I didn't pay much attention to results to say anything.
debelizec19 said: @ZaZ oh, you did't understand me well I know how to set up but what training do you use for u18 and u21. do you use rebalance or growth or something else? Expand
I do rebalance on youth setup, to maximize pace and acceleration, but I also bring up any super kid to train in the upper team. I do that because I often give them some play time to help growth even further, and seeing them in main squad helps me remember they exist.
I am currently mixing two training schedules, one for reallocating attributes to pace and acceleration, and another to grow CA. Basically, 1x Endurance, and 6x Attacking. I want to know if there is any difference between using each of those for half of the season, or alternating them every week. Is it possible to test, please?
If the combination of schedules work like an average, it would probably open space for optimizing training even further.
debelizec19 said: @ZaZ Congratulations on excellent tactics!! Just one question, how do you set up training for u21 and u18? do you use same training as mention in post. Thank you! Expand
Thank you!
About training, you need to first get control of youth training in staff responsibilities. Then, in your Squad screen you will see the training box, with some circles on top. Just click there, then click in the box again to set up the training.
Just testing balanced crosses, so players can cross any way they want.
Player Instructions All: Tackle Harder OCB: Shoot Less Often and Take More Risks AWB: Sit Narrower, Cross From Byline and Shoot Less Often IF: Stay Wider
Opponent Instructions: None, and only recommend people to do so if they know what they are doing.
Light version when you have a comfortable lead: Ease Off Tackle for all players, Stay On Feet, reduce one step in Trigger Press and Tempo, set mentality to Balanced, and change IFs to IWs. The goal of this version is to avoid injuries and cards, at the cost of performance.
Set pieces and training are in the attachments. Training uses two schedules, one for rebalance (Endurance x1) and one for growth (Attack x6, or 2x in three different days), and they are divided equally (half a season each, or alternate one every week or month). Make sure to leave three rest sessions after every match, double intensity when full energy, and no pitch or gym training when below full condition. I also set everyone for Quickness focus, and train them in any role of their position with focus on pace and acceleration (highlighted attributes). Pictures for people on consoles are below. Training and Set Pieces
Credits to everyone in FM-Arena who did small experiments which gave hints to what might be working well in this patch. Probably there will be a better tactic inspired by this one in the next hours or days, so I am just happy to contribute.
I took some instructions from the top tactic into Autumn, and will test if Step Up More is actually helping or not. Results in my experiments were not great, but I like how goals scored are evenly distributed through a high number of players.
It is funny how some things that got exhaustively tested in the same patch suddenly create synergy together and become meta. I took some instructions from the top tactic into Autumn, and will test if Step Up More is actually helping or not. Previously, with IFs staying narrower, it harmed the performance, but maybe with wingers wide it help them reach the byline and cross the ball. Anyway, this is the version without Step Up More, to be compared to the version with it.
Thanks!
treiblebe said: Might not be the post for it, but why Endurance training instead of quickness?
Based on results found by other people.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/13508-training-is-fake-it-just-assigns-attributes-not-grows-attributes-results-based-on-a-large-number-of-tests/
This is a very balanced tactic. Three defenders make it hard to infiltrate through the middle and to complete crosses. In defense, it parks the bus with a line of five. The attacking patterns happen equally through the middle and flanks, so it is hard to find the best way to play against it.
That being said, the weak point of this tactic is the fact that OCBs move high up in the field, leaving just a single defender (BCB) to cover against counter attacks. So, the natural counter will be a similar gegenpress, not necessarily a mirror.
I might be completely wrong, but I believe this tactic might do well against Autumn: https://fm-arena.com/thread/17034-ice-cold-v1/
The fact that it uses two BCBs (which stay back during attack) mean the tactic has better protection against counter attacks, and the DM contributes to that even further. The wingbacks also advance less than AWBs in Autumn, keeping a solid backline that will be hard to exploit. Other than that, the tactic works just like Autumn (or other similar tactics), so it will put pressure on that single BCB to score on counter attacks.
P.S.: If you try it against other people, then please let me know how it performed. Also, I will try to work on that concept to make a counter to Autumn, and test how they fare against each other.
rotate with [Endurance] And [Attacking]x6.xlsx
https://pixeldrain.com/u/1QV8Ph2a
or
https://mega.nz/file/YZMSDQzB#VU2H8rBQkSLo04xNRmdN4oZnE5WyH1GJhbnLMoZoLcM
The effect is indeed a mixture of the two , like :
Endurance , Marking +0.17
Attacking x6 , Marking +2.45
rotate with Endurance and Attacking x6 , Marking +1.2 ( ≈{(2.45+0.17)/2} , )
Then, if it is a combination of 3 trainings, it is presumed to be a mixture of the individual effects of the 3 trainings.
I haven't tested it in this environment yet. I'll give it a try next week. I think there shouldn't be a significant difference. It should just add a little more physical attributes and reduce some technical attributes.
No problem.
I don't have any good ideas at the moment. For now, I'm measuring the scores like this:
Using attributes with a win rate difference ranging from 6 to 18
For example, if the passing rate is 2.3%, then let the passing growth of this training schedule x 2.3 , and add it to the total score.
"358" total score = 2.3 x 0.68(Passing) + 0.1 x 0.6(Crossing) + 1.7 x 1.2(Marking) + ......
"358" Quality = "358" total score / "358" CA growth
Dribbling:
It is one of the most important attributes. Moreover, since it becomes more difficult to increase or decrease when the winning rate is too high or too low, it is actually more significant. Therefore, I added an additional reward coefficient to it. The original measurement was 17.4%. Finally, 17.4% x 1.25 = 21.8%
Acceleration ，Jumping reach , Pace , on the same treatment, x1.25
Some attributes, such as "Natural Fitness", I haven't assigned any scores to, because I don't know how to measure its indirect effects.
Thank you for testing. My goal is to get a schedule like 150, which improves good attributes, and offset the CA gain with some more efficient routine. I used 79, but it could also work well with 45, 77, 82, 85, 86, or 282. I picked 79 because of Natural Fitness and Stamina, but it could have been any other of those. I will test other variations like 150 + 79 + 85, to see if it tilts even more to what I want.
Its possible to give a example with wed-sat calendar?
As long as you use each for half the season, it is fine. You can use one month each, or alternate every week. You can see an example below.
Always quickness, but GK goes for Agility or Reflexes, depending on their stats. Keep in mind the author of this thread has much more authority to talk about training than me, so I advise to take their word instead of mine for anything related to training.
I actually tested with half season each only, and results were very good. However, I don't have the tools or time to test in the same level as they do here, so I don't consider those tests very reliable, but more of a personal feeling. I assume doing one week each would be the same, but I couldn't test yet. I use that way in my save, but I didn't pay much attention to results to say anything.
No, it is the same.
I do rebalance on youth setup, to maximize pace and acceleration, but I also bring up any super kid to train in the upper team. I do that because I often give them some play time to help growth even further, and seeing them in main squad helps me remember they exist.
If the combination of schedules work like an average, it would probably open space for optimizing training even further.
Just one question, how do you set up training for u21 and u18? do you use same training as mention in post.
Thank you!
Thank you!
About training, you need to first get control of youth training in staff responsibilities. Then, in your Squad screen you will see the training box, with some circles on top. Just click there, then click in the box again to set up the training.
Player Instructions
All: Tackle Harder
OCB: Shoot Less Often and Take More Risks
AWB: Sit Narrower, Cross From Byline and Shoot Less Often
IF: Stay Wider
Opponent Instructions: None, and only recommend people to do so if they know what they are doing.
Light version when you have a comfortable lead: Ease Off Tackle for all players, Stay On Feet, reduce one step in Trigger Press and Tempo, set mentality to Balanced, and change IFs to IWs. The goal of this version is to avoid injuries and cards, at the cost of performance.
Set pieces and training are in the attachments. Training uses two schedules, one for rebalance (Endurance x1) and one for growth (Attack x6, or 2x in three different days), and they are divided equally (half a season each, or alternate one every week or month). Make sure to leave three rest sessions after every match, double intensity when full energy, and no pitch or gym training when below full condition. I also set everyone for Quickness focus, and train them in any role of their position with focus on pace and acceleration (highlighted attributes). Pictures for people on consoles are below.
Training and Set Pieces
Credits to everyone in FM-Arena who did small experiments which gave hints to what might be working well in this patch. Probably there will be a better tactic inspired by this one in the next hours or days, so I am just happy to contribute.