bula1899 said: @ZaZ what do you think, which position is the most important/key positions for tactic? i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play? Expand
It depends on your squad. If you have enough good players in one position, put him in the other. If both positions are well supplied, then switch the worst player off. If you don't have any good player in either position, then play him as ML, because it's easier to find a good AMC than a good ML.
pauloolivieri said: That was the tactic I was trying to achieve. I was tired of the unbalanced 4-3-3 options with players occupying the same space, specially in the wings. And even more tired of lone strikers being useless and lost amongst the opposition defenders (they only work properly for me if there's an AMC behind).
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
Will come back for updates. Expand
Nice job there! I would just recommend Blue 3.0 with cautious mentality instead of Light Blue 3.0. Light version sacrifices win-rate to get less yellow cards and save some energy, it's supposed to be used when you want to hit the brakes thinking about future matches.
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips? Expand
I can't say much about why you are not able to challenge the european title, as it can be several reasons. Is your team fast, like everyone with pace and acceleration at least 14+?
About the wingers, it's like real life. Most of the times they don't manage to do anything. We just got spoiled to live in an era with Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Neymar and so many amazing forwards, but other than those very skilled players, most attacks usually get neutralized. With Blue you will get 20 or 30 good attacking opportunities in a match, but in real life, it's very common to end matches with less than 10.
Machismo said: BLUE's default is set to POSITIVE where as RED is set to ATTACKING. I recall for BLUE you were sure POSITIVE was the most effective overall. So for RED (in this particular case BURNLEY) leave the default as ATTACKING or change to POSITIVE mentality? Expand
Red takes less risks than Blue, so the attacking mentality is used to balance it and keep the offensive power. The mentality should fit the tactic, there isn't a best mentality overall. Void, for example, works better on very attacking than positive.
yaozy said: Could you possibly test the exact same tactic but instead of SS, use normal strikers? Would be interesting to see how it performs in a more conventional 442, I don't really enjoy putting my strikers in the SS postion. Expand
You can change SS to AF in any tactic. It will decrease the performance in 0.4 to 0.8 points, but probably still over 6.0.
Right now, I guess I'm done testing tactics for FM21. Next version comes in two or three months.
wixta79 said: what sort of player is better in the SS role? ive tried converted strikers, or is it better to use AMC's? Expand
As long as the player is at least accomplished in the position, use the fastest you have. If you want to retrain someone, the best in my opinion are MC, because they have lower weights to speed attributes which allow them to get higher attributes overall. DM are also good for this purpose. However, that only makes a difference when they reach maximum potential, so don't worry much about it.
Mark said: From memory the match engine was 21.7 but the game version is 21.4. Could be wrong. Either way this is still good under the current game which wont change now until the FM22 game Expand
Just checked and you are right! I didn't think about it since it only changes with the patches, so people usually talk about patch number instead of match engine number.
Green is a variation of Blue using two RPMs in the central midfield. The idea is that the IWB will advance to DM position in possesion, leaving only two defenders in the back and creating superiority in numbers. Since I use two RPMs with Move Into Channels, I expect one to move forward while the other holds position to cover. It's basically the opposite of Black, where the IWBs moved in front of the RPMs. Tactic and results are below.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
Black is a variation of Blue using two DMs. Since one CM was pulled down, I push both IWB forward so they can ocupy the center of the field when in possession. this formation was not tested yet, so I decided to see how it performs here. Tactic and results are below.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
dakiri said: Yes, this tactic is probably my favorite of the top options on the table right now. I've played quite a bit with Zaz Blue, Void, and my own Cyclops tactics, and dabbled with some of the others like Phoenix. Anything in the high 6s or 7s is going to be really successful, and it's hard with the eye test alone to see what's best. But 1 thing that most of the top tactics have in common is that the goals "mostly" come from players in the middle of the pitch, and wide players are mostly there for supporting play.
Afterlife plays very differently, with the two WMs contributing nearly as many goals as the Shadow Strikers up top. It just feels really different and varied when compared to other top choices. My own complaint is the "very narrow" instruction, which sometimes leads to 6 players all crammed into a small space and a lot of blocked shots...but I think it's definitely better than the alternative here, and if the players are creative and smart enough it can lead to some really attractive quick passes/combinations. It's a really fun tactic to watch. Expand
In my opinion, the best part of this tactic is to have two DMs instead of one DM and one CM, meaning you have an easier time building a balanced squad.
ta2199 said: But does hidden attributes affect alots ? I usually buy players with 12+ consistent. Love to see fm-arena test those attributes Expand
If I remember correctly, consistency is a very straight forward attribute. If you have 12 consistency, your player uses maximum attribute in 12 of 25 matches, while if you have 20, it uses in 20 of 25. I don't know how much is reduced, but I heard that's how it works.
I just want to point out that the dude created some monsters with maximum height and weight, as well as maximum speed. Imagine if Messi was 2.12m tall and strong like Cristiano Ronaldo, but with the same ability to dribble and move around. =)
It would be nice if they could test the impact of Height and maybe Weight to add to the table.
wixta79 said: great tactic, using the training schedule, i keep getting players moan about no attacking technical, any fix? Expand
My fix is to ignore it. I don't think players complaints about training have any impact in the game, it's just a mechanic to add unhapiness and make it harder to manage the squad. However, other factors of happiness are enough to make players delighted, which allow you to simply ignore those complaints.
I have read the whole thread and would like to start using your tactics and training on my fm21 save. I wanted to ask you, how do you set the workload in the rest screen in the workouts section? Expand
I usually only touch the last part, for players with excellent condition. Double during pre-season, normal during in-season. I used to go double during in-season as well, but the injuries, fatigue and condition impact usually made me regret it.
RDFTactics said: Tested your tactic and it did NOT disappoint! Well done on a great tactic
Expand
Thank you for testing. Despite what some people say, you do a good contribution to the game community. It matters very little if you do it for the views or for love for FM, what matters is that you do something that helps others and not everyone is willing to do.
famulor said: So all you do is promote your YT channel? Alrighty then Expand
He is a content creator, it's only obvious that he would promote it in forums of his target audience.
Maxeneize said: My best header should be attacking the near post or lurking at the near post? Expand
I usually put my best defender on DCR position, but both seem to score well.
Gaksital said: When using the Long throw-ins, I frequently found that our throw-ins intercepted by the opposing defender and immediately exposed to the risk of counterattacks.
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch? Expand
I did experiment other types of delivery, but long throw-ins just performed better. Some times it can generate counter-attacks, but more often than not you will find yourself in a good position in the middle of the field with good passing options, usually with opponents out of position, creating good attacking movements.
Machismo said: Do you guys do all the contracts yourself or use a General Manager? Expand
General manager sucks. He always pays double or triple of what players ask, as well as lots of useless promises. Even when I hire a general manager for the scouting knowledge bonus, I still don't let him do anything.
i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play?
It depends on your squad. If you have enough good players in one position, put him in the other. If both positions are well supplied, then switch the worst player off. If you don't have any good player in either position, then play him as ML, because it's easier to find a good AMC than a good ML.
What do I have to tick or untick to get my voice back?
It only counts official matches, not friendlies.
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
Will come back for updates.
Nice job there! I would just recommend Blue 3.0 with cautious mentality instead of Light Blue 3.0. Light version sacrifices win-rate to get less yellow cards and save some energy, it's supposed to be used when you want to hit the brakes thinking about future matches.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips?
I can't say much about why you are not able to challenge the european title, as it can be several reasons. Is your team fast, like everyone with pace and acceleration at least 14+?
About the wingers, it's like real life. Most of the times they don't manage to do anything. We just got spoiled to live in an era with Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Neymar and so many amazing forwards, but other than those very skilled players, most attacks usually get neutralized. With Blue you will get 20 or 30 good attacking opportunities in a match, but in real life, it's very common to end matches with less than 10.
Red takes less risks than Blue, so the attacking mentality is used to balance it and keep the offensive power. The mentality should fit the tactic, there isn't a best mentality overall. Void, for example, works better on very attacking than positive.
You can change SS to AF in any tactic. It will decrease the performance in 0.4 to 0.8 points, but probably still over 6.0.
Right now, I guess I'm done testing tactics for FM21. Next version comes in two or three months.
As long as the player is at least accomplished in the position, use the fastest you have. If you want to retrain someone, the best in my opinion are MC, because they have lower weights to speed attributes which allow them to get higher attributes overall. DM are also good for this purpose. However, that only makes a difference when they reach maximum potential, so don't worry much about it.
Just checked and you are right! I didn't think about it since it only changes with the patches, so people usually talk about patch number instead of match engine number.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
There is no such thing as 21.7, at least in the original edition. This tactic works well in 21.4, the current patch from fm.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1379-where-can-i-find-more-information-on-the-9-important-attributes/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/938-the-most-important-player-attributes-in-fm21/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1382-general-consensus-on-most-important-attributes-for-each-position/
I think they did that in one of those topics.
PSG is the new Liverpool.
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
Afterlife plays very differently, with the two WMs contributing nearly as many goals as the Shadow Strikers up top. It just feels really different and varied when compared to other top choices. My own complaint is the "very narrow" instruction, which sometimes leads to 6 players all crammed into a small space and a lot of blocked shots...but I think it's definitely better than the alternative here, and if the players are creative and smart enough it can lead to some really attractive quick passes/combinations. It's a really fun tactic to watch.
In my opinion, the best part of this tactic is to have two DMs instead of one DM and one CM, meaning you have an easier time building a balanced squad.
If I remember correctly, consistency is a very straight forward attribute. If you have 12 consistency, your player uses maximum attribute in 12 of 25 matches, while if you have 20, it uses in 20 of 25. I don't know how much is reduced, but I heard that's how it works.
It would be nice if they could test the impact of Height and maybe Weight to add to the table.
My fix is to ignore it. I don't think players complaints about training have any impact in the game, it's just a mechanic to add unhapiness and make it harder to manage the squad. However, other factors of happiness are enough to make players delighted, which allow you to simply ignore those complaints.
Sleipnirfossa said: Best tactic ever!
Thank you so much!
Manidaro7 said: Hello @ZaZ
I have read the whole thread and would like to start using your tactics and training on my fm21 save.
I wanted to ask you, how do you set the workload in the rest screen in the workouts section?
I usually only touch the last part, for players with excellent condition. Double during pre-season, normal during in-season. I used to go double during in-season as well, but the injuries, fatigue and condition impact usually made me regret it.
RDFTactics said: Tested your tactic and it did NOT disappoint! Well done on a great tactic
Thank you for testing. Despite what some people say, you do a good contribution to the game community. It matters very little if you do it for the views or for love for FM, what matters is that you do something that helps others and not everyone is willing to do.
famulor said: So all you do is promote your YT channel? Alrighty then
He is a content creator, it's only obvious that he would promote it in forums of his target audience.
Maxeneize said: My best header should be attacking the near post or lurking at the near post?
I usually put my best defender on DCR position, but both seem to score well.
Gaksital said: When using the Long throw-ins, I frequently found that our throw-ins intercepted by the opposing defender and immediately exposed to the risk of counterattacks.
In additon, I found out that tactics without throw-in set pieces were also highly rated at the table as those with it.
Is there any experiment on the Long throw-ins effect, conducted in 21.4.0 patch?
I did experiment other types of delivery, but long throw-ins just performed better. Some times it can generate counter-attacks, but more often than not you will find yourself in a good position in the middle of the field with good passing options, usually with opponents out of position, creating good attacking movements.
General manager sucks. He always pays double or triple of what players ask, as well as lots of useless promises. Even when I hire a general manager for the scouting knowledge bonus, I still don't let him do anything.
Thank you!