ta2199 said: So after 5 Edition, Will we have ZaZ-Thanos xD ? Expand
I am now trying to simplify the tactics. I will see what PI can be safely removed without impacting performance and change some roles to more conventional ones and keep any changes that don't affect the results. This will help new players adapt faster to the tactics.
Note: I've decided to rename this into Dark Red so I focus on two branches of tactics only, Blue (positive mentality) and Red (attacking mentality). Therefore, you can ignore this since it will follow in the Red topic.
Same as Red, but with direct passing. PIs to pass it shorter were also removed
Like usual, holiday tested with Manchester City and Fulham.
P.S.: Changed from low to extremely high tempo since it wasn't tested yet.
I had forgotten that this was still to be tested. I have 3 main branches of strategy: Red (high tempo, short passing, attacking), Blue (Normal tempo and passing, positive), and Green (low tempo, direct passing, attacking). I was focusing on Green since I couldn't find ways to improve Red, but now I will go back and explore Blue a bit.
Let me just say thank you for this tactic, which has saved my FM save after it fell off the rails when the match engine was updated. Solid defensively and lethal in attack, it's the best I've used with the patch and just keeps cranking out the results.
Thanks again and keep it up! Expand
You are welcome! Try Red+ and tell me what you think. It's better than this, but yet to be tested on the website.
P.S.: Nevermind. It just got tested and got worse results. It's weird because it definitely seems better in holiday tests and seeing it play.
Elpitcho said: What about wingers instead of DW? Will it compromise the balance and mentality of the tactic ?
Thanks for sharing and nice job! Could you just show the players stats ?
Thanks mate! Expand
Wingers and Defensive Wingers perform equally well. Use the one that you like the most. It's basically the difference between Red and Phoenix, which doesn't seem to be statistically significant.
About player stats, the tests were done in holiday node without hiring anyone. It works with any kind of players, but I would look for players with the profile of Roberto Firmino, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Virgil van Dijk...
Big improvement to Red with the suggestion by @healmuth. That means midfielder changed from CM to AP and defensive midfielder changed from DLP to DM.
P.S.: Did one more run to get the stats the guy asked below.
Since it was a holiday test, I asked the assistant manager to pick the best XI after the season to show where he used each player. It's basically 60% of goals from shadow strikers, 30% divided equally between wingers and advanced playmaker and 10% to the rest. Assists come from everywhere.
I've noticed that too. My Green strategy is using an AP attack instead of CM and it's scoring more goals. I am testing with DM defend, though. I am currently checking if I can tweak the pass directness and tempo, but just changing the CM for AP is what caused the best improvement.
P.S.: Just tested on Red, APDM the way you suggested is better. Thanks for the tip.
Hey ZaZ can download it here. But i think the filters need fixing to freeze verything in FMRTE. Seems like iot only freezes players for the CA140 team Expand
Where should I throw that Frozen Players directory? I don't get how to freeze the players.
Thank you for the tests! Funny that now my tactic did more goals and took less. I think the difference in results is just statistical variation, with maybe a slight advantage to Phoenix. It would be interesting to make 5 tests of each then compare the median of each team. Median is the one that ranks in the middle, or the 3rd more points of 5 runs, and it's a better measurements for this kind of thing in the field of statistics.
P.S.: To be more clear what statistical variance is, you can just check the difference in points from the same team in both tests, like Manchester City (7 points) or Liverpool (9 pts). They got such a difference using the same strategy, so a difference of only 4 points between Red and Phoenix might not be significant. However, if the median of several runs from Phoenix or Red is better than the other, then you can start to see which one is better. Another approach is to run 5 times each, then rank the runs by points. The one with the highest sum of rank has a higher probability to perform worse. If you can do the runs, I do the statistical analysis, but I understand if you don't have the time to do so.
P.S.2: Don't need to stress much about comparing those two unless you really want to find out which is better. They are too similar, that's why both got 6.9. Eventually a 7.0+ will show up. I will soon post my ZaZ - Green, a variation of Red that is showing lots of promise.
healmuth said: Good results, tactic seems to be a bit more suited for more advanced teams and the defense seems slightly worse in comparison to Phoenix Expand
Thanks for testing. I usually play with weak teams from lower divisions, so the results don't reflect what you could get from teams like Liverpool or Real Madrid. Holiday tests are also a bit deceiving, so it's nice to have other people try it or test it here.
This also gives me a hint that Red is better overall, so I can focus on trying to optimize that tactic instead.
Egraam said: You're right very attacking produces really inconsistent results, I have one more tactic coming that I have ready and also produced amazing results with Liverpool, it's with attacking mentality and should be much better. Expand
It's good that you bring new stuff to the table. If not for Doom, people would still be stuck on the ~6.3 score for using normal forwards. Thinking out of the box will suck 99% of the time, but that 1% is just the breakthrough we need to evolve.
healmuth said: This looks very promising and very good. - All players frozen - CA140 set to 140 capability, 165 set to 165 - All Match Prep set to 100 - Knaps corner instructions from Dukes 443 V4 applied Expand
Where can I get that test league? I have seem some people using it before.
The advantage of this tactic might as well be just a statistical deviation, as the difference is not very significant. They are too similar. That being said, this tactic is probably better because it puts less physical strain on your players.
I am currently investigating if the winger role or the instructions to run at defense and get stuck in are making any difference at all. If not, I suppose it's better to keep the simplest solution.
ta2199 said: Congrats. Only few points differents on the table Expand
Thank you! It wouldn't last much, though. The tactics are always improving since people get inspiration on better tactics. For example, my tactics improved because of Doom with the shadow strikers thing. Soon someone will discover a new catch and get >7.0 score.
That's ZaZ - Red, but with wingers instead of defensive wingers. Good to know it also performed well in other leagues.
P.S.: It just got tested and the results are nearly identical. I wonder how ZaZ - Blue will compare, since it apparently gives me better results, or very similar.
I am now trying to simplify the tactics. I will see what PI can be safely removed without impacting performance and change some roles to more conventional ones and keep any changes that don't affect the results. This will help new players adapt faster to the tactics.
Same as Red, but with direct passing. PIs to pass it shorter were also removed
Like usual, holiday tested with Manchester City and Fulham.
P.S.: Changed from low to extremely high tempo since it wasn't tested yet.
Let me just say thank you for this tactic, which has saved my FM save after it fell off the rails when the match engine was updated. Solid defensively and lethal in attack, it's the best I've used with the patch and just keeps cranking out the results.
Thanks again and keep it up!
You are welcome! Try Red+ and tell me what you think. It's better than this, but yet to be tested on the website.
P.S.: Nevermind. It just got tested and got worse results. It's weird because it definitely seems better in holiday tests and seeing it play.
Done, just added to the main post.
Thanks for sharing and nice job! Could you just show the players stats ?
Thanks mate!
Wingers and Defensive Wingers perform equally well. Use the one that you like the most. It's basically the difference between Red and Phoenix, which doesn't seem to be statistically significant.
About player stats, the tests were done in holiday node without hiring anyone. It works with any kind of players, but I would look for players with the profile of Roberto Firmino, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Virgil van Dijk...
P.S.: Did one more run to get the stats the guy asked below.
Since it was a holiday test, I asked the assistant manager to pick the best XI after the season to show where he used each player. It's basically 60% of goals from shadow strikers, 30% divided equally between wingers and advanced playmaker and 10% to the rest. Assists come from everywhere.
P.S.: Just tested on Red, APDM the way you suggested is better. Thanks for the tip.
Hey ZaZ can download it here. But i think the filters need fixing to freeze verything in FMRTE. Seems like iot only freezes players for the CA140 team
Where should I throw that Frozen Players directory? I don't get how to freeze the players.
P.S.: To be more clear what statistical variance is, you can just check the difference in points from the same team in both tests, like Manchester City (7 points) or Liverpool (9 pts). They got such a difference using the same strategy, so a difference of only 4 points between Red and Phoenix might not be significant. However, if the median of several runs from Phoenix or Red is better than the other, then you can start to see which one is better. Another approach is to run 5 times each, then rank the runs by points. The one with the highest sum of rank has a higher probability to perform worse. If you can do the runs, I do the statistical analysis, but I understand if you don't have the time to do so.
P.S.2: Don't need to stress much about comparing those two unless you really want to find out which is better. They are too similar, that's why both got 6.9. Eventually a 7.0+ will show up. I will soon post my ZaZ - Green, a variation of Red that is showing lots of promise.
Thanks for testing. I usually play with weak teams from lower divisions, so the results don't reflect what you could get from teams like Liverpool or Real Madrid. Holiday tests are also a bit deceiving, so it's nice to have other people try it or test it here.
This also gives me a hint that Red is better overall, so I can focus on trying to optimize that tactic instead.
It's good that you bring new stuff to the table. If not for Doom, people would still be stuck on the ~6.3 score for using normal forwards. Thinking out of the box will suck 99% of the time, but that 1% is just the breakthrough we need to evolve.
What is the most important attribute of the SS?
I have yet to see a good tactic with inverted winger in FM21. They seem to suck right now.
- All players frozen
- CA140 set to 140 capability, 165 set to 165
- All Match Prep set to 100
- Knaps corner instructions from Dukes 443 V4 applied
Where can I get that test league? I have seem some people using it before.
I am currently investigating if the winger role or the instructions to run at defense and get stuck in are making any difference at all. If not, I suppose it's better to keep the simplest solution.
Thank you! It wouldn't last much, though. The tactics are always improving since people get inspiration on better tactics. For example, my tactics improved because of Doom with the shadow strikers thing. Soon someone will discover a new catch and get >7.0 score.
P.S.: It just got tested and the results are nearly identical. I wonder how ZaZ - Blue will compare, since it apparently gives me better results, or very similar.