famulor said: Ideal conditions is a funny thing tho. It wont represent 95% of the players using the tactics so it isnt something you should lean on too much. Expand
I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things: - Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often. - Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week. - Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season. - Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building. - Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway.
As you can see, the conditions are not unatainable at all. If I remember correctly, other tests like FM-Base also do most of these things, except they have less players and different teams (one with CA 160 and one with CA 140), while FM-Arena uses two teams with the same players (to get more matches per season). FM-Base also lets assistant manager pick the team, while FM-Arena picks players manually.
Both Phoenix and Blue were tested there in previous tests, getting good results with CA 160 team, but bad results with CA 140 teams. That doesn't mean Phoenix and Blue are bad with weaker teams, since many people have successfully won everything with weak teams using these tactics, even in the first season. I won the premier league with a team of CA ~110, for example (Leamington). It probably just means the weak team is not suited to those tactics, maybe because it lacks some player for specific positions, maybe because assistant manager can't pick well, or any other reason caused by the test configuration.
If you don't have those perfect conditions, like playing with low morale, low condition, low cohesion and familiarity, more injuries (meaning using reserves more often), as well as worse players and maybe not capable players for all positions, then your tactic oscilate way more, with players doing more mistakes. This means more tests will be needed and results might vary a bit, but scores wouldn't change too much since more than half the matches should be played in nearly perfect conditions.
Like @ta2199 said, DLP works more as a transition role. If you check their stats, they usually have the most passes in the entire match, but rarelly any assists, kicks or dribbles. They don't give the final assist, but often give the pass before the assist. That's why it's important for them to have Hold Position, so they are always available to receive the ball and pass around from that central position. DLP and DM allow Hold Position, so they both work well in this system. Regista and RPM, on the other hand, have Roam From Position, working better in a like of two. The other positions, as well as DLP and DM in defend duty, are usually more defense oriented, not doing many passes to positions that can lead to those final assists.
brainbox said: So I get that pace and acceleration are the main attributes to go for when buying players. But do all players such as DM or CB need these attributes? Or just the attacking players? Expand
Any, including defenders. After those two attributes, but with less importance, come agility (for all players) and dribbling (for offensive players). For defenders and DM, with less importance than the speed attributes, come jumping reach.
Belmorn said: Due to winning prizes in the last 2 seasons my reputation has shot up massively.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead. What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ? For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above. Expand
It usually gets easier as seasons go, since you add better and better players. You can have a bad run and lose 4 or 5 games in a row, but it's usually not because of the tactic, but because of player management. For example, I usually lose more to very small teams than very big teams, because players get complacent. Just keep going and work the players fatigue, happiness, morale and complacency and you will win by the end of the season.
I usually look for agility, reflexes and jumping reach, but it's hard to say what are the most important attributes for a goalkeeper, since it's hard to test.
klokan said: hey @ZaZ , since it's your schedules and your tactic, I've mentioned you in comment, but everyone else feel free to comment
You said earlier that youth teams also need quickness schedules, but in the "In-Season" training, there are few training sessions that include bonuses for the upcoming match. In my opinion, there is no need for upcoming match bonuses in youth teams since it doesn't really matter if the youth team is 1st or 7th, at least to me My suggestion is to change those "bonus" schedules into something else, do you have any suggestions? We all want our regens to fulfill their potential, am i right? Expand
You can have different schedules for different squads. Usually I leave it to youth manager and just add individual focus to quickness.
If your focus is to maximize attribute gain, then you should probably add other sessions instead of upcoming match. I use those because I play without saving, so any extra chance to win is welcome. I am also usually satisfied with the attribute gain by the end of the season.
keadude said: Hey guys, Would it be possible for someone to screenshot the two training schedules for me? I'm using touch and you can't load schedules in there but if I have screenshots of the schedules showing what to do on each day of the week I can create them myself in the game. Thanks! Expand
Pre-Season:
In-Season, one and two matches in the week. I set the week with two matches to be very light, considering some people like to use the best eleven in most games.
TactocTestor said: Hi can you comment on my training schedule? My team cohesion is already maxed so I'm thinking about replacing them with set piece training. Expand
I like to train Attacking Movement, Teamwork and Defensive Positioning before every match, since they give bonus to the next match. Quickness training is fine if you have a squad to rotate, but that means you won't be able to use the same players wednesday and saturday, as they won't recover their condition in time. About corners and delivery, I am not saying they are not good to train, but they seem to make less of a difference than the other match bonuses (defensive positioning and teamwork), in my experience. I didn't test it so I can't say for sure. Also, the point of team bonding and match practice is not cohesion, but happiness. Happy players nag less and accept better being mistreated in other areas, like heavy training because of quickness individual focus or lower salaries.
Gpassosbh said: That´s great. Now the 3 sets are done. I´ll use Blue, Red and Silver. Thanks. Expand
Threedom, from @Egraam is probably better with three defenders. If you want to train three different tactics, I would recommend Blue 3.0 (top ranked), Void 2.0 from @Cyborg (top goals with high score) and Cooper (top defense). Or you can train Blue 3.0, as well as Blue 3.0 in very attacking and cautious mentality, which wouldn't be too far off those two.
Rollerbob said: Amazed this only got a 6.3 on the tac testing table. Could be that its only amazing for great teams? Expand
6.3 is a good score, enough to win most championships with a good team. Tests from FM-Arena are made under good conditions, so it reflects more the results of a top team than a weak team. It just happens that some tactics are better suited to these conditions.
Yet another tactic with three defenders and three strikers. This time, it uses DW as wingers and a pair of DMs playing wide, to cover the flanks, and set to get further forward. Results are pretty good, so I hope it will be better than Copper. Most other features are taken from Blue.
Let me know in the comments how it performed for you!
klokan said: one more question. is it better to play strikers in SS position or AMC's? for example, is it better to play Dembele or Vlasic in SS position? i'm struggling to make things work for vlasic and that type of players.. Expand
Train the Striker to at least accomplished in AMC, then choose the fastest of them. If the striker is not accomplished, then use the AMC while he is training, maybe swapping him in during decided matches to train him faster.
An accomplished player is 7.5% less effective than a natural player. Competent is 12.5% less effective, and unconvincing is 19% less effective. Awkward is 35% and ineffectual is 40%.
Keep in mind that 3 points less in acceleration or pace will make the player ~20% less effective, while 3 points less in both acceleration and pace will make the player ~40% less effective. That means if AMC and ST have different speed, it's usually better to choose the fastest.
TactocTestor said: Is finishing really necessary on shadow strikers? I notice in the important attributes table that finishing has the least effect on team result. So my SS won't improve much even if his finishing goes up from 11 to 14? Expand
I've had success with strikers with 3 finishing and have had some blind strikers with 18 finishing. It obviously have some importance, but getting the ball in the right spot often is way more important.
klokan said: Hey, I know someone has already asked you about the training but... could you make version of training for 1 match sunday, 1 match saturday, 2 match- tuesday saturday, 2 match tuesday sunday, 2 match wednesday saturday, 2 match wednesday sunday? or at least tell me how to alterate your trainings when different situations come up in my schedule? Expand
The in-season training is set to 1 match per week, on saturday. If your match is sunday, just swap saturday with sunday. If you have another match wednesday or tuesday, just remove the quickness trainings and make sure there is one attacking movement, defensive positioning and teamwork before each match, to give next match bonuses.
anonameone said: Thanks mate. That page the link refers to, really enlighten me. Any Player Preferred Moves recommended? Expand
Get moves that reinforce the player instructions. For example, move into channels for those that have the instruction to move into channels, and so on.
anonameone said: Sorry if this has been asked before, but which one is better for the shadow striker role? A natural AMC or natural ST trained to AMC position? Expand
kireby said: @ZaZ if you remember me I started new save with some addons and my local club Baltika Kaliningrad again. What i can say is i don't know if ME changed at all, but when i matched players i won Championship and won 6 games in UCL with club only predicted 12th or 8th, i can share my screenshots from that season if you want.
I think this is the most stable and broken tactic in FM 21. If i could won Man City and PSG twice in 2 seasons a row with Russian Club - this means something Expand
I believe you. I recently won both English, Swedish and Brazilian leagues with teams predicted last, in the first season. I have yet to continue those saves to win the continental cup too.
Just another crazy idea. It didn't do very well with Fulham, but managed to win the league with Manchester City in holiday mode. Tactic and results are below.
I would say an above average player would play in perfect conditions pretty often. Test here assumes the following things:
- Maximum morale. You can usually keep morale very high just by complimenting/warning in trainings and matches, and a good tactic will help keep morale high by winning often.
- Maximum condition. Very easy to do in weeks with only one match, but requires some resting and rotation when you play more than once a week.
- Maximum cohesion and familiarity. You should naturally reach this with time during the season.
- Injuried players are "healed" after match. Hardest part to avoid, but can be fixed with some squad building.
- Capable players for all positions. This should be the goal for any squad building, anyway.
As you can see, the conditions are not unatainable at all. If I remember correctly, other tests like FM-Base also do most of these things, except they have less players and different teams (one with CA 160 and one with CA 140), while FM-Arena uses two teams with the same players (to get more matches per season). FM-Base also lets assistant manager pick the team, while FM-Arena picks players manually.
Both Phoenix and Blue were tested there in previous tests, getting good results with CA 160 team, but bad results with CA 140 teams. That doesn't mean Phoenix and Blue are bad with weaker teams, since many people have successfully won everything with weak teams using these tactics, even in the first season. I won the premier league with a team of CA ~110, for example (Leamington). It probably just means the weak team is not suited to those tactics, maybe because it lacks some player for specific positions, maybe because assistant manager can't pick well, or any other reason caused by the test configuration.
If you don't have those perfect conditions, like playing with low morale, low condition, low cohesion and familiarity, more injuries (meaning using reserves more often), as well as worse players and maybe not capable players for all positions, then your tactic oscilate way more, with players doing more mistakes. This means more tests will be needed and results might vary a bit, but scores wouldn't change too much since more than half the matches should be played in nearly perfect conditions.
It is pretty good, just not the best in ideal conditions.
Any, including defenders. After those two attributes, but with less importance, come agility (for all players) and dribbling (for offensive players). For defenders and DM, with less importance than the speed attributes, come jumping reach.
What I notice now is that AI managers start using counter attack play , especially when they are ahead.
What is your recommended action against this ? Start more cautious or more attacking ?
For reference , my squad isn’t quite there yet in terms of CA with a mix of 120-160 players but none above.
It usually gets easier as seasons go, since you add better and better players. You can have a bad run and lose 4 or 5 games in a row, but it's usually not because of the tactic, but because of player management. For example, I usually lose more to very small teams than very big teams, because players get complacent. Just keep going and work the players fatigue, happiness, morale and complacency and you will win by the end of the season.
I usually look for agility, reflexes and jumping reach, but it's hard to say what are the most important attributes for a goalkeeper, since it's hard to test.
You said earlier that youth teams also need quickness schedules, but in the "In-Season" training, there are few training sessions that include bonuses for the upcoming match. In my opinion, there is no need for upcoming match bonuses in youth teams since it doesn't really matter if the youth team is 1st or 7th, at least to me
My suggestion is to change those "bonus" schedules into something else, do you have any suggestions?
We all want our regens to fulfill their potential, am i right?
You can have different schedules for different squads. Usually I leave it to youth manager and just add individual focus to quickness.
If your focus is to maximize attribute gain, then you should probably add other sessions instead of upcoming match. I use those because I play without saving, so any extra chance to win is welcome. I am also usually satisfied with the attribute gain by the end of the season.
Would it be possible for someone to screenshot the two training schedules for me? I'm using touch and you can't load schedules in there but if I have screenshots of the schedules showing what to do on each day of the week I can create them myself in the game.
Thanks!
Pre-Season:
In-Season, one and two matches in the week. I set the week with two matches to be very light, considering some people like to use the best eleven in most games.
TactocTestor said: Hi can you comment on my training schedule? My team cohesion is already maxed so I'm thinking about replacing them with set piece training.
I like to train Attacking Movement, Teamwork and Defensive Positioning before every match, since they give bonus to the next match. Quickness training is fine if you have a squad to rotate, but that means you won't be able to use the same players wednesday and saturday, as they won't recover their condition in time. About corners and delivery, I am not saying they are not good to train, but they seem to make less of a difference than the other match bonuses (defensive positioning and teamwork), in my experience. I didn't test it so I can't say for sure. Also, the point of team bonding and match practice is not cohesion, but happiness. Happy players nag less and accept better being mistreated in other areas, like heavy training because of quickness individual focus or lower salaries.
Threedom, from @Egraam is probably better with three defenders. If you want to train three different tactics, I would recommend Blue 3.0 (top ranked), Void 2.0 from @Cyborg (top goals with high score) and Cooper (top defense). Or you can train Blue 3.0, as well as Blue 3.0 in very attacking and cautious mentality, which wouldn't be too far off those two.
It's the highest score reached in the table of first patch.
6.3 is a good score, enough to win most championships with a good team. Tests from FM-Arena are made under good conditions, so it reflects more the results of a top team than a weak team. It just happens that some tactics are better suited to these conditions.
Let me know in the comments how it performed for you!
Train the Striker to at least accomplished in AMC, then choose the fastest of them. If the striker is not accomplished, then use the AMC while he is training, maybe swapping him in during decided matches to train him faster.
An accomplished player is 7.5% less effective than a natural player. Competent is 12.5% less effective, and unconvincing is 19% less effective. Awkward is 35% and ineffectual is 40%.
Keep in mind that 3 points less in acceleration or pace will make the player ~20% less effective, while 3 points less in both acceleration and pace will make the player ~40% less effective. That means if AMC and ST have different speed, it's usually better to choose the fastest.
Source: https://fm-arena.com/thread/1087-the-position-rating-and-its-impact-on-the-performance/
Same foot as side is better, but don't worry much about it.
I've had success with strikers with 3 finishing and have had some blind strikers with 18 finishing. It obviously have some importance, but getting the ball in the right spot often is way more important.
The in-season training is set to 1 match per week, on saturday. If your match is sunday, just swap saturday with sunday. If you have another match wednesday or tuesday, just remove the quickness trainings and make sure there is one attacking movement, defensive positioning and teamwork before each match, to give next match bonuses.
Any Player Preferred Moves recommended?
Get moves that reinforce the player instructions. For example, move into channels for those that have the instruction to move into channels, and so on.
The fastest (acceleration/pace) of them if ST is at least accomplished. If ST is not retrained to accomplished yet, then AMC will probably do better, unless he is a slug.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1087-the-position-rating-and-its-impact-on-the-performance/
I think this is the most stable and broken tactic in FM 21. If i could won Man City and PSG twice in 2 seasons a row with Russian Club - this means something
I believe you. I recently won both English, Swedish and Brazilian leagues with teams predicted last, in the first season. I have yet to continue those saves to win the continental cup too.