kyle4921 said: I've already been doing this every game. Starting to think all of my players just have the worst hidden attributes possible because I see no reason for their performance to be so consistently bad. Watching them play it just seems like they're incredibly uninterested in actually trying to get the ball up the pitch. Did you change any player instructions at all in the lower leagues or just leave as is? Expand
Well, it might be. After every season, I like to renew around 10% to 20% of my squad. At that time, I usually cut players that have good attributes, but didn't perform well for the whole season. Without seeing hidden attributes, you need to guess who has high injury proneness, low consistency, high dirtness and so on. If the player has very good attributes, you can always give him one more season, but if you find someone better to replace him, just let it go.
Anyway, it's hard to guess why teams go into bad spells. There are too many variables other than tactics that affect the game, which is nice or FM would be very boring.
Gpassosbh said: Hello @ZaZ , do you have a plan for FM22 yet? Or you think it's too early? Expand
My plan is to start with three tests: 1. Blue 3.0. 2. Blue 3.0 with AF, in case they are more effective in the next version. Would also try moving CM to SS and see which does better. 3. Blue 3.0 with three defenders, using the new role. The extra defender would move to SS/AF, and I also plan to try with the CM moved to DM.
Those would be my initial tactics. After knowing which one does better, I will start tweaking player positions, roles, instructions and set pieces. For example, I want to know if AML/R are doing good next version, so I would get the best version and move ML/R position up.
Most of those tests will be done on my own, and only the most promising would be posted here. Blue 3.0, however, will be posted right away, since I believe any top tactic is worth converting to the new version at start.
kyle4921 said: Sure. I've improved on morale issues and it's much better than previously and my physical attributes are way above average in the league but I'm still being outclassed every game. I'm really not sure what to do. Expand
Well, only thing you can do is use team talk and shouts to motivate them and see how it goes. Try this: - During pre-match team talk, tell the team there is no pressure, to relieve some of their stress. Then, tell defenders and midfielders (entire team) that you have faith on them. - If you team is not winning, use shouts to encourage them. If they are winning, praise them. - During half time team talk, if you are not winning, tell them you are not happy with their performance. If you are winning, tell them you are happy.
That's what I usually do when I play the weakest team of a championship.
kyle4921 said: Does this tactic work in lower league still? I'm playing as Slough and promoted from the South league and National league in my first seasons using a different tactic and lost play offs in my first season in League Two. I've switched to this tactic in the pre season and I'm really struggling. I'm only 3 points outside of the relegation zone after 14 games. Is there something I'm doing wrong or does the tactic not work with bad teams anymore? My striker that was top goal scorer in the league last season has scored only 4 goals in 14 games. If you could offer any advice that would be appreciated. Expand
From what I can see, your players morale is not so good. I would start talking to them individually to raise that. Compliment those that trained over 8.0 last week and warn those that trained under 6.2. Do the same for last match and form (last 5 matches).
Another obvious problem is that you have way too many players unhappy or asking to leave. I'm not sure how that happened, but that certainly has a negative impact in performance, since players like to support their friends.
Third point is that you just got promoted, so it's natural for your squad to be weaker than your opponents. To have some chance under those circumstances, you need a fast squad, above average on pace, acceleration and agility. How are those stats on your first team? Can you show the physical comparison of your team to the rest of the league?
Other than that, I can only wish the best of luck since I don't have enough information to help.
LPCrooks said: That is your argument, that there are worse tactics? According to this ranking, yes. But I'll tell you something, in FM13 there was a ranking of tactics similar to the one made by Mr Hough, and in that ranking there was a tactic created by a certain "Qetesh". It was neither in the top 10 in FMBase, nor was it in the top 20 in voting in FMKorea... but it turns out it was one of the best FM13 tactics, for me the best. The good thing about Qetesh was that he played 2 full seasons, without simulating games or going on vacation, and then he shared the tactics and the results... In short, I do not criticize the tactics, in fact, I have thanked the author for his effort and for sharing it. I have played 2 full seasons, I have shared the results and I have concluded that I am not convinced. I HAVE GIVEN MY OPINION. So much is it difficult for you to respect that? Or do I have to lie if I didn't like it? Expand
I'm just saying the same tactic, in the same season and same conditions, can lead to completely different results. You can take it any way you want, but in the end, you are just criticizing the RNG.
You can argue that you or some players tested a tactic and thought it was the best, but a statistical analysis is usually more reliable than opinions.
LPCrooks said: Thanks @Lapidus , but I've been playing Football Manager since the 2009 version. I'm not talking about any conspiracy or 2nd season syndrome. But from a consistent tactic I hope it will give me a regular performance. If I do 100 goals and 100 points in the championship first year after having made 14 transfers, I understand that in the 2nd year I will have a similar performance since the players have already been playing together for a year and they know each other more. I'm not talking about winning the league again, Madrid and Barsa can perform at their level and win the championship the following year. But it doesn't make any sense that one year he scored 100 goals, he could have scored many more because clear chances were missed, and the following year, the same team with better cohesion, barely scored 30 goals in the middle of the championship. If it does for you, it's your opinion and I have nothing more to say. My opinion from my experience is this. Expand
Check the six results from any tactic in this site, even the top ones. You will see they can go from as high as 180 points to as low as 140, which is a difference of almost 25%. And here we are talking about tests that remove lots of random variables, like injuries, fatigue and so on.
In short, RNG still plays some role in this game. If the top tier tactics are not consistent, you can expect even worse from tactics of lower score. (P.S.: Or maybe they are more consistent, but being consistently worse is not what you are looking for.)
Bonka said: Simple question. If i use some training schedules which are differ from yours, will the results be affected ? Because you know, i want to use some technical or set pieces training to coach for some young players in my team. Expand
Match preparation, team cohesion, player happiness and general fitness (including avoiding injuries and fatigue) affect the results directly. However, how much the results are affected is up to debate, since I never heard about a study of training schedules and their impact on results.
What I can say is that my training schedules are focused in maximizing the chance to win in the current season. On developing players for future seasons, speed attributes are proven to be the most important for this version of FM, so my training schedules focus mostly on improving quickness.
Does this mean my training schedule is the best? Not at all, since different players might have different goals. For example, you might want to focus on improving players for future seasons, switching match preparation for some specific training (like more quickness). You could also use heavier training schedules and rest players manually, which would potentialy get better results (if you manage to avoid fatigue and injuries).
Anyway, I don't think using a different training schedule would make that much of a difference. You might lose a small bonus to next match, but you are getting other bonuses instead, which might even out in the end.
what seasone ... i start this tactic on midle of sesaone and great resulat 1st in history i win serbian cup and finish 3 place on table ... go hard on next sesaon so good Expand
Gratz! What was your position in table before using Blue?
Nebuuuu said: Hey ZaZ@Co. I`m finally registered here, to say BIG THX for this tactic.
At the moment i`m in my 2nd season@Bundesliga with my favourite team Hertha BSC. 1st season i got awesome results with a wierd team for this formation, because irl Hertha don`t have any good winger anymore and no fast Striker (almost everyone on loan or sold).
This is the end of the 1st season:
Lost the final@penalties to Frankfurt in the german football cup.
This, the 2nd season, 10 matches before end of the Bundesliga and 12 points ahead, place one.
Also 1st time Groupstage Champions League ez won and now vs Besiktas Istanbul, which should be kinda easy.
All this in my 2nd year@Hertha BSC.
I transferred alot players the last months. Fast, young, talented players came in. A few "Oldies" as backup and alot of youngsters for 2nd team.
1st year transfers (had almost 0 wingers or fast offensive player), escpecially for the left side.
2nd year transfers.
Also a few good, fast, young player came back from Loan (Dilrosun,Maier for CM etc.) and i bought Matheus Cunha back from Athletico for only 11,5 Mio.€ (he fits perfect as SS and is 30Mio.€ now, season not even over).
BUT...i have to say ZaZ, i tried your training-setup only the first few months in the 1st season, which gave me way more injured players even when i tried to rotate hard and watch the fatigue. I let my assists lead the training and it got a little bit better. I mean...i will try your training the 3rd season again, because i have a better team now with 2-3 player for each position + better/more assists, physios.
So far, thanks alot bro and stay safe. Have a awesome CL night@all. Expand
Thank you and congratulations! I hope you can win the UCL this season.
About training, I added my training schedules more because people asked, but I didn't do any experiment with training to know what's more effective, and I don't have any more knowledge about it than other players. I just use what I think makes sense to improve cohesion, give match bonuses, train speed attributes and give happiness, which I think are the most important things about training.
When I use those schedules, I rarely get many injuries. I mean, it's common to get short injuries of two or three days, and maybe have one or two players in longer injuries, but it never caused me trouble during the season. The In-Season schedule is actually pretty light, it shouldn't cause many more injuries than training from assistant manager. Maybe you got unlucky, or maybe your team has high injury proneness.
100ka said: @ZaZ what its diferent of light and dark blue tacitic? Expand
Light is to save energy and avoid bookings, to use when you are winning the match. Dark is the same as Blue, but with Very Attacking mentality, to use when you are desperate for goals.
ta2199 said: @ZaZ I think change 1 SS to AP maybe could improve the tactic a a little bit Expand
To be honest, I can't stand asymmetry in tactics. Nothing wrong with people doing it, but my head has rejection to the concept and seeks symmetry. You can create a topic to test it if you want, but I think I'm done for FM21, since next edition comes in a couple of weeks.
Chatin said: Great tactic. Almost unbeatable. Wins Premier League, Champions League and Carabao Cup. Finalists in the FA Cup. Many games in the last month. Up to 7 games in the last 2 weeks. I signed Brandt at the winter market and sold Giroud.
Dark Blue, It has helped me at specific moments to score the goal I needed.
@ZaZ I have a question, when there are no matches in the national team matches, what training do you get? Expand
I would give one week vacation to everyone (to avoid fatigue), then Pre-Season until matches come back.
Kyle said: Ah, thank you. Would this still be the case if someone is better suited as an AP in the middle but the tactic has them set as a CM? Expand
I would rather follow the tactic role than what the assistant manager thinks or the favorite role of the player. Those things are completely worthless, because they consider some attributes that have very little impact in the game, as you can see in the table of important attributes.
Kyle said: Obviously a lot of the tactics on here are designed to get the most out of set generated players in a plug and play style, but my question is would that still be the case when you've got players with different abilities etc? For example, if someone is rated as a 4 star WB but only a 2 star IWB would you still get better results playing them as an IWB? Is it case by case? Do some positions perform better and some are fine to interchange? Expand
Assistant opinion on player's ability can be safely ignored, it has no effect in performance. They give low stars because, for FM development team, IWB should have opposite foot.
For a wingback, the preferred foot is important for shooting (which IWB-Su rarely do), crossing (they don't do either) and what direction they will pass the ball more often. Since most tactics try to balance the flow between flanks and center, it doesn't matter much.
100ka said: hello @ZaZ i try your tatcitic on my low lvl club in serbian league ... i promoted from 2nd devision and 4 sesaon i stay on midle table and now i want to try this ... so need me individaul trening for strikers ? i have af stiker now i put to trainer SS? and whan i use in-season and in-season 2 version of trainng? its be good to crate filter list for postion but this is so good for now tnx a lot and i shere my sesaon Expand
Hi! Put your strikers to train for SS. Accomplished players play almost as well as Natural, but you can really feel the difference if they are below accomplished. Some friendlies can help achieve Accomplished faster.
About the training, one is for two matches a week while the other is for one match a week.
Good job there! Make sure to keep an eye on fatigue (on medical centre) and keep the team motivated, because it's normal for them to get complacent when they are winning too much.
Probably my last tactic before FM22. It's basically Blue 3.0 with Play For Set Pieces and defenders as CD. Name is Blue Waves because I got inspiration on Waves V2 to test the changes. Below are the tactics and results from a holiday test with Manchester City and Fulham.
Well, it might be. After every season, I like to renew around 10% to 20% of my squad. At that time, I usually cut players that have good attributes, but didn't perform well for the whole season. Without seeing hidden attributes, you need to guess who has high injury proneness, low consistency, high dirtness and so on. If the player has very good attributes, you can always give him one more season, but if you find someone better to replace him, just let it go.
Anyway, it's hard to guess why teams go into bad spells. There are too many variables other than tactics that affect the game, which is nice or FM would be very boring.
Gpassosbh said: Hello @ZaZ , do you have a plan for FM22 yet? Or you think it's too early?
My plan is to start with three tests:
1. Blue 3.0.
2. Blue 3.0 with AF, in case they are more effective in the next version. Would also try moving CM to SS and see which does better.
3. Blue 3.0 with three defenders, using the new role. The extra defender would move to SS/AF, and I also plan to try with the CM moved to DM.
Those would be my initial tactics. After knowing which one does better, I will start tweaking player positions, roles, instructions and set pieces. For example, I want to know if AML/R are doing good next version, so I would get the best version and move ML/R position up.
Most of those tests will be done on my own, and only the most promising would be posted here. Blue 3.0, however, will be posted right away, since I believe any top tactic is worth converting to the new version at start.
Well, only thing you can do is use team talk and shouts to motivate them and see how it goes. Try this:
- During pre-match team talk, tell the team there is no pressure, to relieve some of their stress. Then, tell defenders and midfielders (entire team) that you have faith on them.
- If you team is not winning, use shouts to encourage them. If they are winning, praise them.
- During half time team talk, if you are not winning, tell them you are not happy with their performance. If you are winning, tell them you are happy.
That's what I usually do when I play the weakest team of a championship.
From what I can see, your players morale is not so good. I would start talking to them individually to raise that. Compliment those that trained over 8.0 last week and warn those that trained under 6.2. Do the same for last match and form (last 5 matches).
Another obvious problem is that you have way too many players unhappy or asking to leave. I'm not sure how that happened, but that certainly has a negative impact in performance, since players like to support their friends.
Third point is that you just got promoted, so it's natural for your squad to be weaker than your opponents. To have some chance under those circumstances, you need a fast squad, above average on pace, acceleration and agility. How are those stats on your first team? Can you show the physical comparison of your team to the rest of the league?
Other than that, I can only wish the best of luck since I don't have enough information to help.
I'm just saying the same tactic, in the same season and same conditions, can lead to completely different results. You can take it any way you want, but in the end, you are just criticizing the RNG.
You can argue that you or some players tested a tactic and thought it was the best, but a statistical analysis is usually more reliable than opinions.
Check the six results from any tactic in this site, even the top ones. You will see they can go from as high as 180 points to as low as 140, which is a difference of almost 25%. And here we are talking about tests that remove lots of random variables, like injuries, fatigue and so on.
In short, RNG still plays some role in this game. If the top tier tactics are not consistent, you can expect even worse from tactics of lower score. (P.S.: Or maybe they are more consistent, but being consistently worse is not what you are looking for.)
Match preparation, team cohesion, player happiness and general fitness (including avoiding injuries and fatigue) affect the results directly. However, how much the results are affected is up to debate, since I never heard about a study of training schedules and their impact on results.
What I can say is that my training schedules are focused in maximizing the chance to win in the current season. On developing players for future seasons, speed attributes are proven to be the most important for this version of FM, so my training schedules focus mostly on improving quickness.
Does this mean my training schedule is the best? Not at all, since different players might have different goals. For example, you might want to focus on improving players for future seasons, switching match preparation for some specific training (like more quickness). You could also use heavier training schedules and rest players manually, which would potentialy get better results (if you manage to avoid fatigue and injuries).
Anyway, I don't think using a different training schedule would make that much of a difference. You might lose a small bonus to next match, but you are getting other bonuses instead, which might even out in the end.
what seasone ... i start this tactic on midle of sesaone and great resulat
Gratz! What was your position in table before using Blue?
Gegenpress.
I get lots of small injuries, but it's very rare to get more than two or three players with injuries longer than two weeks.
I`m finally registered here, to say BIG THX for this tactic.
At the moment i`m in my 2nd season@Bundesliga with my favourite team Hertha BSC.
1st season i got awesome results with a wierd team for this formation, because irl Hertha don`t have any good winger anymore and no fast Striker (almost everyone on loan or sold).
This is the end of the 1st season:
Lost the final@penalties to Frankfurt in the german football cup.
This, the 2nd season, 10 matches before end of the Bundesliga and 12 points ahead, place one.
Also 1st time Groupstage Champions League ez won and now vs Besiktas Istanbul, which should be kinda easy.
All this in my 2nd year@Hertha BSC.
I transferred alot players the last months.
Fast, young, talented players came in. A few "Oldies" as backup and alot of youngsters for 2nd team.
1st year transfers (had almost 0 wingers or fast offensive player), escpecially for the left side.
2nd year transfers.
Also a few good, fast, young player came back from Loan (Dilrosun,Maier for CM etc.) and i bought Matheus Cunha back from Athletico for only 11,5 Mio.€ (he fits perfect as SS and is 30Mio.€ now, season not even over).
BUT...i have to say ZaZ, i tried your training-setup only the first few months in the 1st season, which gave me way more injured players even when i tried to rotate hard and watch the fatigue.
I let my assists lead the training and it got a little bit better.
I mean...i will try your training the 3rd season again, because i have a better team now with 2-3 player for each position + better/more assists, physios.
So far, thanks alot bro and stay safe.
Have a awesome CL night@all.
Thank you and congratulations! I hope you can win the UCL this season.
About training, I added my training schedules more because people asked, but I didn't do any experiment with training to know what's more effective, and I don't have any more knowledge about it than other players. I just use what I think makes sense to improve cohesion, give match bonuses, train speed attributes and give happiness, which I think are the most important things about training.
When I use those schedules, I rarely get many injuries. I mean, it's common to get short injuries of two or three days, and maybe have one or two players in longer injuries, but it never caused me trouble during the season. The In-Season schedule is actually pretty light, it shouldn't cause many more injuries than training from assistant manager. Maybe you got unlucky, or maybe your team has high injury proneness.
Gratz!
Light is to save energy and avoid bookings, to use when you are winning the match. Dark is the same as Blue, but with Very Attacking mentality, to use when you are desperate for goals.
ta2199 said: @ZaZ I think change 1 SS to AP maybe could improve the tactic a a little bit
To be honest, I can't stand asymmetry in tactics. Nothing wrong with people doing it, but my head has rejection to the concept and seeks symmetry. You can create a topic to test it if you want, but I think I'm done for FM21, since next edition comes in a couple of weeks.
Chatin said: Great tactic. Almost unbeatable. Wins Premier League, Champions League and Carabao Cup. Finalists in the FA Cup. Many games in the last month. Up to 7 games in the last 2 weeks. I signed Brandt at the winter market and sold Giroud.
Dark Blue, It has helped me at specific moments to score the goal I needed.
@ZaZ I have a question, when there are no matches in the national team matches, what training do you get?
I would give one week vacation to everyone (to avoid fatigue), then Pre-Season until matches come back.
I would rather follow the tactic role than what the assistant manager thinks or the favorite role of the player. Those things are completely worthless, because they consider some attributes that have very little impact in the game, as you can see in the table of important attributes.
Assistant opinion on player's ability can be safely ignored, it has no effect in performance. They give low stars because, for FM development team, IWB should have opposite foot.
For a wingback, the preferred foot is important for shooting (which IWB-Su rarely do), crossing (they don't do either) and what direction they will pass the ball more often. Since most tactics try to balance the flow between flanks and center, it doesn't matter much.
Correct.
tnx a lot and i shere my sesaon
Hi! Put your strikers to train for SS. Accomplished players play almost as well as Natural, but you can really feel the difference if they are below accomplished. Some friendlies can help achieve Accomplished faster.
About the training, one is for two matches a week while the other is for one match a week.
Good job there! Make sure to keep an eye on fatigue (on medical centre) and keep the team motivated, because it's normal for them to get complacent when they are winning too much.
More information, like set pieces, best player attributes or training schedules can be found on the link below.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/884-zaz-blue-3-0
Leave a comment if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!