I just thought about making a log of discoveries from my tests, so people avoid testing the same things. To be clear, I'll be posting what works and what doesn't work under the conditions of my testing, but results could be different under different conditions. Feel free to share your findings here too.
Roles and positions Spoiler
- TF-At > P-At, AF-At, F9-At, T-At > TF-Su, DLP-At > SS-At. - For two strikers, best combination is two TF-At. - IW-At, WM-At > IW-At (AM), RMD-At (AM), W-Su, DW-Su > W-Su (AM), W-At (AM). - DLP-Su > DM-De. - IWB-Su, WB-Su, FB-At > WB-Su (DM), IWB-At, FB-Su, WB-At, CWB-At. - BPD-De, CD-De > WCB-De > WCB-Su. - CM-At and two IW-At > three CM-At. - CM-At and two TF-At > two CM-At and one TF-At. - CM-At and DLP-Su > two DLP-Su, two RMP-Su.
- DW-Su + AF-At > DW-Su + TF-At
Team Instructions Spoiler
- Very high tempo > neutral tempo. - Press much more often > neutral pressing. - Much higher line of engagement > neutral line of engagement. - Standard passing > more direct passing, shorter passing. - Very attacking mentality > positive, attacking, cautious, balanced. - Standard width > narrow, wide. - Standard defensive line > much higher defensive line, much lower defensive line. - Blank > overlap flanks, underlap flanks. - Blank > force opposition outside, force opposition inside. - Blank > pass into space. - Blank > slow pace down.
Player Instructions Spoiler
- Take more risks > not take more risks. - Cross less often > cross more often, blank.
IMPORTANT NOTE: These results are valid for the setup I'm testing. It is possibly valid for other different setups, but some combinations can create synergy and work better than each element individually. For example, WCB-Su didn't perform well for me, but it might perform well in combination with Cautious mentality and three DMs (I didn't test that, it's just an example). Since time is limited, it's not possible to test all different combinations.
Gpassosbh said: Hello @ZaZ have you tested already your tactic in FM22 Beta? I'm thinking in you ZAZ Blue 3.0 as a base, but use 3 DC's to see the new player position. Expand
Waiting for money to ping in bank account to get it. Should happen the next couple days.
Alexis said: Thank you very much for your quick reply!! So I'm guessing the same goes for team instructions? For example, if you did not turn on 'play for set pieces' in your tactic, but my assistant tells me my squad has very good set piece takers, I still should not turn on 'play for set pieces', and just trust your tactic 100%? Expand
Just leave the instructions as they are, because changing them will reduce your team performance. This tactic will give you lots of opportunities for set pieces even without play for set pieces, so a good set piece taker will allow you to score lots of goals that way, anyway.
This is "fatigue". I didn't add players that I didn't put in my starting 11.
This is "team report" Expand
I think your players are good enough to do well. Team dynamics also seem to be fine. The only place to improve there would be training load, which can be made lighter by changing coach assignments. Basically, set your worst coach to train all categories, so he lessens the burden for everyone. You might need to hire an extra coach for that (if I remember well, you can also use a sub-23 or reserve assistant manager for that).
Anyway, I don't think any of that is the problem, so it probably has to do either with hidden attributes (inconsistency, lack of professionalism or something like that), or maybe you need to do better at team talk and shouts. Is your team doing well or bad in the table?
I couldn't start the new season as I had hoped this morning with Tactic.
my players; neither good nor bad. But we have the potential to be champions in our own league.
I buy 2 Pressing Forwards. But when I put it in Shadow Striker, I couldn't get any efficiency, they don't even press... Despite their good finishing, they hit the opposite positions all the way to the crown, ahaha...
I took Nicolas Dominguez as the Defensive Playmaker. I discovered this football player on FM20. Reminds me of Toni Kroos. But I still didn't get any results.
Center Midfielder - Attacking role; I loaned mcAtee from Manchester City. But unfortunately I couldn't get any results from it.
Also, all the players in the team are officially incapable of pressing. They don't even bother!
By the way, we are very bad in defense; A lot of oppositing player are getting out behind the defense.
As training; I use the training methods you gave me. As for Individual Player training, I use the methods you gave me.
Where am I doing wrong?
More precisely, what do I need to send you a screenshot of so that you can interpret and analyze it correctly? Expand
Show your squad page with the following columns added: pace, acceleration, agility, dribbling and jumping reach. You can add new columns by right clicking in the top bar, in the name of any column.
Also, show team report -> analyst report -> comparison -> physical. Make sure each player is at least accomplished in the position they are playing, team morale is not so bad and players have good tactical affinity (it should be fine if they are set to train for the role they play).
That will cover the quality of your players.
Next, click medical centre and show me a screenshot after you sort the list by fatigue (just left click fatigue column name to sort it, from higher fatigue to lower). This will allow me to see if you are rotating well, as well as training load and injuries.
Finally, show me a screenshot of dynamics page, to see if the atmosphere is going well.
You might very well identify problems by yourself when you look at those pages, but I will also try to give you some input on how to solve any issues there.
Alexis said: Hi, I have some questions. Is it really important to keep this formation for the tactic to work, or can I put the same team instructions on a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, for example, if I prefer those formations? Will the tactic lose a lot of its effectiveness, or will it still be successful?
Same with player roles and instructions. For example, if I put a good, but not great player who is natural in the SS-At role, will he be better than a great player who is only accomplished or competent in that role?
And if, in the player instructions, you tell a player for example to "run with ball often", but my player is bad at running with ball (10 or less), is it important to keep the instruction that you added, or should I take it off for that player? (in other words, what is more important for the effectiveness of the tactic, the capability of the player for that instruction, or the instruction itself?)
I hope I was clear! Expand
For your first question, changing player positions will have a negative impact in the tactic. Some changes are less bad, while others will make this tactic way worse. If you want to change formation, I would rather recommend you to filter a tactic in that formation from the table, since tactics are usually optimized to a specific shape.
About your second question, there is no much difference between natura and accomplished, but anything below that is not worth using yet. Train them to the new position and maybe let them play as subs, and they should become accomplished in around six months (from completely untrained).
About your last question, keeping the tactic instructions is more important than the quality of your player. I mean, I don't even pay much attention to most stats, I usually only look at pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling (for attacking players) or jumping reach (for defending players), since those are the attributes that impact the most on performance.
A friend of mine reviewed and commented on the tactic and said:
"For this tactic to be very effective, the Backs must have good technique, pass, vision, decision-making and composure. CM and SS's should be fast players and their off-ball characteristics should be high. Defensive playmaker, Backs and CM are key players for this tactic…
Since the opponent's defense will be pressed later in the tactics without a striker, if the defense line is max, the opponent defenders or the goalkeeper who pass well will miss too many people in the back. instead, very effective strikerless tactics can be created by pulling the defensive line forward one level and maximizing the pressure line.
The tactic is good in this state, and it presses a mixture of medium block and high block, but because the length of the team is very short, the balls that can be thrown back are very risky. this is the only one for me. Also, it is difficult to find a good Backs and usually coaches play players by recruiting from another position."
What do you think? Expand
When looking for players, I usually look for pace, acceleration, agility and either jumping reach (defenders and defensive midfielder) or dribble (all front position). I usually give double weight to pace and acceleration, so my filters are like: Acc/Pace 12+, Agi/Dri 11+ Acc/Pace 14+, Agi/Dri 12+ Acc/Pace 16+, Agi/Dri 13+ ...
You get the idea, acceleration and pace are double of agility and dribble or jumping reach, counting after 10.
I only look to other attributes to break ties, but if any player is clearly better in those more important attributes, then I completely ignore things like technique, passing, vision, decisions and composure.
I'm not saying those attributes are not important, I'm just saying I prefer to focus in 3 or 4 attributes that affect performance the most and it usually works for me, allowing me to overachieve even more than the tactic allows.
100ka said: seasone finsih and what tell ... so good tactic ... dont have that success whit normal FM 2021 (this is Touch verison ) i win some records in Serbian league whit most pts win in history of Serbian league 110 pts and no lose game in seasone so good evriting Expand
As training programs, should we use the "Pre-Season" image for the pre-Season you mentioned and the "In-Season" program during the Season for the whole season? Or will we have to do a different program? Expand
That's what I do, but I don't think it will be much worse if you use a different training routine (as long as you don't kill your players with too much work).
channibalism said: First of all, thank you very much for the tactic, I found it successful, yes... Thanks to Light Blue 3.0, I defeated Trabzonspor, standing at the top of the league, 6-2 and became the champion with double goal difference.
However, there are a few things I don't understand:
1- You said that we will play Dark Blue 3.0 against weak teams; yes, I play it like that, but we are very open in defense.
2- When you were in Blue 3.0, you said to switch to Light Blue 3.0 while we were ahead with 2 or more goals, we gave a deficit again and conceded a goal.
What would you suggest?
There are 4 tactics; Blue 3.0, Solid Blue 3.0, Light Blue 3.0, Dark Blue 3.0... When should we use these tactics? Expand
Thank you for testing the tactic!
About your questions, let me talk about the 4 tactics individually: Dark Blue is supposed to be used when you are desperate to score goals, sacrificing defense for attack. Personally, I don't use it, openning space for the other three tactics. I added it there because people asked for it, but I think Blue 3.0 is attacking enough already. Solid Blue is the opposite of Dark Blue, sacrificing attack to concede less goals. It's supposed to be used when you want to hold the score, usually when winning by 2+ goals, or even less if your opponent is stronger. It's also the tactic I use in the first half against very strong opponents, to make their players anxious at second half for not winning, which makes them play worse and allow me to grab a victory when I switch to Blue 3.0 at half time. Light Blue is a tactic to save energy and avoid bookings, supposed to be used when you think you can't lose anymore. I often use it when winning by 3+ goals. Also, the version I use has neutral tempo, saving even more energy. It's important to understand that this tactic performs worse than Blue or Solid Blue, because it sacrifices good opportunities in order to waste time. Blue is the standard tactic to be used anytime you want to maximize your winning chance. You can even use it the entire season without any problems, without any of the other tactics. It's very solid in the attack and defense, which is why it's in the top of the table for goal difference.
So, how would I use that against a team evenly matched? Start with Blue, change to Solid when winning by two goals, change to Light when winning by three goals. If they score a goal and reduce my lead to two goals, then I go back to Solid, and if they score again and reduce the lead to one goal, I then change back to Blue. That's what I usually do, but you can very well use Blue 3.0 the entire match without any problem.
Try it cautious instead of positive, it really helps me conceding less goals. P.S.: I'm so blind that I didn't notice it was an old tactic, first time I see it.
better we give IF / IW role or maybe W (at)?
I didn't test other roles for AML/R yet, but I got the feeling that wingers are better at ML/R than AML/R, just like in FM2021.
Roles and positions
Spoiler - TF-At > P-At, AF-At, F9-At, T-At > TF-Su, DLP-At > SS-At.
- For two strikers, best combination is two TF-At.
- IW-At, WM-At > IW-At (AM), RMD-At (AM), W-Su, DW-Su > W-Su (AM), W-At (AM).
- DLP-Su > DM-De.
- IWB-Su, WB-Su, FB-At > WB-Su (DM), IWB-At, FB-Su, WB-At, CWB-At.
- BPD-De, CD-De > WCB-De > WCB-Su.
- CM-At and two IW-At > three CM-At.
- CM-At and two TF-At > two CM-At and one TF-At.
- CM-At and DLP-Su > two DLP-Su, two RMP-Su.
- DW-Su + AF-At > DW-Su + TF-At
Team Instructions
Spoiler - Very high tempo > neutral tempo.
- Press much more often > neutral pressing.
- Much higher line of engagement > neutral line of engagement.
- Standard passing > more direct passing, shorter passing.
- Very attacking mentality > positive, attacking, cautious, balanced.
- Standard width > narrow, wide.
- Standard defensive line > much higher defensive line, much lower defensive line.
- Blank > overlap flanks, underlap flanks.
- Blank > force opposition outside, force opposition inside.
- Blank > pass into space.
- Blank > slow pace down.
Player Instructions
Spoiler - Take more risks > not take more risks.
- Cross less often > cross more often, blank.
IMPORTANT NOTE: These results are valid for the setup I'm testing. It is possibly valid for other different setups, but some combinations can create synergy and work better than each element individually. For example, WCB-Su didn't perform well for me, but it might perform well in combination with Cautious mentality and three DMs (I didn't test that, it's just an example). Since time is limited, it's not possible to test all different combinations.
Yeah, the new stamina system might need adjustments to tempo and press intensity.
P.S.: Just got the game, time to start playing around.
Should post results soon
If possible, try Fanatic too, please.
Waiting for money to ping in bank account to get it. Should happen the next couple days.
Thank you, gonna get it tomorrow and start playing around!
P.S.: The site just tells the cheapest source from trusted sites, it's nothing shady.
Just leave the instructions as they are, because changing them will reduce your team performance. This tactic will give you lots of opportunities for set pieces even without play for set pieces, so a good set piece taker will allow you to score lots of goals that way, anyway.
There are team dynamics in this image as well.
This is "fatigue".
I didn't add players that I didn't put in my starting 11.
This is "team report"
I think your players are good enough to do well. Team dynamics also seem to be fine. The only place to improve there would be training load, which can be made lighter by changing coach assignments. Basically, set your worst coach to train all categories, so he lessens the burden for everyone. You might need to hire an extra coach for that (if I remember well, you can also use a sub-23 or reserve assistant manager for that).
Anyway, I don't think any of that is the problem, so it probably has to do either with hidden attributes (inconsistency, lack of professionalism or something like that), or maybe you need to do better at team talk and shouts. Is your team doing well or bad in the table?
I couldn't start the new season as I had hoped this morning with Tactic.
my players; neither good nor bad. But we have the potential to be champions in our own league.
I buy 2 Pressing Forwards. But when I put it in Shadow Striker, I couldn't get any efficiency, they don't even press...
Despite their good finishing, they hit the opposite positions all the way to the crown, ahaha...
I took Nicolas Dominguez as the Defensive Playmaker. I discovered this football player on FM20. Reminds me of Toni Kroos.
But I still didn't get any results.
Center Midfielder - Attacking role; I loaned mcAtee from Manchester City. But unfortunately I couldn't get any results from it.
Also, all the players in the team are officially incapable of pressing. They don't even bother!
By the way, we are very bad in defense; A lot of oppositing player are getting out behind the defense.
As training; I use the training methods you gave me. As for Individual Player training, I use the methods you gave me.
Where am I doing wrong?
More precisely, what do I need to send you a screenshot of so that you can interpret and analyze it correctly?
Show your squad page with the following columns added: pace, acceleration, agility, dribbling and jumping reach. You can add new columns by right clicking in the top bar, in the name of any column.
Also, show team report -> analyst report -> comparison -> physical. Make sure each player is at least accomplished in the position they are playing, team morale is not so bad and players have good tactical affinity (it should be fine if they are set to train for the role they play).
That will cover the quality of your players.
Next, click medical centre and show me a screenshot after you sort the list by fatigue (just left click fatigue column name to sort it, from higher fatigue to lower). This will allow me to see if you are rotating well, as well as training load and injuries.
Finally, show me a screenshot of dynamics page, to see if the atmosphere is going well.
You might very well identify problems by yourself when you look at those pages, but I will also try to give you some input on how to solve any issues there.
Same with player roles and instructions. For example, if I put a good, but not great player who is natural in the SS-At role, will he be better than a great player who is only accomplished or competent in that role?
And if, in the player instructions, you tell a player for example to "run with ball often", but my player is bad at running with ball (10 or less), is it important to keep the instruction that you added, or should I take it off for that player? (in other words, what is more important for the effectiveness of the tactic, the capability of the player for that instruction, or the instruction itself?)
I hope I was clear!
For your first question, changing player positions will have a negative impact in the tactic. Some changes are less bad, while others will make this tactic way worse. If you want to change formation, I would rather recommend you to filter a tactic in that formation from the table, since tactics are usually optimized to a specific shape.
About your second question, there is no much difference between natura and accomplished, but anything below that is not worth using yet. Train them to the new position and maybe let them play as subs, and they should become accomplished in around six months (from completely untrained).
About your last question, keeping the tactic instructions is more important than the quality of your player. I mean, I don't even pay much attention to most stats, I usually only look at pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling (for attacking players) or jumping reach (for defending players), since those are the attributes that impact the most on performance.
A friend of mine reviewed and commented on the tactic and said:
"For this tactic to be very effective, the Backs must have good technique, pass, vision, decision-making and composure. CM and SS's should be fast players and their off-ball characteristics should be high. Defensive playmaker, Backs and CM are key players for this tactic…
Since the opponent's defense will be pressed later in the tactics without a striker, if the defense line is max, the opponent defenders or the goalkeeper who pass well will miss too many people in the back. instead, very effective strikerless tactics can be created by pulling the defensive line forward one level and maximizing the pressure line.
The tactic is good in this state, and it presses a mixture of medium block and high block, but because the length of the team is very short, the balls that can be thrown back are very risky. this is the only one for me. Also, it is difficult to find a good Backs and usually coaches play players by recruiting from another position."
What do you think?
When looking for players, I usually look for pace, acceleration, agility and either jumping reach (defenders and defensive midfielder) or dribble (all front position). I usually give double weight to pace and acceleration, so my filters are like:
Acc/Pace 12+, Agi/Dri 11+
Acc/Pace 14+, Agi/Dri 12+
Acc/Pace 16+, Agi/Dri 13+
...
You get the idea, acceleration and pace are double of agility and dribble or jumping reach, counting after 10.
I only look to other attributes to break ties, but if any player is clearly better in those more important attributes, then I completely ignore things like technique, passing, vision, decisions and composure.
I'm not saying those attributes are not important, I'm just saying I prefer to focus in 3 or 4 attributes that affect performance the most and it usually works for me, allowing me to overachieve even more than the tactic allows.
Gratz!
I'll try and let you know the results!
As training programs, should we use the "Pre-Season" image for the pre-Season you mentioned and the "In-Season" program during the Season for the whole season? Or will we have to do a different program?
That's what I do, but I don't think it will be much worse if you use a different training routine (as long as you don't kill your players with too much work).
Thanks to Light Blue 3.0, I defeated Trabzonspor, standing at the top of the league, 6-2 and became the champion with double goal difference.
However, there are a few things I don't understand:
1- You said that we will play Dark Blue 3.0 against weak teams; yes, I play it like that, but we are very open in defense.
2- When you were in Blue 3.0, you said to switch to Light Blue 3.0 while we were ahead with 2 or more goals, we gave a deficit again and conceded a goal.
What would you suggest?
There are 4 tactics; Blue 3.0, Solid Blue 3.0, Light Blue 3.0, Dark Blue 3.0...
When should we use these tactics?
Thank you for testing the tactic!
About your questions, let me talk about the 4 tactics individually:
Dark Blue is supposed to be used when you are desperate to score goals, sacrificing defense for attack. Personally, I don't use it, openning space for the other three tactics. I added it there because people asked for it, but I think Blue 3.0 is attacking enough already.
Solid Blue is the opposite of Dark Blue, sacrificing attack to concede less goals. It's supposed to be used when you want to hold the score, usually when winning by 2+ goals, or even less if your opponent is stronger. It's also the tactic I use in the first half against very strong opponents, to make their players anxious at second half for not winning, which makes them play worse and allow me to grab a victory when I switch to Blue 3.0 at half time.
Light Blue is a tactic to save energy and avoid bookings, supposed to be used when you think you can't lose anymore. I often use it when winning by 3+ goals. Also, the version I use has neutral tempo, saving even more energy. It's important to understand that this tactic performs worse than Blue or Solid Blue, because it sacrifices good opportunities in order to waste time.
Blue is the standard tactic to be used anytime you want to maximize your winning chance. You can even use it the entire season without any problems, without any of the other tactics. It's very solid in the attack and defense, which is why it's in the top of the table for goal difference.
So, how would I use that against a team evenly matched? Start with Blue, change to Solid when winning by two goals, change to Light when winning by three goals. If they score a goal and reduce my lead to two goals, then I go back to Solid, and if they score again and reduce the lead to one goal, I then change back to Blue. That's what I usually do, but you can very well use Blue 3.0 the entire match without any problem.
Ronaldo
C. Ronaldo - Pelé - Maradona - Messi
Matthäus
Maldini - Baresi - Beckembauer - Cafu
Neuer
Best player ever, in my opinion, is Matthäus, so he would definitely be there.
I would be surprised if a team with Maldini, Beckembauer, Kahn, Garrincha and Zidane didn't win every single game.
P.S.: I'm so blind that I didn't notice it was an old tactic, first time I see it.