To make it easier for people to find the best results, I added a field for "ZaZ Score", which basically gives a grade to each tactic (10 is the best).
Steelwood said: I also think they have ramped up the RNG this year, or at least it feels that way. I reckon last year Spring 0.1 would have been more consistent in your own testing even without FM-Arena's 1000 games Expand
I will run two more tests for each tactic, for a total of 4 runs of 8 teams. In each run, the results of best and worst teams are discarded, and my final score also discards the best and worst runs during calculation. That should give a better grasp of what tactic is expected to perform better, despite the variance and not running as many tests as FM-Arena.
sponsorkindest said: @ZaZ : thanks again! final question, so the reason why there is a high variability in ranking 4th and 12th (for spring) has to do more with the randomness within the game and you are testing for 38 games per team rather than for 10000 games like they do in fm-arena and to a lesser extend the volatility of the tactic. what i mean by volatility is a tactic like summer tend to give weird scores because of high scoring games and that might produce some weird season's during testing. Expand
Some tactics naturally have more variance than others, and I am also not controlling several factors from the game like morale or injuries, like FM-Arena tests do. It is not like having that variance is bad, it is just how statistics work. That's why I ran twice each tactic, so you can combine the results and have a more precise insight of performance. Instead of running the test and showing the best results, I show them all without a bias, and let my scoring system interpret if they did well or not compared to the other tactics. It is not as precise as FM-Arena's test, but it has value as an approximation. Someone who checks the table will know Spring 0.1 can perform not as well in a bad day, and Spring 0.11 will very often produce better results.
Skillz92 said: when is spring 0.11 releasing on here? Expand
the versions 0.XY are tentative, so I am still testing to see what will become Spring 0.2. I will leave it below if you want to try, since it is the current best. The difference is that the two CMs move to AM during possession. I am only updating to that table the versions that are worth showing, because there is no point showing versions with small changes that didn't perform well enough.
sponsorkindest said: hi @ZaZ : thanks for adding the excel file. looking at the sheet, is it safe to assume you ran the same tactics twice for the listed team. Lets take spring as an example, the 1st time you ran it, it ranked 4th but the 2nd time you ran it, it was ranked 12th among all the tactics you have tested till date. Expand
Yes, that's exactly how you should read it. If you want a combined score of both runs, you can get the average of the scores. For example, the combined score of Spring 0.1 for points would be 7.5, or (6.1 + 8.9) / 2. Keep in mind that my scores are an average of ranks (discarding best and worst values), so smaller is better. In other words, it means Spring 0.1 was on average 7.5th place when you rank points of all runs for each team.
Alexandru said: Thanks. Started with this one as just purchased the game. Console version which makes things harder As I cannot save tactics due to bug. Decided to play this tactics as played similar in FM24. So far 10 games in first league Ukraine with a team predicted as a 6-th finisher. 7 wins and 3 draws. Did one adjustment - I am using DLF or CF instead of one CHF Expand
Glad you like it! Please, let me know what you think of the way it plays, and results by the end of season. =)
Skillz92 said: okay i will keep and eye on here. thanks again Expand
Results are in the sheet now. Keep in mind that is just one test methodology, and results could be very different using another methodology like FM-Arena. Also, the tactics were tested in real teams, which means their squad could have some positive or negative impact for different formations, roles, or instructions.
Skillz92 said: okay brilliant thanks for letting me know, how long does it normally take? Expand
It should be ready later today or tomorrow, since I am only running the four main tactics, and the reference (Highway from @Gerrard). I will also post the results of two runs per tactic (each with 8 different teams), and I did some adjustments to the league to reduce variance (like setting injury proneness to 1).
Just the standard safe 343, based on Yellow, from FM22. Team instructions are simply Tackle Harder for all positions, and Make More Runs for the five frontliners. Let me know how it performs for you.
max 737 said: this is the real way testing to be carried out, by testing with the lower league squads, highly appreciated @ZaZ so the spring tactic is the best of all I can confirm? Expand
It has the best win rate and goal difference, but if you want to score more goals, Summer is better, and if you want to concede less, then Winter is better.
Just the standard solid 4123, based on Green, from FM22. Team instructions are simply Tackle Harder for all positions, and Make More Runs for the five frontliners. Let me know how it performs for you.
Here is the link for the spreadsheet. I will populate it with tactics that I feel are worth uploading, instead of the tests I do for smaller changes (tested around 100 variations so far).
Just the standard aggressive 4132, based on Blue, which was my tactic of choice for FM22. Team instructions are simply Tackle Harder for all positions. Let me know how it performs for you.
Just the standard balanced 424, based on Sapphire, which was my tactic of choice for FM24. Team instructions are simply Tackle Harder for all positions, and Make More Runs for the four frontliners. Let me know how it performs for you.
max 737 said: Thank you @ZaZ so for plug and play which tactic do you recommend as I wanna run a test? Expand
Winter 0.1 is more solid, so it has less variance. Summer 0.1 will give you more big wins, but also some losses that wouldn't happen with Winter 0.1. Personally I prefer Winter 0.1, but it is more about what you prefer to see in play.
I will add some screenshots for Summer 0.1 later today as well.
I will keep this version of Summer here. It scores less than Summer 0.2, but it is more balanced and has a better win rate (point per match) than Summer 2. The difference of this to the other is that in this version the frontline is set to track back in OOP. (Number is 0.1 because it was tested before 0.2. I did 0.01 - 0.10, then the best tactic of that group was called 0.1. Then 0.11-0.20, and the best was called 0.2.)
For anyone interest in how I decide which tactic is best, my tests are based on 8 league runs with different teams, then I rank the results and discard the best and worse, using the sum of middle 6 ranks as my score.
max 737 said: @ZaZ thank you Zaz but what’s the difference between the winter and summer tactic also which one is better? Expand
Winter: - Defense oriented, good when you want to play safe. - Concedes up to 50% less goals than Summer (depends on the team). - Two DMs needed. - Slightly higher point per match (win rate) than Summer.
Summer: - Attack oriented, good for matches where you want to see lots of goals. - Scores up to 50% more goals than Winter (depends on the team). - One DM and one AM needed.
Skillz92 said: has the update affected this tactic at all? also any news on the home tactic your working on? find your tactics always work very well and thank you! Expand
I didn't notice much difference compared to beta. About the more attacking tactic, it is not there yet, but I can post the current iteration below. It has a much better goal scoring ability, but I still want to get the win rate a bit closer to Winter tactic.
It got the best results in the experiments, for that configuration.
To make it easier for people to find the best results, I added a field for "ZaZ Score", which basically gives a grade to each tactic (10 is the best).
Steelwood said: I also think they have ramped up the RNG this year, or at least it feels that way. I reckon last year Spring 0.1 would have been more consistent in your own testing even without FM-Arena's 1000 games
I will run two more tests for each tactic, for a total of 4 runs of 8 teams. In each run, the results of best and worst teams are discarded, and my final score also discards the best and worst runs during calculation. That should give a better grasp of what tactic is expected to perform better, despite the variance and not running as many tests as FM-Arena.
Some tactics naturally have more variance than others, and I am also not controlling several factors from the game like morale or injuries, like FM-Arena tests do. It is not like having that variance is bad, it is just how statistics work. That's why I ran twice each tactic, so you can combine the results and have a more precise insight of performance. Instead of running the test and showing the best results, I show them all without a bias, and let my scoring system interpret if they did well or not compared to the other tactics. It is not as precise as FM-Arena's test, but it has value as an approximation. Someone who checks the table will know Spring 0.1 can perform not as well in a bad day, and Spring 0.11 will very often produce better results.
Skillz92 said: when is spring 0.11 releasing on here?
the versions 0.XY are tentative, so I am still testing to see what will become Spring 0.2. I will leave it below if you want to try, since it is the current best. The difference is that the two CMs move to AM during possession. I am only updating to that table the versions that are worth showing, because there is no point showing versions with small changes that didn't perform well enough.
Yes, that's exactly how you should read it. If you want a combined score of both runs, you can get the average of the scores. For example, the combined score of Spring 0.1 for points would be 7.5, or (6.1 + 8.9) / 2. Keep in mind that my scores are an average of ranks (discarding best and worst values), so smaller is better. In other words, it means Spring 0.1 was on average 7.5th place when you rank points of all runs for each team.
Glad you like it! Please, let me know what you think of the way it plays, and results by the end of season. =)
Results are in the sheet now. Keep in mind that is just one test methodology, and results could be very different using another methodology like FM-Arena. Also, the tactics were tested in real teams, which means their squad could have some positive or negative impact for different formations, roles, or instructions.
It should be ready later today or tomorrow, since I am only running the four main tactics, and the reference (Highway from @Gerrard). I will also post the results of two runs per tactic (each with 8 different teams), and I did some adjustments to the league to reduce variance (like setting injury proneness to 1).
I don't remember when it was tested, but I am running my tactics again in the current engine.
so the spring tactic is the best of all I can confirm?
It has the best win rate and goal difference, but if you want to score more goals, Summer is better, and if you want to concede less, then Winter is better.
P.S.: Updated the link to give view permissions.
Sure, I will organize a spreadsheet here with the best iterations of my tactics, and add other good tactics for reference.
Winter 0.1 is more solid, so it has less variance. Summer 0.1 will give you more big wins, but also some losses that wouldn't happen with Winter 0.1. Personally I prefer Winter 0.1, but it is more about what you prefer to see in play.
I will add some screenshots for Summer 0.1 later today as well.
For anyone interest in how I decide which tactic is best, my tests are based on 8 league runs with different teams, then I rank the results and discard the best and worse, using the sum of middle 6 ranks as my score.
Winter:
- Defense oriented, good when you want to play safe.
- Concedes up to 50% less goals than Summer (depends on the team).
- Two DMs needed.
- Slightly higher point per match (win rate) than Summer.
Summer:
- Attack oriented, good for matches where you want to see lots of goals.
- Scores up to 50% more goals than Winter (depends on the team).
- One DM and one AM needed.
I didn't notice much difference compared to beta. About the more attacking tactic, it is not there yet, but I can post the current iteration below. It has a much better goal scoring ability, but I still want to get the win rate a bit closer to Winter tactic.