But don't expect the testing server is working at its full capacity at the begging.
We're planning to start at slow pace to be sure that everything works as intended and polish things.
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestion.
But to be honest right now at the begging we aren't looking to do something fancy, we are focused just on on bringing the basic functionally up and running, then at some point later we can consider bringing something more robust and fancy. Expand
Fair, I was just giving an idea for the future. The top priority should be to start.
Consider implementing the possibility to filter results against different formations. For example, if the test league has opponents using 10 different tactics, and 6k matches are played, then you could allow people to see the results of 600 matches against each tactic. This would allow people to plan better against different scenarios, especially against other players, or against the strongest teams of their league.
max 737 said: @ZaZ Just see what I have been able to achieve with your tactic and yes I played with your set pieces today. How do the set pieces affect or rather improve the tactic in itself any idea? Expand
There are two types of set pieces, the scoring opportunities, and the transitional stops (when the match is interrupted without a clear chance to score). The first type of set piece improve tactics by increasing chance to score or reducing chance to concede. The transitional stops, on the other hand, are a challenge to keep possession and an opportunity to move to more advantageous parts of the field, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve there.
All that said, both defending and attacking set pieces also affect counter attack chances after those events, so having more players or less players advanced when you are defending can increase your chances to score if you defend with success.
In my personal experiments with Autumn 0.2 and Winter 0.2, it improved a lot the goals scored and points per match, but didn't change significantly the goals conceded. I am not sure if it didn't improve defense because we are talking only about six or seven goals per season (so reducing one or two wouldn't make much of a difference), or if it was because scoring more goals make the team relax and concede more during match (usually happens when you have a larger lead), outweighing the gains from better defensive set pieces.
Panneton0 said: I might not have been clear. I am fully aware that attributes have their strenghts and that this is all a multi-variable problem. The question is whether the ME makes micro-computations "on the spot" with true complex interactions between attributes or if it is only a render of more macro-computations that only ponderates "success" with main attributes.
In other words, is it true that "high pace = best decisions" or is the huge success of pace more an indicator that ME does not make "decisions" and "vision" shine enough during the play-by-play computations. Expand
High pace is not about decisions, it is about performing well even when players make bad decisions. A pass that goes too far can still be recovered simply because the player moves faster than the opponent, or a character that takes too long to anticipate can still intercept the ball simply because he moves like an arrow. That's what makes mobility attributes so strong, because they make bad decisions into good decisions.
Yarema said: I think you are approaching the question from the wrong direction. Every single game has a meta = strategy or decisions that produce the best result. Doesn't matter if it's tic tac toe or something more complex like chess or FM. So for any given set of conditions there is an optimal solution, whether we find it or not and how close we get is kind of irrelevant.
The way (computer) games tend to solve this issue is by making slight changes, buffs and nerfs if you will, that force players to adapt and switch the strategy. Where SI fell short is that they simply didn't or couldn't adjust this complex ME enough for it to make a significant difference - or maybe they did at a secondary attributes level, but physicals have always been king for more than 2 decades now. If you can't tackle you can just outsprint and outmuscle someone for example. Another thing in favor of physicals is that they are not affected by consistency unlike the other categories. I don't expect any more huge changes in attribute strength this FM, they already did more than I expected but we can hope.
Fairly sure attributes have been tested in other tactical systems and produced similar results. Expand
Just some additional input, problems with multiple variables and objectives often have multiple solutions that are not comparable to each other. In case of Football Manager, you could have three tactics in which A > B > C > A. Some tactic could also have higher influence of player attributes than another, or some tactic could be better suited for a match where you just need to hold a score, without worrying about building advantage.
I have been testing set pieces, and these got me the best results so far. However, it is pretty hard to test set pieces effectively, so I would appreciate if others could test and share results, and maybe how they compare to other set pieces. Let me know how it worked for you!
Cresudian said: Hi, nice job as usual with these tactics. I am using Automn and Winter based on the opponent and the results are very very good. did you work also on any schedule training? I am still using the ones you recommended for fm24 and the results are so so so if you or anybody have anything to share, you are more than welcome. Thanks again for your amazing work Expand
Thank you! And sorry, I didn't test any training yet. I just finished my first experiments with Set Pieces, so maybe I will move to training next.
In my experience, it didn't work so well with Como. I played (managed) 7 games with 5 losses and 2 draws. After that, I decided to simulate the entire season. At least, I keep the category.
However, I believe with the right players, this tactic could achieve amazing things! Thanks for sharing Expand
max 737 said: Sorry and one last question do you have to train individual roles? Or leave individual training to the AM? Expand
I train them for what I want them to play, but I didn't do any testing to know what is more efficient. Some argue it is better to worry only about position, and leave role simply to define attribute growth in training, which is a fair approach.
max 737 said: The tactic grows on you, maybe not as high scoring as Winter and not as many wins or clean sheets..but except for the CL I won everything else Expand
max 737 said: Sorry mate but I was comparing Autumn 0.2 and Winter 0.2 Expand
You are mixing a lot of tactics in the threads, so it gets a bit confused. Maybe it is a good idea to keep things in their specific places, for clarity.
About your question, they are pretty close like I said before, but I personally prefer Winter. When results are so close, it needs a better testing suite to be able to say which tactic is the best, and at the moment only FM-Arena can do that when they start testing.
max 737 said: @ZaZ I would love to try this out after all the success with winter, how do you rate it as compared to winter? Expand
I have a feeling this tactic is better than Winter with the right players, especially if you get proficient wingers / attacking midfielders. I cannot confirm this theory, it is just a feeling. That being said, Winter performed better in my experiments, but keep in mind the experiments use the initial squad, so some tactics might suffer more than other because of position proficiency.
After failing to improve Summer 0.1, I decided to abandon the initial concept and move to a different direction with higher potential of improvement. This tactic funnels attacks through the middle, and defends with a line of six. Let me know how it works for you!
I just want to inform you that we need 2-3 days more to iron things out and start testing tactics for FM26.
Bugs in the pre-game editor and in the game itself were slowing us down because we had to combat them and fining workarounds for it.
For example, a feature to duplicate players, staff and other things in the pre-game editor is bugged for FM26 and finding a workaround for it caused a lot of headaches for us.
Also, there're bizarre things such as inability to load a tactic if you renamed the tactic file and the file name becomes different from the tactic name, which were used to save the tactic. Probably, many of you already have encountered this issue when tried to import a tactic and got an error in-game massage "This file can't be loaded".
Another thing, if you have multiple human managers in a game save and one of them "went on holidays" then other active managers can't save the game and can't use the in-game editor, to do that they have to wait until the manager "on holidays" is back from the holidays.
I don't even want to mention that there're cases when the game UI becomes unresponsive and everything just freezes.
Anyway, as I said all the obstacles were overcome and we just need 2-3 days to iron things out and starts testing! Expand
You guys are doing wonders with the buggy mess that is FM26!
max 737 said: @ZaZ Sorry to post out of context do you use any OI's or AM dugout shouts in the match. Also, which set pieces are we using currently? Did autumn 0.2 get a better score in your tests? Expand
For my experiments, I don't use any OI, shouts, set pieces, or team selection. During normal game play, I do, but I didn't test which are the optimal yet, and I am 100% sure FM-Arena will do a better job at that before I even start testing.
About Autumn 0.2 vs Spring 0.2, they are very close in performance, and any difference in the test are probably statistical variance. My recommendation is to use the one you like the most.
EnculoRaptor3000 said: Hi ZaZ, the 0.11 is working good and I want to try this one, the Left winger need to be natural with the right foot or like a real winger, with the left foot ? Expand
The footing doesn't affect much the performance, so you can use any foot in any side.
Sure, it's also coming.
But don't expect the testing server is working at its full capacity at the begging.
We're planning to start at slow pace to be sure that everything works as intended and polish things.
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestion.
But to be honest right now at the begging we aren't looking to do something fancy, we are focused just on on bringing the basic functionally up and running, then at some point later we can consider bringing something more robust and fancy.
Fair, I was just giving an idea for the future. The top priority should be to start.
There are two types of set pieces, the scoring opportunities, and the transitional stops (when the match is interrupted without a clear chance to score). The first type of set piece improve tactics by increasing chance to score or reducing chance to concede. The transitional stops, on the other hand, are a challenge to keep possession and an opportunity to move to more advantageous parts of the field, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve there.
All that said, both defending and attacking set pieces also affect counter attack chances after those events, so having more players or less players advanced when you are defending can increase your chances to score if you defend with success.
Gets even better with the set pieces.
In other words, is it true that "high pace = best decisions" or is the huge success of pace more an indicator that ME does not make "decisions" and "vision" shine enough during the play-by-play computations.
High pace is not about decisions, it is about performing well even when players make bad decisions. A pass that goes too far can still be recovered simply because the player moves faster than the opponent, or a character that takes too long to anticipate can still intercept the ball simply because he moves like an arrow. That's what makes mobility attributes so strong, because they make bad decisions into good decisions.
The way (computer) games tend to solve this issue is by making slight changes, buffs and nerfs if you will, that force players to adapt and switch the strategy. Where SI fell short is that they simply didn't or couldn't adjust this complex ME enough for it to make a significant difference - or maybe they did at a secondary attributes level, but physicals have always been king for more than 2 decades now. If you can't tackle you can just outsprint and outmuscle someone for example. Another thing in favor of physicals is that they are not affected by consistency unlike the other categories.
I don't expect any more huge changes in attribute strength this FM, they already did more than I expected but we can hope.
Fairly sure attributes have been tested in other tactical systems and produced similar results.
Just some additional input, problems with multiple variables and objectives often have multiple solutions that are not comparable to each other. In case of Football Manager, you could have three tactics in which A > B > C > A. Some tactic could also have higher influence of player attributes than another, or some tactic could be better suited for a match where you just need to hold a score, without worrying about building advantage.
Throw-Ins are set to Retain Possession and Work Into Box
nice job as usual with these tactics.
I am using Automn and Winter based on the opponent and the results are very very good.
did you work also on any schedule training?
I am still using the ones you recommended for fm24 and the results are so so
so if you or anybody have anything to share, you are more than welcome.
Thanks again for your amazing work
Thank you! And sorry, I didn't test any training yet. I just finished my first experiments with Set Pieces, so maybe I will move to training next.
Thank you for testing, and glad it is working well!
In my experience, it didn't work so well with Como. I played (managed) 7 games with 5 losses and 2 draws. After that, I decided to simulate the entire season. At least, I keep the category.
However, I believe with the right players, this tactic could achieve amazing things!
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for testing!
I train them for what I want them to play, but I didn't do any testing to know what is more efficient. Some argue it is better to worry only about position, and leave role simply to define attribute growth in training, which is a fair approach.
Thank you for testing!
You are mixing a lot of tactics in the threads, so it gets a bit confused. Maybe it is a good idea to keep things in their specific places, for clarity.
About your question, they are pretty close like I said before, but I personally prefer Winter. When results are so close, it needs a better testing suite to be able to say which tactic is the best, and at the moment only FM-Arena can do that when they start testing.
I have a feeling this tactic is better than Winter with the right players, especially if you get proficient wingers / attacking midfielders. I cannot confirm this theory, it is just a feeling. That being said, Winter performed better in my experiments, but keep in mind the experiments use the initial squad, so some tactics might suffer more than other because of position proficiency.
I just want to inform you that we need 2-3 days more to iron things out and start testing tactics for FM26.
Bugs in the pre-game editor and in the game itself were slowing us down because we had to combat them and fining workarounds for it.
For example, a feature to duplicate players, staff and other things in the pre-game editor is bugged for FM26 and finding a workaround for it caused a lot of headaches for us.
Also, there're bizarre things such as inability to load a tactic if you renamed the tactic file and the file name becomes different from the tactic name, which were used to save the tactic. Probably, many of you already have encountered this issue when tried to import a tactic and got an error in-game massage "This file can't be loaded".
Another thing, if you have multiple human managers in a game save and one of them "went on holidays" then other active managers can't save the game and can't use the in-game editor, to do that they have to wait until the manager "on holidays" is back from the holidays.
I don't even want to mention that there're cases when the game UI becomes unresponsive and everything just freezes.
Anyway, as I said all the obstacles were overcome and we just need 2-3 days to iron things out and starts testing!
You guys are doing wonders with the buggy mess that is FM26!
For my experiments, I don't use any OI, shouts, set pieces, or team selection. During normal game play, I do, but I didn't test which are the optimal yet, and I am 100% sure FM-Arena will do a better job at that before I even start testing.
About Autumn 0.2 vs Spring 0.2, they are very close in performance, and any difference in the test are probably statistical variance. My recommendation is to use the one you like the most.
The footing doesn't affect much the performance, so you can use any foot in any side.