Skillz92 said: has the update affected this tactic at all? also any news on the home tactic your working on? find your tactics always work very well and thank you! Expand
I didn't notice much difference compared to beta. About the more attacking tactic, it is not there yet, but I can post the current iteration below. It has a much better goal scoring ability, but I still want to get the win rate a bit closer to Winter tactic.
Skillz92 said: Hi do you have any advice for away games or against a bigger team? Expand
This tactic is generally good for away matches or bigger teams. If anything, I would use a more attacking tactic for home matches or against smaller teams, just to see more goals happening. I am working in one right now, but I am not entirely satisfied yet.
max 737 said: Dear Zaz I'm your big fan since many years because of your work. Highly appreciate you serving the FM community. Regarding this tactic can you post the results etc Expand
Here a simple 424 that has been working well for me. Below are some results in holiday mode, just starting a new game and setting the tactic (no team selection, set pieces, or anything else).
FaltaM said: In theory, we can combine the most effective out-of-possession (OOP) shape in FM24—like 4-4-2 or 4-2-4—with the most goal-productive in-possession (IP) shape, such as a 1-4-2-3 or a more conservative setup like 2-2-5-1. These shapes often rely on two defensive midfielders (DMs), similar to the 4-2-3-1 gegenpress meta that's widely used in FM24 Expand
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. The position of players when you recover the ball have great influence on how counter-attacks develop, so the OOP is very important for attacking, not only for defense. The same can be said about IP for defense, on how you are positioned against counter-attacks. The game is still in beta, we will see lots of fun tactics when tests start.
I have tried tactics with one DM, but they work the same as FM24. Not completely bad, but apparently two DMs still work better. There is still a long way to test combinations of IP and OOP, though.
I am so frustrated with this new version. The UI is terrible, and it takes 10x more clicks to reach the same things, when you can find them. Then when you find it, you click out of the intended area and it goes to a completely random place. They tried to make the tactics screen look intuitive, but it is a complete mess, and I still don't know how to see player and team instructions easily, without having to click each of the players. It is really hard to enjoy the game when the only improvement seems to be the in and out possession feature, and everything else seems like a downgrade.
The UI seems better organized, but looks much worse than before. I also had the game crashing three or four times already, and I cannot go in vacations with more than one manager. I know they changed to Unity Engine, but it seems like those two years were not enough to make a polished product.
Yarema said: All of these sound really good. Maybe add mentoring and it's impact (assuming it still exists) as well as just general personality and hidden attributes progression as players age.
I've always had a soft spot for youth intakes. Not usually your area but perhaps later on in the cycle when you've completed the above I feel there is still some hidden information. Specifically I feel that some effects are immediate as in the day before intake, some before preview and some (and this might be a bit tinfoil hat theory) might take 2-3 seasons to show. Expand
I might investigate intake, and I also believe it considers your setup in the exact day of intake, and not before or after that. I will add it to the list.
About mentoring, it is a bit harder to verify, because it happens over a long time and there are many variables that can influence development during that time. I simply think it is not worth the time investment to check how mentoring works, compared to other stuff.
About progression of attributes with age, I can check it later considering not only hidden attributes, but also physical, technical and mental. I will see if it can be done, but it is also time consuming and will be left for later.
alexej said: Looks good and I look forward to seeing the results this yields. Ive asked before, but do you know any plans on changes to tactic testing going into FM26 with new IP and OP formations? Does anyone know how long itll take to setup the testing database and how long itll take to get it running? Expand
They are usually pretty fast, and I believe they will test the combination of IP and OP (which will probably be saved together).
jojoloko said: Thanks for providing the CA guide, I'm not sure what I'm missing but I cant really wrap my head around it. Maybe I am missing something obvious, maybe someone can help me to understand. In the guide there are a couple of factors mentioned that could explain the CA difference, but they all dont really apply here imo.
Attribute weighting: Both players play the exact same positions so their attribute weighting should be the same. The major difference in the highly weighted attributes between the players are composure (+3 for Davidson) and dribbling (+3 for Sall), with dribbling being weighted even higher according to GS coefficients. Even tho Davidson has +1 Acc which is a fairly highly weighted attribute, it shouldnt make such a difference, right? After all Sall has +2 Anticipation, +1 Pace, +1 Crossing, +3 Vision, +1 Technique, +1 Off the ball, which all are highly weighted attributes.
Position and weak foot: As mentioned they both play the same exact positions (AM L/F C) and even have the same strength in their weaker foot (10L/20R each), although im not sure if GS uses that to calculate the CA.
So after looking at the weightings of the attributes and reading the CA guide it makes even less sense to me. I am aware that the CA doesnt really matter but I'd just like to understand how Davidson has a higher CA than Sall according to GS. If I'm missing something obvious please let me know. Thanks Expand
Check if they have the same proficiency in their positions. A player with 20 FW and 18 AML will have different CA than a player with 20 in each position (even if they both show as a green circle), because playing in multiple positions affect the weight of attributes. I cannot tell exactly how it is calculated, but I am pretty sure it takes the highest weight of all positions, so a versatile player will have lower attributes for the same CA.
I have a set of plans for early FM 26, and would like to hear your suggestions of what to add to the plan. My tests when the game is released include: - Tactics, with one or two submissions a day for FM Arena. - Hiring players, for optimal impact in transfer budget and finances. - Negotiating contracts, for optimal impact in wage budget. - Selling players, for optimal revenue. - Training schedule and resting, for minimizing injuries and promoting focused growth. - Interactions, with thresholds for positive feedback, to optimize morale management. - Team talk and touchline shouts, with guidelines for positive feedback. - Set pieces, to further improve the tactics. - Scouting and finding good players without third party tools, trying to identify players with high PA and positive hidden attributes. - Youth player intake, how to optimize the CA and PA of new players, and if it is possible to influence their positions. - Player traits, trying to identify if any of them is noticeably efficient. - Opposition instructions, to improve tactics even further.
Is this enough, or is there anything else you would like me to investigate?
Sandpiper said: Do certain attributes have faster rate of growth than others from 8 to 20 thus making it more important to focus on these in early years with extra focus training. Expand
I didn't notice much difference between growing, for example, from 10 > 11 compared to growing from 15 > 16. The speed of growth seems linear, and what makes the biggest difference are age, PA - CA difference, and quality of training facilities and staff. However, it seems like the game has a cap of how much each attribute can grow per season.
That being said, you have from 15-25 years old to grow attributes effectively (being optimistic), and after that the speed of growth is highly reduced. Your goal is to reach PA around that age, while getting as much Pace and Acceleration as you can in the years preceding that. If you reach PA at a younger age, that means you cannot grow Pace and Acceleration anymore, resulting in a "sub-optimal" player development. If you reach 25 years old without full PA, then you also developed a sub-optimal player, because other attributes also matter, especially from a financial aspect (more money = better players).
What some people do is to use the youth setup to grow Pace and Acceleration, with training schedules that grow Pace and Acceleration without increasing CA, and transition to normal full training schedule when they reach main team, around 18 years old (or 20, depending on how patient you are). That will allow your young players to easily reach 18+ Pace and Acceleration, but it is a very long term investment, and it is often better to simply buy fast young players from start.
I'm trying to get promoted with a lower league (B) team, and I was wondering: what kind of transfers should I avoid? As you know, it's really hard to bring top-quality players to these teams. What criteria should I focus on when signing players for lower leagues?
Thanks in advance! Expand
If you are using one of the top tactics, you can get promoted to top leagues as long as your squad is somewhat balanced and you can keep your players fresh across the season. That being said, refer to this table to pick your players: https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
TL;DR: Pace / Acceleration >>> Stamina / Anticipation / Dribbling / Jumping Reach > remaining attributes. I put three ">" to emphasize they are much more important than the secondary attributes, and you should probably only look at the other attributes to break ties.
SaMaHaJoGu said: Listen. What are the chances we stop changing the attributes for the entire team and then just on one position at a time and then run sims for each attribute change until we have a large enough pool to average out the difference? And then we do per position change ratings? Because here’s my thinking about some of these attributes that are “for show”. Decisions, Off the Ball, Vision and the like… that maybe they have less impact on the result, but more impact on how well a player performs per the game’s ratings engine. I’ve had a few test runs of Decisions in my recent RMadrid save. I run Bellingham as a CM-A. I then change his Decisions up and down. What ends up happening is when his Decisions is low, I’ll likely still win (because I’m RMadrid and I have a solid tactic (personal tactic that actually appears like the World Cup winner’s tactic but with a CM-A instead of an AM-A. Pretty much the same… and my FBs are support). But anyway. Solid tactic. Anywho… I’d usually win anyway… but Bellingham’s ratings average out to be poor/good per his Decisions attribute. Even when I win, he might still have a lower rating because he made poor “decisions”.
It looks like the match engine understands my team’s superior and my tactic is superior (tested with Elche and got top 10 two seasons in a row). But Bellingham may, or may not, be good in those matches. And I often see highlights where Bellingham loses the ball randomly that leads to an opponent highlight counter. They may not score, but they get close enough because of him. And then when his decisions is 20, even when I lose, he did well. So… again. Looking like cosmetics to the actual engine, but appears to help the player’s contribution and pads their stats. But if everyone has the same Decisions attribute, the engine is going to think they’re all making the same good decisions so we can’t weigh it on a per player basis if you get what I mean?
Then again… it’s Bellingham. Just with 1 or 20 for Decisions. Even if he made bad choices, dude would still kill it in midfield. Lol! But food for thought. Expand
I didn't notice much difference compared to beta. About the more attacking tactic, it is not there yet, but I can post the current iteration below. It has a much better goal scoring ability, but I still want to get the win rate a bit closer to Winter tactic.
This tactic is generally good for away matches or bigger teams. If anything, I would use a more attacking tactic for home matches or against smaller teams, just to see more goals happening. I am working in one right now, but I am not entirely satisfied yet.
Hi, Max! I will work on some efficient set pieces later, but there are some very good ones being shared around.
Regarding this tactic can you post the results etc
Sure, I will post it later today.
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. The position of players when you recover the ball have great influence on how counter-attacks develop, so the OOP is very important for attacking, not only for defense. The same can be said about IP for defense, on how you are positioned against counter-attacks. The game is still in beta, we will see lots of fun tactics when tests start.
Sure, I will add that.
Well, I don't work at FM-Arena.
I've always had a soft spot for youth intakes. Not usually your area but perhaps later on in the cycle when you've completed the above I feel there is still some hidden information. Specifically I feel that some effects are immediate as in the day before intake, some before preview and some (and this might be a bit tinfoil hat theory) might take 2-3 seasons to show.
I might investigate intake, and I also believe it considers your setup in the exact day of intake, and not before or after that. I will add it to the list.
About mentoring, it is a bit harder to verify, because it happens over a long time and there are many variables that can influence development during that time. I simply think it is not worth the time investment to check how mentoring works, compared to other stuff.
About progression of attributes with age, I can check it later considering not only hidden attributes, but also physical, technical and mental. I will see if it can be done, but it is also time consuming and will be left for later.
They are usually pretty fast, and I believe they will test the combination of IP and OP (which will probably be saved together).
Attribute weighting: Both players play the exact same positions so their attribute weighting should be the same. The major difference in the highly weighted attributes between the players are composure (+3 for Davidson) and dribbling (+3 for Sall), with dribbling being weighted even higher according to GS coefficients. Even tho Davidson has +1 Acc which is a fairly highly weighted attribute, it shouldnt make such a difference, right? After all Sall has +2 Anticipation, +1 Pace, +1 Crossing, +3 Vision, +1 Technique, +1 Off the ball, which all are highly weighted attributes.
Position and weak foot: As mentioned they both play the same exact positions (AM L/F C) and even have the same strength in their weaker foot (10L/20R each), although im not sure if GS uses that to calculate the CA.
So after looking at the weightings of the attributes and reading the CA guide it makes even less sense to me. I am aware that the CA doesnt really matter but I'd just like to understand how Davidson has a higher CA than Sall according to GS. If I'm missing something obvious please let me know. Thanks
Check if they have the same proficiency in their positions. A player with 20 FW and 18 AML will have different CA than a player with 20 in each position (even if they both show as a green circle), because playing in multiple positions affect the weight of attributes. I cannot tell exactly how it is calculated, but I am pretty sure it takes the highest weight of all positions, so a versatile player will have lower attributes for the same CA.
- Tactics, with one or two submissions a day for FM Arena.
- Hiring players, for optimal impact in transfer budget and finances.
- Negotiating contracts, for optimal impact in wage budget.
- Selling players, for optimal revenue.
- Training schedule and resting, for minimizing injuries and promoting focused growth.
- Interactions, with thresholds for positive feedback, to optimize morale management.
- Team talk and touchline shouts, with guidelines for positive feedback.
- Set pieces, to further improve the tactics.
- Scouting and finding good players without third party tools, trying to identify players with high PA and positive hidden attributes.
- Youth player intake, how to optimize the CA and PA of new players, and if it is possible to influence their positions.
- Player traits, trying to identify if any of them is noticeably efficient.
- Opposition instructions, to improve tactics even further.
Is this enough, or is there anything else you would like me to investigate?
I didn't notice much difference between growing, for example, from 10 > 11 compared to growing from 15 > 16. The speed of growth seems linear, and what makes the biggest difference are age, PA - CA difference, and quality of training facilities and staff. However, it seems like the game has a cap of how much each attribute can grow per season.
That being said, you have from 15-25 years old to grow attributes effectively (being optimistic), and after that the speed of growth is highly reduced. Your goal is to reach PA around that age, while getting as much Pace and Acceleration as you can in the years preceding that. If you reach PA at a younger age, that means you cannot grow Pace and Acceleration anymore, resulting in a "sub-optimal" player development. If you reach 25 years old without full PA, then you also developed a sub-optimal player, because other attributes also matter, especially from a financial aspect (more money = better players).
What some people do is to use the youth setup to grow Pace and Acceleration, with training schedules that grow Pace and Acceleration without increasing CA, and transition to normal full training schedule when they reach main team, around 18 years old (or 20, depending on how patient you are). That will allow your young players to easily reach 18+ Pace and Acceleration, but it is a very long term investment, and it is often better to simply buy fast young players from start.
I'm trying to get promoted with a lower league (B) team, and I was wondering: what kind of transfers should I avoid? As you know, it's really hard to bring top-quality players to these teams. What criteria should I focus on when signing players for lower leagues?
Thanks in advance!
If you are using one of the top tactics, you can get promoted to top leagues as long as your squad is somewhat balanced and you can keep your players fresh across the season. That being said, refer to this table to pick your players: https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
TL;DR: Pace / Acceleration >>> Stamina / Anticipation / Dribbling / Jumping Reach > remaining attributes. I put three ">" to emphasize they are much more important than the secondary attributes, and you should probably only look at the other attributes to break ties.
It looks like the match engine understands my team’s superior and my tactic is superior (tested with Elche and got top 10 two seasons in a row). But Bellingham may, or may not, be good in those matches. And I often see highlights where Bellingham loses the ball randomly that leads to an opponent highlight counter. They may not score, but they get close enough because of him. And then when his decisions is 20, even when I lose, he did well. So… again. Looking like cosmetics to the actual engine, but appears to help the player’s contribution and pads their stats. But if everyone has the same Decisions attribute, the engine is going to think they’re all making the same good decisions so we can’t weigh it on a per player basis if you get what I mean?
Then again… it’s Bellingham. Just with 1 or 20 for Decisions. Even if he made bad choices, dude would still kill it in midfield. Lol! But food for thought.
Everyone wants that, but it takes time to do.