Meriten said: There is a big problem. One example: Anticipation is good but Decision is bad in context of CA efficiency according to the test results on fm-arena. But there is no training session which trains more Anticipation but less Decision.
Excerpt from MaxEBFM results:
Another example is Acceleration/Pace (both are good) and Agility (bad). I tried to beat the system by using a good and a bad coach but that doesn't work either. Anticipation/Decision is trained by the same coach and Acceleration/Pace/Agility is trained by the same coach too.
Another problem is that we don't know all good attributes. Stamina e.g. is bad according to fm-arena test results but good according to ykykyk. Expand
Just as a reminder, the fact that one attribute did not get impressive results in the table of FM-Arena does not mean that attribute is useless. For example, stamina might be impactful only for two or three players, like DM and WBs, which represents less than 30% of the team. In that case, even if Stamina is as impactful as Pace and Acceleration for those positions, it will still give worse results than attributes that have impact across all roles.
Han106 said: Through this series, I will list some training sessions and create some training schedules that are based off of EBFM's FM23 analysis but change the metrics to fit the meta attributes that have proven to be the best. This is part 1 discussing the best Physical training sessions, what I believe are the most important.
Changes This is a rewrite of my previous analysis. Things have changed since the last time, like a new leader , Katana 4231 104p v3.1, I also am using more weights based on the @ZaZ's under 50 minus 25 weights from the linked post. I adjusted some weights to fit first the tactic and some of my personal tastes. You can find it here. I came up with the best training sessions based on these weights. I also attached pictures for ease of understanding!
Physical Training Results As you can see, Physical is still the best as per EBFM's findings, but for DM and DL they responded better to Resistance training. The other two trainings sadly are far below the standards of Physical and Resistance. You can find the condensed and actually presentable spreadsheet here. All training data is gathered from EBFM's excel file here and his video that is from his excellent series of experiments here.
Conclusion So it looks like having a ratio of 2 Physical to 1 Resistance is the way to go. When I create my schedule 3 of the 18 sessions will include those sessions like so.
I will do more analysis on this later some time. Expand
It is a bit funny to call it "training" when players just lay in a hammock all week waiting for next match.
Sanassy09 said: Good evening, I would like to know the minimum to have for the meta attributes. I had seen on Twitter that 12+ is a league team, 13+ European, 14+ champion league. I would also like to know for individual training in "priorities" what should I put? Expand
There is no such thing as a minimum, it is all about which players are willing to join your team, and that is mostly defined by your reputation and budget. What I would say is to not get a slow player, so if player with 14 pace and acceleration are willing to join your team, then you should never hire someone with 8 or 9. However, it is ok to go a bit below the "minimum" if it is a player with potential of growth, for example.
Zvo92 said: Thank you for answer. Tactics are great, but I have a lot of good midfielders in my save. Do you have any advice so that I can have another player in a middle, it doesn't have to be DLP? Expand
You can try this tactic. It is very good, and uses two central midfielders.
keithb said: no worries zaz. I do try to rotate my team by playing players who are peak condition and try not to start players who are tired, unless it is my best players in big games. Do you think there is any benefit to that? Obviously their condition in the game should decrease slower and it prevents the tired players from becoming fatigued. Expand
Fatigue still affects performance when it reaches the "Rst" icon level, so rotating is still needed. Condition also has effect on performance, so if you have two similar players, one at 100% and another at 90% condition, then the 100% will perform better.
ZaZ said: It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training. Expand
After some more testing, I believe the effect of fatigue on performance was just statistical noise. Sorry if anyone was mislead by that. I am still doing more tests to confirm other things with fatigue.
Standard metric is pace and acceleration, with dribbling and jumping reach as tie breakers. Other attributes are cool, but I would rather pay less for a player with very high value on those attributes, than spend ten times the price for someone balanced across all attributes.
Got requested to try and simulate the style of Abel Ferreira, one of the most successful managers from South America at the moment, for Palmeiras. Right winger is more of a Defensive Winger, but I changed to Inverted Winger to keep the ability to remove "tackle harder", without losing much performance. Their goalkeeper also uses "throw it long" instead, but that is more of a trait from Weverton than a tactical instruction. I got a bit of reference from this tactic.
Can I just say, totally off topic, that this post is in the top half a dozen viewed posts of all time on FM Arena with over 130k views, and the highest of any non tactic post on the site. So clearly a subject that is important to the FM Community.
Out of interest, the top 2 by a massive margin, are both from the great @ZaZ with ZaZ Blue 4.0 in FM22 tactics with over 630k views, and ZaZ Blue 3.0 in FM21 tactics with just under 580K views. In third is Phoenix v5.0 in FM21 tactics with over 230k views. Expand
That is actually nice to know! That means people need you for positional filters in FM24.
GabBau said: Hello. I apologize in advance for my English.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you Expand
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Any tactic from the hall of fame will allow you to overachieve, so it is a matter of what type of tactics you like the most. In my opinion, this one from @sponsorkindest is the best for squad management.
mimmuscatania said: I was hoping for it too but I think he won't be there for 23 I too had gotten used to his tactics in fact I went back to fm 22 Expand
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
NandaldiaN said: @ZaZ im using your "rest" recomendation and your training routine, its supposed to be used since pre-season right? im getting some long duration injuries (can be rng), fatigue metrics seems fine. Any advice? Expand
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
Gracolas said: I know im going to get a lot of hate here, but: gaming community is so toxic at the moment.. if companies put the effort to release updates every now and then, they get hated because it takes too long, if they dont release any update they also get hate because they dont care about the community, if they go on a weekly update system, they also get hate because they launched a unfinished product..
You guys are never happy Expand
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.
Excerpt from MaxEBFM results:
Another example is Acceleration/Pace (both are good) and Agility (bad). I tried to beat the system by using a good and a bad coach but that doesn't work either. Anticipation/Decision is trained by the same coach and Acceleration/Pace/Agility is trained by the same coach too.
Another problem is that we don't know all good attributes. Stamina e.g. is bad according to fm-arena test results but good according to ykykyk.
Just as a reminder, the fact that one attribute did not get impressive results in the table of FM-Arena does not mean that attribute is useless. For example, stamina might be impactful only for two or three players, like DM and WBs, which represents less than 30% of the team. In that case, even if Stamina is as impactful as Pace and Acceleration for those positions, it will still give worse results than attributes that have impact across all roles.
Changes
This is a rewrite of my previous analysis. Things have changed since the last time, like a new leader , Katana 4231 104p v3.1, I also am using more weights based on the @ZaZ's under 50 minus 25 weights from the linked post. I adjusted some weights to fit first the tactic and some of my personal tastes. You can find it here. I came up with the best training sessions based on these weights. I also attached pictures for ease of understanding!
Physical Training Results
As you can see, Physical is still the best as per EBFM's findings, but for DM and DL they responded better to Resistance training. The other two trainings sadly are far below the standards of Physical and Resistance. You can find the condensed and actually presentable spreadsheet here. All training data is gathered from EBFM's excel file here and his video that is from his excellent series of experiments here.
Conclusion
So it looks like having a ratio of 2 Physical to 1 Resistance is the way to go. When I create my schedule 3 of the 18 sessions will include those sessions like so.
I will do more analysis on this later some time.
It is a bit funny to call it "training" when players just lay in a hammock all week waiting for next match.
There is no such thing as a minimum, it is all about which players are willing to join your team, and that is mostly defined by your reputation and budget. What I would say is to not get a slow player, so if player with 14 pace and acceleration are willing to join your team, then you should never hire someone with 8 or 9. However, it is ok to go a bit below the "minimum" if it is a player with potential of growth, for example.
Do you have any advice so that I can have another player in a middle, it doesn't have to be DLP?
You can try this tactic. It is very good, and uses two central midfielders.
Fatigue still affects performance when it reaches the "Rst" icon level, so rotating is still needed. Condition also has effect on performance, so if you have two similar players, one at 100% and another at 90% condition, then the 100% will perform better.
Would that be good?
And can you post a downloadable training sheet?
Thank you
DLP would reduce performance, but you can do it if you prefer.
About the training sheet, I don't have FM22 installed anymore. What I am currently using is the one below, for FM24.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
After some more testing, I believe the effect of fatigue on performance was just statistical noise. Sorry if anyone was mislead by that. I am still doing more tests to confirm other things with fatigue.
Can I just say, totally off topic, that this post is in the top half a dozen viewed posts of all time on FM Arena with over 130k views, and the highest of any non tactic post on the site. So clearly a subject that is important to the FM Community.
Out of interest, the top 2 by a massive margin, are both from the great @ZaZ with ZaZ Blue 4.0 in FM22 tactics with over 630k views, and ZaZ Blue 3.0 in FM21 tactics with just under 580K views. In third is Phoenix v5.0 in FM21 tactics with over 230k views.
That is actually nice to know! That means people need you for positional filters in FM24.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Unfortunately, there is no tactic that wins every time, unless the match engine is heavily biased towards some set of roles and instructions.
Thanks! It was almost a year ago, and she is fully recovered.
About the tactic, it is good, but there are better ones in the table.
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
You guys are never happy
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.