fm arena user said: Im searching for those atributes for each position as per Zaz guide and have great succes acros all my saves, nice and simple. Expand
Just to be clear, I just reposted that guide. Someone else from China did all the work.
I consider the tweaked versions superior to the original, even though they might be technically tied in the margin of error of tests. I just think wingers are easier to handle than defensive wingers, since you can set them to ease off tackles if they get a yellow card or if you wanna rest. The tweaks also seem to have a better goal difference due to superior defense, which is always a plus.
I remember we did some tests trying to figure out what factors(except the attributes) make players to develop faster and we found the following factors had the most influence:
- The intensity of the training. The higher intensity, the higher development rate. - The quality of the training facility. - The quality of the coaches. - The amount of competitive matches a player participates during a season. - The quality of competitive matches. - The ratings a player gets in matches.
Different training schedules didn't have any significant influences on the development rate, they just were responsible for the distribution of points between the attributes. Expand
You guys could make that info easily available somewhere! So many cool things you tested, but since there is no pinned post in the forums, we just don't see it!
I'm trying to identify what is causing the improvement in quality, if it's the CD instead of BPD, the removal of Play Out of Defense, the tweaked set pieces or the different roles/positions. Once I get some hint, I'll see if it can be improved further, but I like that it's getting even more solid defensively. Good job to everyone!
Mark said: A recap, I am doing this to determine which schedule provides the most improvement in the players. All players are under 21, not in the current Main Squad and are listed as having the most improvement ie difference between CA and PA.
I ended up excluding Man City players as their results were the only ones jumping around a bit.
So 154 players, 5 tests for each of the 7 schedules plus the default AM selected one all over 5 tests. The equivalent of around 6000 player seasons. I put the individual training on the 7 schedules to playing position and role. On the default/base schedule I left it to the AM who went with their preferred position.
I looked at the results in 2 ways, firstly against overall CA improvement and the second against the improvement in the position played and trained against. I decided the latter was more reflective of what I would be looking for. If there is a lot of interest I will share the other version, but to be honest there isn't a lot between them.
Observations
The 2 things impacting the most appear to be the number of games and the higher the level the games the better. For example, where players had no or very limited game time their improvement averaged going from 56.1% CA to 57.8% CA or 1.7% CA in a season.
Those in the U18 team playing a full season improved slightly better, the increase being 3% for the season.
The big gains were for those who played the full season in the Main Team averaging a 5.2% gain in CA over the season. And those that were active in both squads and playing upward of 50 games, did even better averaging 6.1% increase in CA.
So there is a lot to be said for playing your potential stars in the main side for as long as possible during the season.
In terms of the schedules tested, the results seemed to run pretty consistently across the tests. The best 2 schedules were pretty much the best across all categories, with a gap back to 3rd and then a bigger gap to the rest.
Passion4FM appears to be our winner, from RDF and then MDW. All the 7 I was interested in beat leaving the training to your AM, so I think there is benefit in picking one of these schedules and using it or even mixing it up a bit.
I am going to relook at the best 3 and try and improve on these results. I will share any improved training schedule when I am confident I can beat the current front runner. I am also going to look at the impact of different Individual Focus training on these top 3 schedules.
My next testing will be to go back to the League of Nations test League and look at the performance side of using the schedules. Once again using the ZaZ Blue DM tactic on sides that are all basically 160 CA across the board. This time I can tackle the 7 tactics in a single test and compare. I will run 5 tests again after setting the baseline. Let me know your thoughts Expand
I'm actually surprised my training schedule was better than base considering it's not focused in gaining attributes, but in improving your team performance for the current season. If it's not too much to ask, can you dismember the training schedules in categories, saying how many of each sessions it has per week? That way we could try to see some pattern for what training session seems to be more efficient in improving attributes.
Also, if it's not much to ask, can you compare the gains in pace and acceleration of the tactics? My training schedule has heavy focus on those two attributes, so if it gains as much as other tactics in quickness, that would still be good enough to me.
DoubleR said: Maybe I am dumb but what do all the "top" tactics score a 5.4 specifically ? Why not one with a 5.5. and other with 5.6 etc. What causes that 5.4 number? What is it based on? What does a tactic need to do to score higher than that 5.4? Expand
A tactic that achieves 100% of possible points is considered 10 score. If it achieves 54% of the points possible, it scores 5.4. It's that simple.
With @lulustucru07 Norwich result and this Arsenal result we can start to compare to some of @ZaZ tactics from this image
ZaZ Blue DM Arsenal - 81pts 59GD Norwich - 61pts 12GD
ZaZ White Arsenal - 93pts 61GD Norwich - 56pts 13GD
Indigo Arsenal - 89pts 68GD Norwich - 67pts 24GD
Will require more testing runs to get a more accurate result but looks promising so far. Expand
Those results are from my custom league, which is England only and all players have maximum consistency, important matches, natural fitness and minimum injury proneness. Can't compare that with other leagues. (You can get the save or editor data on the first post of Blue.)
Funny thing is that i set my asistant manager all stats to 20 to cause less bad results. During the match i was using his team talks. I am not using any shouts tho. Any suggestions which to use and when? Expand
Encourage is usually good when not winning. When winning, pressure off is good against bigger teams, and praise always works when winning by two or more goals. Other than that, it depends on your player hidden attributes.
Verdilo said: I dont get it. I am using this tactic and in the champions league final. My Barcelona is playing against Manchester United. I cant beat them so i tested something. I went on vacation and simulated this final 16 times, Barca won 10:6 overall. It was strange because without simulation i played 5 matches and never won. Its like United is immortal, they always smashing me every single time. What is causing this? Any ideas? Expand
Don't take it in a bad way, but if your assistant manager is doing better than you, then there is something you need to improve in your match day. Maybe you are doing bad team talks, maybe you are not doing good shouts, or maybe you are not subbing the tired players when needed. Not sure what it is, but a player should always perform better than assistant manager in holiday.
Could only play a couple of matches today. Season started well, despite the elimination from Carabao Cup in the very first match (it's actually a given, I don't like that competition). Since I expect this championship to be harder, I'm putting more effort at keeping morale high, by praising/warning them every week for training, as well as previous match and form every five matches. I added a picture of wage expenditure from my league, and you can see top team spends almost 100m per year while I barely spend 2m.
For changes in the squad, I had to hire a new striker due to a long injury in one of my players (10 months long). I also got problems in the left midfield since both players are currently injuried for 4-8 weeks, and one of my DM is also out for 10 weeks.
Other than that, I started renewing contracts with players that have ability to play on the Premier League next year. There are several players whining about contract, asking to increase their annual wage from ~20k to almost 500k, but I'm managing to postpone that with simple talking. I'll check my options next transfer window to see which can be substituted for cheaper players of similar quality, then renew the ones that deserve to stay.
P.S.: The run is on hold since I'm doing some tests for set pieces.
But it's you who did the main work and I just tweaked it a bit. Expand
I tried something like that (first version) and results were pretty similar (but slightly worse), so I abandoned that route. That's why it's good to have people tweaking, so they explore those paths that we thought weren't much good.
nijak05 said: @ZaZ i already have 2 other tactics but started using blue dm so could you tell me what changes to when I want to ease of the intensity and just keep the lead (ie maybe the changes you made for the light and solid blue tac) Expand
Check Light Blue and Solid Blue. There is a short description of them at the first post. You can apply the changes without training the tactic.
pixar said: Bro, would you consider giving clearer suggestions for player traits in your spare time? For all positions. Expand
I prefer not to say anything because I never did an experiment to see what traits are better for each position. Anything I say would be just a personal opinion that could very well be wrong and mislead lots of players. What I know for sure is that traits that enforce the player instructions are good and traits that contradict those instructions are bad.
Also that other about preferred foot, since people ask about that every other day.
Just to be clear, I just reposted that guide. Someone else from China did all the work.
I remember we did some tests trying to figure out what factors(except the attributes) make players to develop faster and we found the following factors had the most influence:
- The intensity of the training. The higher intensity, the higher development rate.
- The quality of the training facility.
- The quality of the coaches.
- The amount of competitive matches a player participates during a season.
- The quality of competitive matches.
- The ratings a player gets in matches.
Different training schedules didn't have any significant influences on the development rate, they just were responsible for the distribution of points between the attributes.
You guys could make that info easily available somewhere! So many cool things you tested, but since there is no pinned post in the forums, we just don't see it!
I'm trying to identify what is causing the improvement in quality, if it's the CD instead of BPD, the removal of Play Out of Defense, the tweaked set pieces or the different roles/positions. Once I get some hint, I'll see if it can be improved further, but I like that it's getting even more solid defensively. Good job to everyone!
I ended up excluding Man City players as their results were the only ones jumping around a bit.
So 154 players, 5 tests for each of the 7 schedules plus the default AM selected one all over 5 tests. The equivalent of around 6000 player seasons. I put the individual training on the 7 schedules to playing position and role. On the default/base schedule I left it to the AM who went with their preferred position.
I looked at the results in 2 ways, firstly against overall CA improvement and the second against the improvement in the position played and trained against. I decided the latter was more reflective of what I would be looking for. If there is a lot of interest I will share the other version, but to be honest there isn't a lot between them.
Observations
The 2 things impacting the most appear to be the number of games and the higher the level the games the better. For example, where players had no or very limited game time their improvement averaged going from 56.1% CA to 57.8% CA or 1.7% CA in a season.
Those in the U18 team playing a full season improved slightly better, the increase being 3% for the season.
The big gains were for those who played the full season in the Main Team averaging a 5.2% gain in CA over the season. And those that were active in both squads and playing upward of 50 games, did even better averaging 6.1% increase in CA.
So there is a lot to be said for playing your potential stars in the main side for as long as possible during the season.
In terms of the schedules tested, the results seemed to run pretty consistently across the tests. The best 2 schedules were pretty much the best across all categories, with a gap back to 3rd and then a bigger gap to the rest.
Passion4FM appears to be our winner, from RDF and then MDW. All the 7 I was interested in beat leaving the training to your AM, so I think there is benefit in picking one of these schedules and using it or even mixing it up a bit.
I am going to relook at the best 3 and try and improve on these results. I will share any improved training schedule when I am confident I can beat the current front runner. I am also going to look at the impact of different Individual Focus training on these top 3 schedules.
My next testing will be to go back to the League of Nations test League and look at the performance side of using the schedules. Once again using the ZaZ Blue DM tactic on sides that are all basically 160 CA across the board. This time I can tackle the 7 tactics in a single test and compare. I will run 5 tests again after setting the baseline. Let me know your thoughts
I'm actually surprised my training schedule was better than base considering it's not focused in gaining attributes, but in improving your team performance for the current season. If it's not too much to ask, can you dismember the training schedules in categories, saying how many of each sessions it has per week? That way we could try to see some pattern for what training session seems to be more efficient in improving attributes.
Also, if it's not much to ask, can you compare the gains in pace and acceleration of the tactics? My training schedule has heavy focus on those two attributes, so if it gains as much as other tactics in quickness, that would still be good enough to me.
It gets complicated when the top tactic is a tweak of a tweak of a tweak of another tactic.
A tactic that achieves 100% of possible points is considered 10 score. If it achieves 54% of the points possible, it scores 5.4. It's that simple.
With @lulustucru07 Norwich result and this Arsenal result we can start to compare to some of @ZaZ tactics from this image
ZaZ Blue DM
Arsenal - 81pts 59GD
Norwich - 61pts 12GD
ZaZ White
Arsenal - 93pts 61GD
Norwich - 56pts 13GD
Indigo
Arsenal - 89pts 68GD
Norwich - 67pts 24GD
Will require more testing runs to get a more accurate result but looks promising so far.
Those results are from my custom league, which is England only and all players have maximum consistency, important matches, natural fitness and minimum injury proneness. Can't compare that with other leagues. (You can get the save or editor data on the first post of Blue.)
First post of tactic source.
Funny thing is that i set my asistant manager all stats to 20 to cause less bad results. During the match i was using his team talks. I am not using any shouts tho. Any suggestions which to use and when?
Encourage is usually good when not winning. When winning, pressure off is good against bigger teams, and praise always works when winning by two or more goals. Other than that, it depends on your player hidden attributes.
Don't take it in a bad way, but if your assistant manager is doing better than you, then there is something you need to improve in your match day. Maybe you are doing bad team talks, maybe you are not doing good shouts, or maybe you are not subbing the tired players when needed. Not sure what it is, but a player should always perform better than assistant manager in holiday.
For changes in the squad, I had to hire a new striker due to a long injury in one of my players (10 months long). I also got problems in the left midfield since both players are currently injuried for 4-8 weeks, and one of my DM is also out for 10 weeks.
Other than that, I started renewing contracts with players that have ability to play on the Premier League next year. There are several players whining about contract, asking to increase their annual wage from ~20k to almost 500k, but I'm managing to postpone that with simple talking. I'll check my options next transfer window to see which can be substituted for cheaper players of similar quality, then renew the ones that deserve to stay.
P.S.: The run is on hold since I'm doing some tests for set pieces.
But it's you who did the main work and I just tweaked it a bit.
I tried something like that (first version) and results were pretty similar (but slightly worse), so I abandoned that route. That's why it's good to have people tweaking, so they explore those paths that we thought weren't much good.
What individual player training do you use when players are Natural at their position, sake of argument ML & MR, IWB and RPM
TIA
Jates
Quickness, training their roles.
Check Light Blue and Solid Blue. There is a short description of them at the first post. You can apply the changes without training the tactic.
I prefer not to say anything because I never did an experiment to see what traits are better for each position. Anything I say would be just a personal opinion that could very well be wrong and mislead lots of players. What I know for sure is that traits that enforce the player instructions are good and traits that contradict those instructions are bad.