nijak05 said: @ZaZ will you be updating this one for the new patch? Expand
Maybe. I'm currently improving set pieces, then I'll go back to formations. It's just that there are too many different variables to test for set pieces, and most of them have an impact hard to measure.
Filer974 said: ok, that's fine, I don't want to bother you with all that. The only thing I'm saying is that this tactic is worth more than 53 points. I never competed with Zaz, most of my tactics are inspired by his tactics Expand
I don't want to be mean, I just think you need to accept that your tactic didn't perform as well as you thought in the conditions of FM-Arena's test. The tests are made exactly for that, so people evaluate tactics based on statistics instead of personal feelings. It doesn't mean your tactic is bad, it could very well be the best under other conditions like the one you are testing. For example, results from Knap tests are different from FM-Arena and FM-Base, because each one has a different methodology.
Filer974 said: I agree with you, I never said that I had created the ultimate tactic but I am convinced that this tactic is worth more than my previous tactics. I am convinced that this tactic is worth more than 53... It is not possible otherwise. Try it with the team you want and tell me what you think Expand
They just tried six times, that's why it got 53 points.
Filer974 said: Thank you so much for trying this tactic that doesn't work... 53 Expand
You are racting too badly for a 53 score. It's not a bad score at all, it's enough to overachieve with most teams. We understand you expected it to score 999 pts, but unfortunately it didn't. The fact that your tests got a different result than here just shows that your methodology and the one from this website are different, nothing else. Showing a bunch of tests and complaining of the results won't change the score.
Mark said: I will test it against using Quickness for all at some point. Expand
It's not needed. It's only in the lower leagues that you use players without reaching full potential, but in most top leagues they reach it after a couple of seasons.
Zippo said: We've tested a left footed player as the right winger and a right footed player as the left winger in this tactic and there wasn't any significant difference so I guess you can safely play Salah on the right and Mane on the left. Expand
Guidito said: @ZaZ mate how would you organize the 4 attacking players in this tactic having the following: Mbappe, Dybala, Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota.
My main struggle is whether Salah or Mbappe should go to the wings and whom should be AF. Expand
There are probably better people than me to answer this question, but I would use Salah on the left wing, Mbappe on the center and Mané on the right, with Dybala playing behind. Firmino is good but too slow, and Jota is fast but not that good.
Poacher said: I think the idea behind Mark individual training is for example, if 1 point of Acceleration costs 5CA and give 5% performance boot and 1 point of Anticipation costs 2CA and give 3% performance boost and 1 point of Stamina costs 2CA and 3% performance boost so it comes out that it's more effective to train Anticipation and Stamina instead of Acceleration because for 4CA you get 6% performance boost. Expand
Yeah, I understand that. But that only makes a difference if we reach the top of PA, else it's not very important. Gaining 1 in pace and 1 in acceleration is better for performance than gaining 1 in stamina and 1 in anticipation. The difference is that you will reach PA faster, meaning you stop to grow, while gaining stamina and anticipation will still leave space for growth.
Mark said: I have followed the advice provided in their final few paragraphs on training
"For guidance on training, the attributes take up CA, so in order to train the players with the highest tactical true CA, we can train the attributes with the highest cost effectiveness The cost effectiveness of each attribute for each position can be measured by the attribute Tactical True CA Weight / Attribute CA Weight, the higher the value, the higher the attribute will make the player's attribute Tactical True CA higher if it increases the same CA."
If you look at the attribute values by position and attributes covered by each Individual Focus training item you come up with my table above. Expand
Just to be clear, that methodology only holds for players that hit the ceiling of PA. If you don't expect a player to reach all his potential, be it because your training facilities are poor or because your club sells players for good offers, then attribute weight is pointless. However, good players are usually expected to reach peak at your club.
Nikko said: Shadow Striker isn't a pure striker, he plays at AMC position and contributes a lot to the defense so I guess having good work rate and decent defensive attributes will be beneficent. Expand
I agree. A tactic with two advanced forwards usually concedes more than the same tactic with an advanced forward and a shadow striker. Anyone can just check the table to confirm that.
Mark said: Well we have the results in for the Training Schedule performance tests. I had to change from the original plan as the League of Nations testing environment doesn't allow for training. I went back to the ZaZ EPL environment and once again healed all players at the start of each run. I ran 7 tests with each schedule cycling through each of the 7 teams. As each only has one run with each schedule it is open to impact by injury or send offs so there is a fair margin of error in this test.
The winner this time, but in a photo finish, was ZaZ. Just finishing on top from Passion 4 FM and the other 2 top ones from the development testing. Given the previous testing was a bit more thorough I think I would be weighting preferences towards the previous winners, however as ZaZ has pointed out, his training is targeted towards winning games not player development.
For me, overall I think I will run with Passion 4 FM as it appears to be very close to the top on both counts, and as I said before I will try and improve on it. More to come.
Expand
My schedule was designed to bring the best performance for the current season, so if it was losing to other training schedules focused on player development there would be no point using it at all. It makes me kinda happy to know it's at least serving its purpose, because I used it without having ever tested to see if it actually makes any difference.
Anyway, Passion 4 FM schedule seems pretty close in points and development, so it's probably superior and I should check later if anything from there can be used to improve my schedule.
Going a bit off topic, I'm currently testing set pieces and found some good improvement so far. I still have a lot to do specially on defending IFK.
Tejash said: @Snoop@ZaZ Just wanted some advise from you guys for the SS and AF position how would you fit Haaland and Mbappe as Ive got both in my squad. Many thanks! Expand
If you have those two, you can even use one in the goal and still win everything. Jokes aside, I would use Mbappé as AF and Haaland as SS, because I think Mbappé is faster and more selfish, while Haaland usually does better at passing and pressing. However, going the other way around will also work very well, since Haaland is taller and stronger. You seriously can't go wrong with those two, but if it was me, I would actually use Mbappé in the right wing instead.
Penaldo said: With the genie scout ratings once we have loaded them and it's calculated the ratings do we just search by the positions that the tactic uses or do we search using the current ratings Expand
FM Genie Scout gives score for current rating and potential rating. It's up to you to decide how you use that info to hire players, since each person has a different policy for hiring.
fm arena user said: Im searching for those atributes for each position as per Zaz guide and have great succes acros all my saves, nice and simple. Expand
Just to be clear, I just reposted that guide. Someone else from China did all the work.
I consider the tweaked versions superior to the original, even though they might be technically tied in the margin of error of tests. I just think wingers are easier to handle than defensive wingers, since you can set them to ease off tackles if they get a yellow card or if you wanna rest. The tweaks also seem to have a better goal difference due to superior defense, which is always a plus.
I remember we did some tests trying to figure out what factors(except the attributes) make players to develop faster and we found the following factors had the most influence:
- The intensity of the training. The higher intensity, the higher development rate. - The quality of the training facility. - The quality of the coaches. - The amount of competitive matches a player participates during a season. - The quality of competitive matches. - The ratings a player gets in matches.
Different training schedules didn't have any significant influences on the development rate, they just were responsible for the distribution of points between the attributes. Expand
You guys could make that info easily available somewhere! So many cool things you tested, but since there is no pinned post in the forums, we just don't see it!
I'm trying to identify what is causing the improvement in quality, if it's the CD instead of BPD, the removal of Play Out of Defense, the tweaked set pieces or the different roles/positions. Once I get some hint, I'll see if it can be improved further, but I like that it's getting even more solid defensively. Good job to everyone!
Maybe. I'm currently improving set pieces, then I'll go back to formations. It's just that there are too many different variables to test for set pieces, and most of them have an impact hard to measure.
I don't want to be mean, I just think you need to accept that your tactic didn't perform as well as you thought in the conditions of FM-Arena's test. The tests are made exactly for that, so people evaluate tactics based on statistics instead of personal feelings. It doesn't mean your tactic is bad, it could very well be the best under other conditions like the one you are testing. For example, results from Knap tests are different from FM-Arena and FM-Base, because each one has a different methodology.
They just tried six times, that's why it got 53 points.
You are racting too badly for a 53 score. It's not a bad score at all, it's enough to overachieve with most teams. We understand you expected it to score 999 pts, but unfortunately it didn't. The fact that your tests got a different result than here just shows that your methodology and the one from this website are different, nothing else. Showing a bunch of tests and complaining of the results won't change the score.
It's not needed. It's only in the lower leagues that you use players without reaching full potential, but in most top leagues they reach it after a couple of seasons.
Good info!
Mbappe, Dybala, Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota.
My main struggle is whether Salah or Mbappe should go to the wings and whom should be AF.
There are probably better people than me to answer this question, but I would use Salah on the left wing, Mbappe on the center and Mané on the right, with Dybala playing behind. Firmino is good but too slow, and Jota is fast but not that good.
Yeah, I understand that. But that only makes a difference if we reach the top of PA, else it's not very important. Gaining 1 in pace and 1 in acceleration is better for performance than gaining 1 in stamina and 1 in anticipation. The difference is that you will reach PA faster, meaning you stop to grow, while gaining stamina and anticipation will still leave space for growth.
"For guidance on training, the attributes take up CA, so in order to train the players with the highest tactical true CA, we can train the attributes with the highest cost effectiveness
The cost effectiveness of each attribute for each position can be measured by the attribute Tactical True CA Weight / Attribute CA Weight, the higher the value, the higher the attribute will make the player's attribute Tactical True CA higher if it increases the same CA."
If you look at the attribute values by position and attributes covered by each Individual Focus training item you come up with my table above.
Just to be clear, that methodology only holds for players that hit the ceiling of PA. If you don't expect a player to reach all his potential, be it because your training facilities are poor or because your club sells players for good offers, then attribute weight is pointless. However, good players are usually expected to reach peak at your club.
I agree. A tactic with two advanced forwards usually concedes more than the same tactic with an advanced forward and a shadow striker. Anyone can just check the table to confirm that.
The winner this time, but in a photo finish, was ZaZ. Just finishing on top from Passion 4 FM and the other 2 top ones from the development testing. Given the previous testing was a bit more thorough I think I would be weighting preferences towards the previous winners, however as ZaZ has pointed out, his training is targeted towards winning games not player development.
For me, overall I think I will run with Passion 4 FM as it appears to be very close to the top on both counts, and as I said before I will try and improve on it. More to come.
My schedule was designed to bring the best performance for the current season, so if it was losing to other training schedules focused on player development there would be no point using it at all. It makes me kinda happy to know it's at least serving its purpose, because I used it without having ever tested to see if it actually makes any difference.
Anyway, Passion 4 FM schedule seems pretty close in points and development, so it's probably superior and I should check later if anything from there can be used to improve my schedule.
Going a bit off topic, I'm currently testing set pieces and found some good improvement so far. I still have a lot to do specially on defending IFK.
If you have those two, you can even use one in the goal and still win everything. Jokes aside, I would use Mbappé as AF and Haaland as SS, because I think Mbappé is faster and more selfish, while Haaland usually does better at passing and pressing. However, going the other way around will also work very well, since Haaland is taller and stronger. You seriously can't go wrong with those two, but if it was me, I would actually use Mbappé in the right wing instead.
FM Genie Scout gives score for current rating and potential rating. It's up to you to decide how you use that info to hire players, since each person has a different policy for hiring.
https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/11368/
Also that other about preferred foot, since people ask about that every other day.
Just to be clear, I just reposted that guide. Someone else from China did all the work.
I remember we did some tests trying to figure out what factors(except the attributes) make players to develop faster and we found the following factors had the most influence:
- The intensity of the training. The higher intensity, the higher development rate.
- The quality of the training facility.
- The quality of the coaches.
- The amount of competitive matches a player participates during a season.
- The quality of competitive matches.
- The ratings a player gets in matches.
Different training schedules didn't have any significant influences on the development rate, they just were responsible for the distribution of points between the attributes.
You guys could make that info easily available somewhere! So many cool things you tested, but since there is no pinned post in the forums, we just don't see it!
I'm trying to identify what is causing the improvement in quality, if it's the CD instead of BPD, the removal of Play Out of Defense, the tweaked set pieces or the different roles/positions. Once I get some hint, I'll see if it can be improved further, but I like that it's getting even more solid defensively. Good job to everyone!