Prysiu said: Hi, I wonder if you - after almost a year - found anything interesting, changed approach, have new insights for us all. Do you still use MDW24 rating file? Do you still play FM with the same passion? Expand
I played out that save until 2030. Moved to Millwall, and then Spurs, after the last post following approaches from those clubs. Stopped December last year when it was apparent that FM25 wasn't coming out. Decided to start an English pyramid save. Went with Didcot just to fill in time.
I followed the FM Arena forums. Some interesting ideas during the last few months.
Do I still use the MDW24 rating file? Yes
Do I still play with the same passion? Hell yeah.
I went back through much of the stuff we have been reading about training and best attributes for players by role.
I am using the training suggestions even though we are only a part time club. After moving up to VNS and then getting promoted to VNL, I found that the part time status and wage restrictions meant I was struggling to get any decent players to join. I then looked at a simple rating system for lower leagues using key attributes for each position and have used this to buy players and to rate opposition. I now study the weaknesses of oppositions based on this rating, scouting and tactics that work against the normal tactic the opposition usually uses. I adapt my tactics based on these factors. After 10 games we are on 21 points running second. I generally target 2 points per game so happy with that given we are favourites to be demoted.
I have managed to spend a lot of time thinking about how to get information on FM25 when it comes out, hopefully during beta, so that I can quickly get on top of the next game.
Lets see what happens. At present I will just continue to play this game and see if I can get to managing an EPL side by the time they release FM25. A bit time poor, so it is a slow process.
AlexH said: So I tried a thing. It may be working. In an attempt to construct a roster optimized to the attribute testing results, I did the following (please note, I’ll be using terms like “per player” or “per match” or “per year” - these are more terms of convenience than a literal expectation, more on that later):
1) Took the Goal Diff for each attribute (positive and negative) and divided it by 12 to get Goal Diff per point of attribute - 12 comes from the difference between the “8” and the “20” used in the testing itself. - Acceleration had a Positive or Offensive Goal Diff of 49 going from 8 to 12, so each “point” is worth 4.08 2) Divided that by 380 (10 players, 38 matches) to arrive at per point, per match, per player. - Result is a number (for acceleration and offensive positions, the number was .0107).
I decided to use this number to compare players based on attributes as another “weighting” exercise. While it allows one to compare two players, after experimentation, it was easier for me to consume and compare when against an “average” - I decided to use a player with “12” as that average player.
So now I can compare the aggregate player attributes for (only) those attributes with clear, demonstrable impact in the attribute testing simulations (acceleration, pace, dribbling, anticipation, Jumping Reach, etc.) and create something closer to baseballs “Wins Above Replacement” using a player with all 12s in the attributes that matter.
For any one player explaining in terms of a spreadsheet -
The player is a row, the attributes are columns.
The cells at the intersection are the player’s attribute # from FM24.
There is another column that is a sum of each attribute multiplied against the attribute contribute (per point, per match, per player) in #2 above - I call this # Goals per Match (or Goals Prevented per Match for defense).
I multiply that # by 38 to get the aggregate Goals per Season.
I then subtract Goals Per Season for the player from the Goals Per Season for an “all 12” player to get my “Goals Above Replacement” (GAR) for Attacking Midfielders and Attackers/Strikers - or goals prevented (GPAR) for DL/DR/DC. I took the a similar approach for GK.
For DM - I compiled both the DMs GAR and their GPAR multiplied by -1 to create an aggregate positive number of Goal Contributions Above Replacement (a goal saved is a goal earned).
Ya Boi Eren Dinkci, in my save at age 25, is 3.4 Goals per year greater than a player with all 12s. Even with the haircut.
My man Phil Neumann, in my save at age 30, is 03.75 Goals Prevented per year greater than a player with all 12s.
Bradley Ibrahim as a 23 year old DM in my save is about 5.2 GCAR.
Some observations -
1) These numbers don’t include the impact of the formation (obviously). I’ve been using a meta 424 in the 3 saves I’ve been experimenting with this effort - it would be interesting to see what an “all 12s” 424 team produces and somehow compensate for that (not sure how).
2) I combined this in my XLS (I play on iPad so I my experience is console-ish) against my old ykykyk weights - there are differences in quality (Lucas Bretelle as a DM, for example, tends to have high ykykykyk based weights in my saves - surprised at how “meh” he scored in GCAR.
3) Totally helps financially. I was comparing a player named Connor Bradley for DR against one named Pierre Nadjombe. Similar scores, but the cost per GPAR was crazy in favor of Nadjombe. Even though Connor does seem to have better overall attribute numbers - many of them just don’t matter.
4) I don’t believe at all that if Dango Ouattara is a 27 goal per 38 matches player. I’m sure in some distribution of outcomes, he could be - but that number is useful because I can peg it against an all 12 (23.3 per 38). The labels I use and numbers shouldn’t be thought of as literal expectations.
5) In terms of lineup construction, it really helps to compare lineup A vs. lineup B vs. lineup C (etc.) when planning / scheduling tournaments vs. league play and creating depth.
6) Similar roster construction benefits and lineup comparison benefits when players could be multiple roles. Both Dinkci (AMR/STC) and Neumann (DR/DC) mentioned above qualify at different positions and have (albeit subtly) different GAR/GPAR scores for the positions. But over 38 matches, I’d like to believe that .3 GAR would be a difference that justifies Dinkci at AMR vs. STC.
Anyhow, happy to share more if anyone cares. It’s a fun hobby. Expand
What are the attributes you are using for GAR and GPAR calculations?
Trololo said: Can someone help me understand how to import the list of players into the excel file...? or is there a youtube tutorial for this ?
I downloaded the Excel file, and the 4 views, I go to FM, Squad tab of my team because I would like to analyze my squad first. I import the "Meta Own Team" view into FM, I select all the players and do CTRL P and text file.
This is the view I have in the IMPORT tab and I have nothing in CALCULATION, am I doing something wrong ? Expand
For Importing select Data from Text, Select All file types, Select the File, Use "|" as qualifier. Should them align all the fields to columns. Hope this makes sense
crazyfmguy93 said: @Mark you did not change any attribute rate, only change for some weight for position from MDW22. is that right? Expand
Thats correct. MDW22 were educated guesses based on rating results for best players that year. MDW24 used ratings for players with 15 for all attributes.
Zippo said: Methodology We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
*Physical* Pace: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Strength: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Balance: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Jumping Reach: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Natural Fitness: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Stamina: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Mental* Anticipation: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result ("Points" +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Aggression:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Decisions:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Composure:Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Technical* Corners: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Crossing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Dribbling: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Finishing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
First Touch: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Free Kick Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Heading: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Shots: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Marking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Passing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Technique: The attribute hasn't been tested yet. Expand
I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL DC DM AMRL AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request.
[Rest]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness] or [Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
Explanation: "Recovery" is actually a variant of rest. If there is any other training, "rest" will be invalid, but "recovery" will not, "recovery" is counted as a training, so it can be used as a "weight" to pull the weight of "Pace" and "Acc" and so on to make it closer to the "rest" CA distribution, so the following 7 x recovery are added. It is used to pull the weight of the CA assigned to the Physical stats to pull up (The disadvantage of recovery is that it slightly increases the weight of a less useful physical attribute, such as strength, but this disadvantage can be ignored)
2.Increase moderate levels of CA , as fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
[Quickness]+[Attacking Shadow Play]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness] or [Quickness]+[Attacking Direct]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
3. Add as much CA as possible , while fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
Rhumble said: IM giving this a go ,, If they score, it says be more Expansive , should that be more Expressive ? if not what do you mean by more expansive ? Expand
Yarema said: Speaking of which. I haven't gone through every single routine in here so maybe it's included somewhere. Has Workthespace world cup corner routine been tested? Everyone seems to be using it lately Expand
Sorry guys but I don't have the database anymore. Was preparing for FM25 so cleaned up a fair bit of stuff.
Waccoe said: Quick question can i upload a tactic to the forum for testing that is not mine. I have asked the author on another site if i can share it and he said go ahead no worries. Expand
no problems. You just need to say it isn't yours and name the author
sa said: I need to try out this tactic, terrorist anti-football is something I've been looking for for ages now. Only 42 goals conceded in 400 games? That's 1.05 goals conceded per 10 games, awesome tactic for defending a lead.
Edit: nah, just tried using it with Arsenal we're conceding every game especially against teams like Burnley and Luton. Only a couple draws. Bit disappointing, expected more from this. Expand
The results are given as an average for 38 games. The 400 games is how many it was tested over. So the 42 conceded works out to be 1.1 goals per match.
I played out that save until 2030. Moved to Millwall, and then Spurs, after the last post following approaches from those clubs. Stopped December last year when it was apparent that FM25 wasn't coming out. Decided to start an English pyramid save. Went with Didcot just to fill in time.
I followed the FM Arena forums. Some interesting ideas during the last few months.
Do I still use the MDW24 rating file? Yes
Do I still play with the same passion? Hell yeah.
I went back through much of the stuff we have been reading about training and best attributes for players by role.
I am using the training suggestions even though we are only a part time club. After moving up to VNS and then getting promoted to VNL, I found that the part time status and wage restrictions meant I was struggling to get any decent players to join. I then looked at a simple rating system for lower leagues using key attributes for each position and have used this to buy players and to rate opposition. I now study the weaknesses of oppositions based on this rating, scouting and tactics that work against the normal tactic the opposition usually uses. I adapt my tactics based on these factors. After 10 games we are on 21 points running second. I generally target 2 points per game so happy with that given we are favourites to be demoted.
I have managed to spend a lot of time thinking about how to get information on FM25 when it comes out, hopefully during beta, so that I can quickly get on top of the next game.
Lets see what happens. At present I will just continue to play this game and see if I can get to managing an EPL side by the time they release FM25. A bit time poor, so it is a slow process.
1) Took the Goal Diff for each attribute (positive and negative) and divided it by 12 to get Goal Diff per point of attribute
- 12 comes from the difference between the “8” and the “20” used in the testing itself.
- Acceleration had a Positive or Offensive Goal Diff of 49 going from 8 to 12, so each “point” is worth 4.08
2) Divided that by 380 (10 players, 38 matches) to arrive at per point, per match, per player.
- Result is a number (for acceleration and offensive positions, the number was .0107).
I decided to use this number to compare players based on attributes as another “weighting” exercise. While it allows one to compare two players, after experimentation, it was easier for me to consume and compare when against an “average” - I decided to use a player with “12” as that average player.
So now I can compare the aggregate player attributes for (only) those attributes with clear, demonstrable impact in the attribute testing simulations (acceleration, pace, dribbling, anticipation, Jumping Reach, etc.) and create something closer to baseballs “Wins Above Replacement” using a player with all 12s in the attributes that matter.
For any one player explaining in terms of a spreadsheet -
The player is a row, the attributes are columns.
The cells at the intersection are the player’s attribute # from FM24.
There is another column that is a sum of each attribute multiplied against the attribute contribute (per point, per match, per player) in #2 above - I call this # Goals per Match (or Goals Prevented per Match for defense).
I multiply that # by 38 to get the aggregate Goals per Season.
I then subtract Goals Per Season for the player from the Goals Per Season for an “all 12” player to get my “Goals Above Replacement” (GAR) for Attacking Midfielders and Attackers/Strikers - or goals prevented (GPAR) for DL/DR/DC. I took the a similar approach for GK.
For DM - I compiled both the DMs GAR and their GPAR multiplied by -1 to create an aggregate positive number of Goal Contributions Above Replacement (a goal saved is a goal earned).
Ya Boi Eren Dinkci, in my save at age 25, is 3.4 Goals per year greater than a player with all 12s. Even with the haircut.
My man Phil Neumann, in my save at age 30, is 03.75 Goals Prevented per year greater than a player with all 12s.
Bradley Ibrahim as a 23 year old DM in my save is about 5.2 GCAR.
Some observations -
1) These numbers don’t include the impact of the formation (obviously). I’ve been using a meta 424 in the 3 saves I’ve been experimenting with this effort - it would be interesting to see what an “all 12s” 424 team produces and somehow compensate for that (not sure how).
2) I combined this in my XLS (I play on iPad so I my experience is console-ish) against my old ykykyk weights - there are differences in quality (Lucas Bretelle as a DM, for example, tends to have high ykykykyk based weights in my saves - surprised at how “meh” he scored in GCAR.
3) Totally helps financially. I was comparing a player named Connor Bradley for DR against one named Pierre Nadjombe. Similar scores, but the cost per GPAR was crazy in favor of Nadjombe. Even though Connor does seem to have better overall attribute numbers - many of them just don’t matter.
4) I don’t believe at all that if Dango Ouattara is a 27 goal per 38 matches player. I’m sure in some distribution of outcomes, he could be - but that number is useful because I can peg it against an all 12 (23.3 per 38). The labels I use and numbers shouldn’t be thought of as literal expectations.
5) In terms of lineup construction, it really helps to compare lineup A vs. lineup B vs. lineup C (etc.) when planning / scheduling tournaments vs. league play and creating depth.
6) Similar roster construction benefits and lineup comparison benefits when players could be multiple roles. Both Dinkci (AMR/STC) and Neumann (DR/DC) mentioned above qualify at different positions and have (albeit subtly) different GAR/GPAR scores for the positions. But over 38 matches, I’d like to believe that .3 GAR would be a difference that justifies Dinkci at AMR vs. STC.
Anyhow, happy to share more if anyone cares. It’s a fun hobby.
What are the attributes you are using for GAR and GPAR calculations?
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=strange%20kinda%20woman%20deep%20purple%20tribute&mid=2D04CB3972F506961E212D04CB3972F506961E21&ajaxhist=0
Loving Strange Kinda Woman
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=strange%20kinda%20woman%20deep%20purple%20tribute&mid=2D04CB3972F506961E212D04CB3972F506961E21&ajaxhist=0
Nice. I saw them live in Sydney many years back and George Harrison came on and played with them duelling with Ritchie Blackmore.
AND EF 424 IF HP P102 AC
Double pivot 42112 high tempo short passing
I am loving the deep purple vibe
or is there a youtube tutorial for this ?
I downloaded the Excel file, and the 4 views, I go to FM, Squad tab of my team because I would like to analyze my squad first.
I import the "Meta Own Team" view into FM, I select all the players and do CTRL P and text file.
This is the view I have in the IMPORT tab and I have nothing in CALCULATION, am I doing something wrong ?
For Importing select Data from Text, Select All file types, Select the File, Use "|" as qualifier. Should them align all the fields to columns. Hope this makes sense
Personal choice. Some people add multiple attacking corner set ups. I cant recall seeing multiples of others.
Thats correct. MDW22 were educated guesses based on rating results for best players that year. MDW24 used ratings for players with 15 for all attributes.
We test each attribute one by one at 2 states, at value "8" and at value "20" then after increasing the value from "8" to "20 we measure the difference for the result.
*Physical*
Pace: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +64) | (Goals For +45) | (Goals Against -59)
Acceleration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +64) | (Goals For +49) | (Goals Against -48)
Strength: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +10) | (Goals For +7) | (Goals Against -5)
Agility: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Balance: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Jumping Reach: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Natural Fitness: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Stamina: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Mental*
Anticipation: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +18) | (Goals For +15) | (Goals Against -10)
Work Rate: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +12) | (Goals For +6) | (Goals Against -10)
Concentration: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +9) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -8)
Determination: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" improves the result
("Points" +6) | (Goals For +4) | (Goals Against -5)
Aggression: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Bravery: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Flair: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Decisions: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Teamwork: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Vision: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Off The Ball: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Positioning: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Composure: Increasing this attribute from "8" to "20" doesn't make any difference for the result.
Leadership: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
*Technical*
Corners: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Crossing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Dribbling: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Finishing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
First Touch: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Free Kick Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Heading: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Shots: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Long Throws: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Marking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Passing: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Penalty Taking: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
Technique: The attribute hasn't been tested yet.
I know this is probably too big an ask, but given all the discussion on the site about the different impact on positions, I wonder if there was any chance to break the attribute tests up into 5 groupings:
DRL
DC
DM
AMRL
AMC/ST
This would have 2 players in each grouping and prove once and for all if the attributes change dramatically by position.
As I have said before, you guys do such a great job for this community and I have enormous respect for your work regardless of whether you are able to accommodate my request.
1.Extreme way to increase Physical class stats
[Rest]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
Explanation:
"Recovery" is actually a variant of rest. If there is any other training, "rest" will be invalid, but "recovery" will not, "recovery" is counted as a training, so it can be used as a "weight" to pull the weight of "Pace" and "Acc" and so on to make it closer to the "rest" CA distribution,
so the following 7 x recovery are added. It is used to pull the weight of the CA assigned to the Physical stats to pull up
(The disadvantage of recovery is that it slightly increases the weight of a less useful physical attribute, such as strength, but this disadvantage can be ignored)
2.Increase moderate levels of CA , as fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
[Quickness]+[Attacking Shadow Play]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Quickness]+[Attacking Direct]+[Recovery]x7+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
3. Add as much CA as possible , while fewer invalid attributes as possible, and as many high value attributes as possible
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
or
[Physical]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
Excel Training English 2
edit 27/12/2024 :
https://pixeldrain.com/u/R3imL2wX
I trend to play lower league and part time teams. Training is only 4 sessions per week. Can i just drop the 7 recovery sessions.
I think it is Expressive as you say
Thank you for all the effort!
Yarema said: Speaking of which. I haven't gone through every single routine in here so maybe it's included somewhere. Has Workthespace world cup corner routine been tested? Everyone seems to be using it lately
Sorry guys but I don't have the database anymore. Was preparing for FM25 so cleaned up a fair bit of stuff.
no problems. You just need to say it isn't yours and name the author
As per the opening post, I have Blue on top but not a lot between the top 6 routines
Edit: nah, just tried using it with Arsenal we're conceding every game especially against teams like Burnley and Luton. Only a couple draws. Bit disappointing, expected more from this.
The results are given as an average for 38 games. The 400 games is how many it was tested over. So the 42 conceded works out to be 1.1 goals per match.
Download the file and put it in the following Directory
C:\FM Genie Scout 24g\Layouts\
Open your FM24 game. Open Genie Scout and Load your FM24 game. Click the GS symbol top left, click Layout and then select the layout file.
GS Layout file