Middleweight165 said: I'm always one FM behind, so have just started on FM23. I read in this thread you flittered between yk balanced ratings and the MDW22. Do you prefer one?
Also I had a quick look at some players using the MDW22. The highest rated player interested in joining me had 9/10 Pace and Acceleration. Would you still sign this player? It didnt sit right with me that I'd sign players with such low speed, as we are always pushing that physicals are the most important, but this might be subjective bias. What are your thoughts? Expand
FM23 I used MDW and trusted the ratings. Seemed to work
dzek said: To be honest, both programs have their good and bad points.
I was stuck with Genie Scout for many years and thought one year I would use FMRTE to see if it would help me better. What I find in GS as its best feature compared to FMRTE is its simplicity. Just this.
You can also import shortlist if I’m not wrong on FMRTE and sort them however you like. Now in terms of attributes weighting I think FMRTE excels for the reason that you can even set weightings for the strong/weak foot (which impacts CA/PA) but in GS is predefined under the hood for each position individually. Also another big help on FMRTE is that you can copy/paste anything within the program to anywhere you want and you dont need to take a screenshot then extract text from image etc.
Btw I’m not working or get any commission on FMRTE project I’m trying to help! Expand
When I previously have tried exporting from FMRTE I could only do 1 player at a time. Has this changed?
Snaipz said: Hey so I saw @AlexH sharing his excel file and I just wanted to share what I have, hopefully it helps someone selecting players for their tactic. All the info I gathered from this site is in there, big thanks to @Mark and @ZaZ probably some others I can't remember.
Thanks for this. It has given me some great ideas for improving my work. I really like the tool to converts the screenshots. Should save me a lot of time. Well done
I have used the top tactic (Deformation by @A Smile) and tried to integrate the best defensive tactic (Italian KO IV by @Delicious) to come up with something that is successful but still defensively sound.
One of the strikers moves back to an additional DM Vol Att, DL moves to Sup, and the Defensive line moves back to Higher from Much Higher. Attacking mentality drops to Balanced.
It seemed to deliver a solid defence and still performed reasonably well. I will now test it on Attacking.
The tests were done with Man City, Wolves in EPL ranked 1 and 20, Wycombe and Exeter in L1 ranked 8 and 20 and Bromley and Kidderminster in VNL ranked 11 and 23.
olimorris said: Ah, I hadn't explored ZAZ Blue enough to realise that. But you're absolutely right, alter the dictionary values (in the attribute weightings section) in the notebook. If it doesn't make sense, let me know on here or via a GitHub issue and I can take a look. Expand
I did spend a bit of time deriving and testing position scores for positions not originally included in the ZaZ Blue tests. I did also do extensive testing of tactics using different structures and they still seemed to work. So I do believe the ykykyky balanced ratings are ok for all positions. My only doubt would be on the GK position.
In terms of roles vs positions, I think this has been covered off pretty extensively, positions are far more important. If your player doesn't have the role it doesn't seem to impact. This may change in coming releases as the match engine undergoes major changes, however the the current version still seems to work with the ratings we have been using since the development of the ykykyky and MDW genie scout ratings.
olimorris said: Yeah would be really interesting to see that comparison. In my notebook it's possible to have multiple weightings dictionaries defined. You can then select which one to use and run the notebook to generate the output for each.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output. Expand
I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this?
Hi @Zippo , is there any way we can get access to the set piece routines for the FM24 Hall of fame tactics. This would allow analysis on what is working and potentially lead us to better tactics
Hoping someone can help to differentiate the best (actually useful) attributes for two different DM roles. It seems that Volante is definitely a widely used role, but so is DM (Def) - just curious what a good balance/mix of attributes actually is given the importance to Pace/Acc vs Tackling/Marking if I actually want a good DM (Def) to close down games or alternate roles a bit. Or is it just no matter what, even for DM (Def) just get Pacey DMs with decent Jumping Reach and call it a day?
Thanks! Expand
I prefer to select the position rather than role. The key attributes for all DM roles are firstly Work Rate, then Pace and Stamina, then Passing, Decisions, Positioning, Teamwork, and Acceleration. Then train them in the role you will be using them the most ie Volante or DM De, and give them addition focus training of Defensive Positioning. This will give you the best result in my opinion.
Middleweight165 said: @Mark I'm still using your ratings for GS. Would you change anything to your ratings? Could you explain in laymans terms how your ratings work? What is the benefit of me using your ratings and not just focusing on those top key attributes identified here? Expand
I am sorry, I am overseas at the moment and have a trip across the Simpson Desert when I get back so wont be able to respond thoroughly. If you go back to The original thread for my ratings I think it explains the logic. Otherwise I will try and answer this in 4 or 5 weeks when I am back.
Rhumble said: Ahhhh ive been doing it slightly wrong , thanks for explaining the proper way , i think ive been treating the 2.17 not as a percentage and just subtracting it.
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout Expand
I don't think there are any major changes to the way attributes are treated. And I don't think there will be for the next iteration either. FM25 will be interesting. They make play with the attributes then.
I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well.
Tavares82 said: Who is the best? and mark what filter are you currently using? Expand
Firstly I do not use filters. To be honest I don't have the time nor the inclination to calculate this for everyone that wants to know. I have 9 grandkids. I am time poor. If you look at the early posts it will tell you the weightings for each position. You can then do the calculations.
The key attributes from the ykykyky balanced rating for DM in order are (these are the ones at 60 points or above):
90 work rate 70 pace 70 stamina 65 passing 65 decisions 65 positioning 65 teamwork 65 acceleration 60 composure
-the program might already deduct some points because of position rating, the drop off from DL to WBL is too big otherwise
-if you train and play him at left back he'll get to 20/20 for position
-not sure the % are transferable between positions, what I mean is 66% at LB might be relatively worse than 65% at CB Expand
Responses below:
If you read back through the posts you will see I have tested, calculated and allowed for the reduction FM Genie Scout applies.
Depending on my squad I would probably play him at left back as well to see if he develops.
The "balanced" part of the ratings file was trying to get the position ratings comparable across positions. It isn't exact because of the scales they use for calculations. But it is pretty close. I have noticed wingers are favored and I have thought about rescaling.
Rhumble said: His position score for left back is 17 , for every point below 20 it's 2.17 off the percentage , so 3 times 2.17 is 6.48, his left back percentage is 66.00% so you have to take off 6.48, which is 59.52, this is his actual percentage for left back because of being 3 below a perfect natural position of 20, therefore the central defender score of 64% is the highest percentage.
This was how it was worked out for fm22 I'm sure it's the same, hopefully @Mark can put me right if it's not the same for fm23 Expand
Pretty close. The 6.51% (3 x 2.17% is 6.51%) off 100% or multiply by 93.49%. So the left back would be 66.00% x 93.49% (100% - 6.51%) = 61.70%. Still below the 64.60% of the centre back.
If the first tactic isn't getting the results I am after I swap. Or if I am playing against a good side I choose the more defensive of the 2 tactics which is mostly the backup.
CBP87 said: How is the tactical familiarity with the swapping of the tactics pal? I know its terms of instructions that the team will be familiar but in terms of roles how are they getting on? do you see a drop in rating? Could a right sided DW suddenly play a Left IW the next game? Sorry for the questions, I'm intrigued though as I think you're on to something here Expand
I think if you train the 3 main tactics in terms of familiarity they will be fine. I train them in roles of the main tactic and in additional focus for the one I decide is best. It seems to work for me
Also I had a quick look at some players using the MDW22. The highest rated player interested in joining me had 9/10 Pace and Acceleration. Would you still sign this player? It didnt sit right with me that I'd sign players with such low speed, as we are always pushing that physicals are the most important, but this might be subjective bias. What are your thoughts?
FM23 I used MDW and trusted the ratings. Seemed to work
I was stuck with Genie Scout for many years and thought one year I would use FMRTE to see if it would help me better. What I find in GS as its best feature compared to FMRTE is its simplicity. Just this.
You can also import shortlist if I’m not wrong on FMRTE and sort them however you like. Now in terms of attributes weighting I think FMRTE excels for the reason that you can even set weightings for the strong/weak foot (which impacts CA/PA) but in GS is predefined under the hood for each position individually. Also another big help on FMRTE is that you can copy/paste anything within the program to anywhere you want and you dont need to take a screenshot then extract text from image etc.
Btw I’m not working or get any commission on FMRTE project
When I previously have tried exporting from FMRTE I could only do 1 player at a time. Has this changed?
Excel file
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Kku1AfHOGcHXyuUXjo23X5ETCH7bsy5/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=101720004536464855658&rtpof=true&sd=true
Squad attributes
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OT9j8s_YUS2kutouGIzIWyCmNlOhrQla/view?usp=drive_link
It goes to Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2024\views
FM ratings by Mark
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LxZ4ncpzC2f2YG_hF8BFCsdRxV7Rlsz0/view?usp=drive_link
It goes to FM Genie Scout 24g\Ratings
My Genie scout view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pmonKM9DqBfEWqjMFN7J73N91zC_3bZP/view?usp=drive_link
It goes to FM Genie Scout 24g\Layouts
Thanks for this. It has given me some great ideas for improving my work. I really like the tool to converts the screenshots. Should save me a lot of time. Well done
I did. Still testing the different ratings files for FM24
Tested across 3 leagues with lower ranked sides plus Man City.
Enjoy
The Attacking version is much better.
One of the strikers moves back to an additional DM Vol Att, DL moves to Sup, and the Defensive line moves back to Higher from Much Higher. Attacking mentality drops to Balanced.
It seemed to deliver a solid defence and still performed reasonably well. I will now test it on Attacking.
The tests were done with Man City, Wolves in EPL ranked 1 and 20, Wycombe and Exeter in L1 ranked 8 and 20 and Bromley and Kidderminster in VNL ranked 11 and 23.
I did spend a bit of time deriving and testing position scores for positions not originally included in the ZaZ Blue tests. I did also do extensive testing of tactics using different structures and they still seemed to work. So I do believe the ykykyky balanced ratings are ok for all positions. My only doubt would be on the GK position.
In terms of roles vs positions, I think this has been covered off pretty extensively, positions are far more important. If your player doesn't have the role it doesn't seem to impact. This may change in coming releases as the match engine undergoes major changes, however the the current version still seems to work with the ratings we have been using since the development of the ykykyky and MDW genie scout ratings.
Would value your feedback on the tool so far. I'm mulling over turning it into a web based tool if enough people value its output.
I am tied up with other FM stuff at the moment, so unfortunately haven't had the chance to look at your work. It does sound like something very beneficial to the community. I do have one question, ideally the tool would have the offset for the positional rating which I don't think you can download. I have always calculated this manually for my teams and key scouted players. Do you somehow derive this?
Hoping someone can help to differentiate the best (actually useful) attributes for two different DM roles. It seems that Volante is definitely a widely used role, but so is DM (Def) - just curious what a good balance/mix of attributes actually is given the importance to Pace/Acc vs Tackling/Marking if I actually want a good DM (Def) to close down games or alternate roles a bit. Or is it just no matter what, even for DM (Def) just get Pacey DMs with decent Jumping Reach and call it a day?
Thanks!
I prefer to select the position rather than role. The key attributes for all DM roles are firstly Work Rate, then Pace and Stamina, then Passing, Decisions, Positioning, Teamwork, and Acceleration. Then train them in the role you will be using them the most ie Volante or DM De, and give them addition focus training of Defensive Positioning. This will give you the best result in my opinion.
I am sorry, I am overseas at the moment and have a trip across the Simpson Desert when I get back so wont be able to respond thoroughly. If you go back to The original thread for my ratings I think it explains the logic. Otherwise I will try and answer this in 4 or 5 weeks when I am back.
They are from the FM Arena testing results
How have you found ykykyk balanced on FM23 , is it still relevant or was it primarily for zaz4.0 tactic on FM22, ive only just got round to buying FM23 and im a bit unsure which rating to use, which one are you using and are there any big differences between fm22 and fm23 when using genie scout
I don't think there are any major changes to the way attributes are treated. And I don't think there will be for the next iteration either. FM25 will be interesting. They make play with the attributes then.
I flick between my own and ykykyky and think they are still both working well.
Firstly I do not use filters. To be honest I don't have the time nor the inclination to calculate this for everyone that wants to know. I have 9 grandkids. I am time poor. If you look at the early posts it will tell you the weightings for each position. You can then do the calculations.
The key attributes from the ykykyky balanced rating for DM in order are (these are the ones at 60 points or above):
90 work rate
70 pace
70 stamina
65 passing
65 decisions
65 positioning
65 teamwork
65 acceleration
60 composure
-the program might already deduct some points because of position rating, the drop off from DL to WBL is too big otherwise
-if you train and play him at left back he'll get to 20/20 for position
-not sure the % are transferable between positions, what I mean is 66% at LB might be relatively worse than 65% at CB
Responses below:
If you read back through the posts you will see I have tested, calculated and allowed for the reduction FM Genie Scout applies.
Depending on my squad I would probably play him at left back as well to see if he develops.
The "balanced" part of the ratings file was trying to get the position ratings comparable across positions. It isn't exact because of the scales they use for calculations. But it is pretty close. I have noticed wingers are favored and I have thought about rescaling.
This was how it was worked out for fm22 I'm sure it's the same, hopefully @Mark can put me right if it's not the same for fm23
Pretty close. The 6.51% (3 x 2.17% is 6.51%) off 100% or multiply by 93.49%. So the left back would be 66.00% x 93.49% (100% - 6.51%) = 61.70%. Still below the 64.60% of the centre back.
I would just go with a strong tactic like 4-2-4 Bombyte Tweak
If the first tactic isn't getting the results I am after I swap. Or if I am playing against a good side I choose the more defensive of the 2 tactics which is mostly the backup.
I think if you train the 3 main tactics in terms of familiarity they will be fine. I train them in roles of the main tactic and in additional focus for the one I decide is best. It seems to work for me