I definitely recommend you to test this. In a season in which I scored 191 goals, I scored 58 corner goals with this routine. Kusi-Asare, with 20 jumping, scored 80 goals in the league that season (: Expand
Han106 said: I combined everything from Zim's that is not Attacking Corners and Chou's Attacking Corners for now. Expand
Start a new post on the Set Piece Sharing forum and I will add it to the schedule
Sorry for the delays. I decided I wanted to extend it to 4000 tests. I have now done 3 set piece routines and updated the original post. I removed standard deviation as I didn't think it offered much . I added a few other columns to try and make sense of the testing and updated the Legend at the bottom of the OP. I have also given my thoughts and the schedule for testing. I hope this helps someone. At the end of the process I might look to take the best from each of the SPs and build something for testing.
dzek said: Just to clarify something here. My test league uses the same player attributes as it is in FM-Arena tactic test league V1.0. I don't know if there are any changes in V2.0.
Other than that congratulations Mark for the initiative and I imagine that would help a lot of people.
Thank you! Expand
Only the small changes I mentioned on the test league forum
I am going to use @dzek testing database to look at a few of the recommended set pieces. I will be doing 4000 test matches with each set piece routine. The base tactic will be Katana 4231 v 1.3 which I think is close enough to the best tactic this year.
I will test all the set piece tactics in this forum if I am am able and update this OP with the results. Wish me luck.
So here goes.
The baseline: Katana v1.3 for 4000 tests.
Testing table Update:
Thoughts:
I have now come up with a rating and ranking system. I think that anything that is 10% above the baseline should be excellent and worth using, so there are a lot of excellent candidates for you to use. The stand out top 6 are Blue, Han106 1-24, Azure V3, Chicken Wing v1.8, Han 1-21 and Delicious 4 inside 34. I will be using the top ranked Blue Routine.
Previously I was approaching the results from 2 different ways.
The first was overall impact on results, as you cant tell how many goals have come as a result of the play after the set piece has occurred eg counter attacks, and also the throw ins. I am unsure how to find results from throw ins. So if you prefer this one then you should look at the points difference from the baseline tactic. Blue just leads Zim and Chciken Wing v1.8 from Han106 1-24 on this measure.
The second way to approach it was the overall set piece impact (SP +/-). There are 5 that standout on this measure. Han106 1-24 SP Best Hits seems to be the overall winner here from Han106 1-21 SP Best Hits, Delicious 4 inside 34 who is slightly in front of Chicken Wing v1.8 and CSTG KANE 4231VIFS. I think you could use any of these 5 or Blue, Azure v3 or Zim with confidence.
I would like to thank all the routine developers and sharers that gave me something to test.
Update:
I have added an overall score and rank.
Schedule:
I uploaded and tested Knap MC40, Chicken Wing v1.8 and Azure V3. There are now no more to test, Back to my Scunthorpe save.
Legend:
PPM Points per match GFPM Goals for per match GAPM Goals against per match GDPM Goal Difference per match Corners Goals from corners DFK Direct free kick goals IFK Indirect free kick goals CornersA Goals against from corners DFKA Direct free kick goals against IFK Indirect free kick goals against Pts Dif The PPM difference from the baseline tactic Corner Dif Difference between goals from corners and goals against from corners per match DFK Dif Difference between goals from DFK and goals against from DFK per match IFK Dif Difference between goals from IFK and goals against from IFK per match SP +/- total of the 3 Dif columns, so overall impact of attack and defend set pieces % SP For The percentage of goals scored from set pieces % SP Against The percentage of goals scored against from set pieces
Updated data getting more than 6000 matches for the AI 433 and 4231 tactics and more than 3000 matches for the 523.
I used 8 base formations. The data comes from FM Arena Patch 24.2 V1.0.
There are 2 or 3 formations that stand out against each AI formation
For the AI 433 I couldn't split 4231 and the 4222 def (deformation/levante) formation, just in front of 4222.
For AI 4231 the 4222 def was just in front of 4231 and 424.
For AI 523 the clear winner was 424 from a grouping of 3, 4231, 343 and 4222 def.
I know with the amount of matches and using data across tactics with different TIs and PIs and tactical styles that this is not perfect. However I do think it is usable if you wanted to try such an approach.
If you come up against any other formations, using the reverse approach ie which AI did better could possibly work, and in all cases it appears the AI 4231 outscores the other AI tactics. So for say 442 you should probably go with 4231.
It is working for me but it could be just the team I have put together and using the top tactics from the formations that is working. I still enjoy using this approach as it uses the different formations rather than set and forget.
Enjoy, and let me know your thoughts and if it works or doesn't for you.
Gianaa9 said: Hi, thank you very much! Can i have a summary of the changes you made? And what issues you solved of the old version? Results of this one will differ so much from the older one? Expand
I looked at Genie Scout and where the differences were for positions and attributes.
I will look into it at the first opportunity. Although you don't have to make the changes yourself, all I would ask is that you write down in bullet points the changes you'd like me to look at, although with what you've said so far, I think I've got a rough idea of what you saw and what you've found strange.
I'll wait for you to tell me, I'll look at them and then I'll tell you. Also these are the feedbacks that help me to develop the testing league.
Thank you very much! Expand
here is my updated save file. I do note that there is still a discrepancy in CA even where all the stats are the same
@dzek I have found a few anomalies in the positional setup. I will fix it tonight and send an updated link that you can use to replace the existing one with. Rather than talking you through it and making more work for you I thought I would help out. Please let me know if that is ok. All defenders look fine. Some of the DMs either don't have MC or AMC and have ST instead. Some of the wingers don't have both sides or ST. Some of the ST don't have wingers. Some of the attributes are marginally different.
As the title says, is there anyone who wants to download my test league since I haven't been testing tactics as much as I'd like lately? My goal has always been to help the community, not necessarily to be the first and best.
If there are enough people interested I will post the link here publicly for anyone who wants to download it.
I had a bit of a play with my first go at it and moved the left AM out to an IF. The Mez stayed but the DM Sup moved to DM Def. Also changed the CF to a PF Sup.
Also removed Get Stuck In and Pass into Space TIs.
The same test league and teams as the first tactic
I have been a bit keen for a while to try and come up with a reasonable 4222 tactic. I was glad to see one get up there with the Box Levante tactic by @Chris.
Fundamentally I moved the the IF to a second AM and one of the DMs forward to a CM Mez Sup.
I used my standard 3 divisions with 2 sides in each. I will show all the data from Man City and you can see the tables from the other Divisions. In summary, 2 winners, 2 seconds and 2 fifths. Not bad from the likes of Kidderminster and Wolves finishing 5th.
For what it is worth both ykykyky and MDW22 rate Odrizola as the better of the two assuming their DR positional ratings are both 20/20. Calculating them manually using ykykyky I have Odrizola 78.77% and Wembangomo 75.75%, and using MDW22 I make it Odrizola 78.60% and Wembangomo 73.73%.
This tactic owes a lot to the RedGen tactic by @CSTG KANE. I thought I would try and transform it into a 343 asymmetrical tactic. Unfortunately I forgot to change the name so it still says 424.
I moved one of the ST back to AM Att, the right winger back to MR IW Sup and the left back up to WB WB Att. To cover for the loss of a defender I placed one of the DMs to DM Def in the hope that he would cover when the WB went forward. I changed the other DM to Vol Su to try and get more attacking chances.
I used my normal testing teams. Highlights were Man City going close to winning everything and scoring 117 goals and 103 points. Missed out on CL by going down to PSG in the semi.
Even Bromley scored 132 goals and 111 points in the VNL.
Defensively seemed ok as well but not as good as RedGeneral.
I definitely recommend you to test this. In a season in which I scored 191 goals, I scored 58 corner goals with this routine. Kusi-Asare, with 20 jumping, scored 80 goals in the league that season (:
Han106 said: I combined everything from Zim's that is not Attacking Corners and Chou's Attacking Corners for now.
Start a new post on the Set Piece Sharing forum and I will add it to the schedule
As always please let me know your thoughts
Original tables
Updated tables
yes
Described here
A copy of the league here
Other than that congratulations Mark for the initiative and I imagine that would help a lot of people.
Thank you!
Only the small changes I mentioned on the test league forum
Good work as always
I left it with the staff
Can you tell me about the player attributes in the said database? What's the jumping reach of the players?
@dzek tells me that they are the same as the fm arena database
I will test all the set piece tactics in this forum if I am am able and update this OP with the results. Wish me luck.
So here goes.
The baseline: Katana v1.3 for 4000 tests.
Testing table Update:
Thoughts:
I have now come up with a rating and ranking system. I think that anything that is 10% above the baseline should be excellent and worth using, so there are a lot of excellent candidates for you to use. The stand out top 6 are Blue, Han106 1-24, Azure V3, Chicken Wing v1.8, Han 1-21 and Delicious 4 inside 34. I will be using the top ranked Blue Routine.
Previously I was approaching the results from 2 different ways.
The first was overall impact on results, as you cant tell how many goals have come as a result of the play after the set piece has occurred eg counter attacks, and also the throw ins. I am unsure how to find results from throw ins. So if you prefer this one then you should look at the points difference from the baseline tactic. Blue just leads Zim and Chciken Wing v1.8 from Han106 1-24 on this measure.
The second way to approach it was the overall set piece impact (SP +/-). There are 5 that standout on this measure. Han106 1-24 SP Best Hits seems to be the overall winner here from Han106 1-21 SP Best Hits, Delicious 4 inside 34 who is slightly in front of Chicken Wing v1.8 and CSTG KANE 4231VIFS. I think you could use any of these 5 or Blue, Azure v3 or Zim with confidence.
I would like to thank all the routine developers and sharers that gave me something to test.
Update:
I have added an overall score and rank.
Schedule:
I uploaded and tested Knap MC40, Chicken Wing v1.8 and Azure V3. There are now no more to test, Back to my Scunthorpe save.
Legend:
PPM Points per match
GFPM Goals for per match
GAPM Goals against per match
GDPM Goal Difference per match
Corners Goals from corners
DFK Direct free kick goals
IFK Indirect free kick goals
CornersA Goals against from corners
DFKA Direct free kick goals against
IFK Indirect free kick goals against
Pts Dif The PPM difference from the baseline tactic
Corner Dif Difference between goals from corners and goals against from corners per match
DFK Dif Difference between goals from DFK and goals against from DFK per match
IFK Dif Difference between goals from IFK and goals against from IFK per match
SP +/- total of the 3 Dif columns, so overall impact of attack and defend set pieces
% SP For The percentage of goals scored from set pieces
% SP Against The percentage of goals scored against from set pieces
Zims Best FM24 Set Piece Routine
I used 8 base formations. The data comes from FM Arena Patch 24.2 V1.0.
There are 2 or 3 formations that stand out against each AI formation
For the AI 433 I couldn't split 4231 and the 4222 def (deformation/levante) formation, just in front of 4222.
For AI 4231 the 4222 def was just in front of 4231 and 424.
For AI 523 the clear winner was 424 from a grouping of 3, 4231, 343 and 4222 def.
I know with the amount of matches and using data across tactics with different TIs and PIs and tactical styles that this is not perfect. However I do think it is usable if you wanted to try such an approach.
If you come up against any other formations, using the reverse approach ie which AI did better could possibly work, and in all cases it appears the AI 4231 outscores the other AI tactics. So for say 442 you should probably go with 4231.
It is working for me but it could be just the team I have put together and using the top tactics from the formations that is working. I still enjoy using this approach as it uses the different formations rather than set and forget.
Enjoy, and let me know your thoughts and if it works or doesn't for you.
I looked at Genie Scout and where the differences were for positions and attributes.
I will look into it at the first opportunity. Although you don't have to make the changes yourself, all I would ask is that you write down in bullet points the changes you'd like me to look at, although with what you've said so far, I think I've got a rough idea of what you saw and what you've found strange.
I'll wait for you to tell me, I'll look at them and then I'll tell you. Also these are the feedbacks that help me to develop the testing league.
Thank you very much!
here is my updated save file. I do note that there is still a discrepancy in CA even where all the stats are the same
Test League V2
Have a look and change your link in OP if you think it is worthwhile. I checked the data through Genie Scout and amended through FMRTE.
Hope this helps
As the title says, is there anyone who wants to download my test league since I haven't been testing tactics as much as I'd like lately? My goal has always been to help the community, not necessarily to be the first and best.
If there are enough people interested I will post the link here publicly for anyone who wants to download it.
Thanks!
I am definitely interested
Also removed Get Stuck In and Pass into Space TIs.
The same test league and teams as the first tactic
Man City and EPL
League One
VNL
Fundamentally I moved the the IF to a second AM and one of the DMs forward to a CM Mez Sup.
I used my standard 3 divisions with 2 sides in each. I will show all the data from Man City and you can see the tables from the other Divisions. In summary, 2 winners, 2 seconds and 2 fifths. Not bad from the likes of Kidderminster and Wolves finishing 5th.
Man City and EPL
League One
VNL
I moved one of the ST back to AM Att, the right winger back to MR IW Sup and the left back up to WB WB Att. To cover for the loss of a defender I placed one of the DMs to DM Def in the hope that he would cover when the WB went forward. I changed the other DM to Vol Su to try and get more attacking chances.
I used my normal testing teams. Highlights were Man City going close to winning everything and scoring 117 goals and 103 points. Missed out on CL by going down to PSG in the semi.
Even Bromley scored 132 goals and 111 points in the VNL.
Defensively seemed ok as well but not as good as RedGeneral.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Man City
Bromley