MrGreen said: @dzek done, please test Expand Now you have an increased chance of your tactic being queued up for testing. It's up to the FM-Arena's staff.
MrGreen said: Hey @dzek - the results are in the comment after the OP - here is the tactic screenshot too. Expand MrGreen said: @dzek the results are here mate Expand Just put the required screenshots in the OP and include your changes too. Its not for me but for anyone to see your tactic.
Bogeyman said: @MrGreen, I guess @dzek meant that you should "Edit" the opening post and add those screenshots to it. Expand Not actually. We can't see what instructions he used to his tactic and also the results.
Please give me a method for calculating the average CA of this team. How do I add, subtract, multiply, and divide to get the average CA ? Expand Find the sum of all your players CA and then divide the number with the amount of your players.
I would like to make an input here on a change to the Testing League that would probably help even more to minimize the "luck" factor.
There are 5 controlled teams and 5 AI teams. These teams all play each other and it is here that I would like to suggest since the league has this structure then it would be nice if each team played the same team in all fixtures until the end. I think that way the AI team would adapt even better to our tactics and I think that would reduce the "luck" factor.
*I'm leaving a picture of a reply given by Jack Joyce (SI dev) on how you can reduce statistical error(luck) within the game. What do you think?
It would be nice to have @Zippo's point of view here. Expand @Zippo would you like to apply this to the FM-Arena Tactic Testing League? I can create the custom fixtures for you. I also want to add a few more things that could make it even more "full" in terms of options with more matches per run. So each run would include 1,100 matches so 3,300 for every 3 runs and so on.
Details below: 1. Increase AI teams from 5 to 11 and each team will have 1 of the 11 tactics present in the game. The reason is to have our tactics play against all tactics in the game regardless if one tactic is better than another by nature in the game. Like 4-2-3-1 compared to 4-3-2-1 for example.
2. Increase human controlled teams to 11 from 5 so each team can play 1 of the 11 AI teams always until the end of the season.
3. No Staff for any team - this prevents Team Talks / Shouts being given during the match. (EBFM approach)
4. Each team will play 100 matches per season. • (22 teams x 100 matches) / 2 = 1.100 matches (for human controlled teams)
bwig said: Also IF right side is less effective than IF left and the left one would also be the strongest player in the game most of the time. Expand This was something I noticed too and I think it's because of the CM that in the attack he enters the space where the IF would move. In FM24 the IF and IW when another player enters their position in attack (ie AMCR/L) then they remain more wide and act somewhat like Wingers.
pixar said: This makes things even more ridiculous. Expand I think it would be a better idea to check the RNG first and then everything else, but we're already in the process.
pixar said: 1200 matches are played. I remember that with this new test league method, which was changed in the middle of last year, the RNG factor decreased by 1 point. This conclusion felt so pointless. Expand Attribute tests are tested in 2.400 matches.
sponsorkindest said: I don’t think the end of the season one file was shared for FM 24, by default all players in testing league had around 13 pace in FM 23, so we are looking at a team that has around 18 pace right? Expand Not exactly. Some positions have 15 and some others 13.
I want to point out some information about the team instructions that some may have missed. It applies to old and new players of the game.
The game has several instructions so the user can create many combinations and sometimes they can be confusing. Either start with a preset tactical style (Control Possession, Gegenpress, etc.) or build something from scratch, several times we don't know what each instruction affects in general. Within the 'Match Plans' we can see that the instructions are divided into separate categories such as - Possession, Penetration, Shape, Defending and General.
Below I have listed them in each category and what each category means:
PossessionThese are the instructions that will determine how your team manages possession of the ball. • Approach Play - Pass Into Space / Play Out Of Defence Pass Into Space - The player holding the ball will look to pass to his teammate in space and not to his feet. This usually happens in the opponent's half. Play Out Of Defence - The defensive line and players in the DM position will look to get the ball out of the defense with passes, trying to avoid clearance the ball with long passes. It changes the passing directness inside the PIs of those positions.
• Mixed Crosses / Float Crosses / Whipped Crosses / Low Crosses Mixed - Uses all kinds of crosses depending on the situation. Float - Mostly used when you have a tall striker who can excel in height, jumping reach and headers. Whipped - Powerful, fast, flicked spinners in the hope that some of them will find your teammate who is in a more favorable position than the opponent and score a goal. Possibly this type of cross will cause the opponent to score an own goal. Low - Low crosses/passes that are designed to find a short, quick striker on your team who can convert it into a goal.
• Final Third - Work Ball Into Box / Hit Early Crosses / Shoot On Sight Work Ball Into Box - Reduces crossing and shooting. ( the opposite of direct attack ) Hit Early Crosses - Encourages players to try quick crosses from deep before the opponent has time to cover the defence. Shoot On Sight - At the first opportunity... Shoot!
• Dribbling - Run At Defence / Dribble Less Run At Defence - Encourages players to run with the ball and try to get past opponents without passing. Dribble Less - They prefer to pass more rather than dribble.
• Passing Directness - Much Shorter / Shorter / Standard / Slightly More Direct / Much More Direct Sets the distance and the risk a player takes when passing the ball. The more direct the pass, the more risk the player takes and the more distance the ball will travel. Exactly the opposite is true for shorter passes.
PenetrationThese are the instructions that will determine how you move the ball from GK to final third. • Overlaps / Underlaps Overlaps - They increase the full back mentality while decreasing the winger mentality. Also the winger keeps the ball on his feet more waiting for movement from the full back. Underlaps - Similar to Overlaps with the only difference being that the winger is not so much waiting for the full back to make a move, instead looking for teammates either next to him or more advanced than him to make a move inside.
*Both of these instructions can be used in tactics that do not have wingers just the only difference is that the ball is not held because there are no wingers.
• Focus Play - Down The Left or/and Right Flank(s) or Through The Middle Flanks - Encourages offensive moves to occur more often from the flanks. Players who are in central positions in the field will be more supportive on the flanks. Middle - Exactly the opposite of the above. Perhaps the players who are most often in the midfield will narrow the distance between them a bit.
• GK in Possession - Distribute Quickly / Slow Pace Down Distribute Quickly - Increases the overall tempo of the team and tells the goalkeeper to play more quickly. Slow Pace Down - Just the opposite so that the goalkeeper can set the pace of the game and give his teammates some breathing space.
• Distribute To Area / Player / Position Where the goalkeeper will distribute the ball from his hands/feet.
• Distribution Type - Roll It Out / Throw It Long / Take Short Kicks / Take Long Kicks How the goalkeeper will distribute the ball from his hands/feet.
ShapeThese are the instructions that will determine your team's shape in and out of possession. • Attacking Width How much width your team will have on attack. If it is wide then you will see your players have large spacing between them. Ιf it is narrow then you will see them play more centrally because of the width.
• Counter / Hold Shape Counter - Once you win the ball back the players will run towards the attack. Hold Shape - As soon as the ball is won players will hold their positions and go up as a team.
• Defensive Line Sets the amount of space you allow the opponent to play - in combination with Line Of Engagement + Step Up More.
• Step Up More Team will be more reluctant to retreat - unless its an obvious dangerous situation where any team would. In tight-call situations they'll hold their line, and they'll be more risky/aggressive at looking for opportunities to step back up.
DefendingThese are the instructions that will determine how your team behave out of possession. • Line Of Engagement - Low Block / Mid Block / High Press How much space do you allow the opponent before you try to win the ball back.
• Trigger Press How intense the team's pressing should be. If it is too frequent then players will be encouraged to leave their positions to press. If it is not often then players will stay in their designated positions and press when it is appropriate for them.
• Prevent Short GK Distribution Prevents the opposing goalkeeper from playing close, to his defenders/full backs.
• Tackling - Get Stuck In / Stay On Feet Get Stuck In - Encourages players to be tougher in their tackling and often fall for tackles. This does not mean that tackles will increase. They will just be more aggressive. Stay On Feet - Exactly the opposite of Get Stuck In.
• Drop Off More Team will be more risk-averse - if there's a tight call they'll err on the side of caution and drop off. This protects more against through balls, but does mean that at times your defenders will drop off when they didn't need to, conceding terriority.
• Counter-Press / Regroup Counter Press - Once the team loses the ball in the opposing final third then they immediately press to get it back. Regroup - Exactly the opposite of Counter-Press. Here they run back to their positions without pressing.
GeneralThese instructions are general guidelines for your team to follow in all aspects of the game. • Time Wasting Players try to nibble away at the game time.
• Tempo How quickly the players make a decision in the game - this concerns shots, passes, dribbles, etc.
• Play for Set Pieces Encourage players to win set-pieces (corners, throw ins or fouls) so that more players come to the opposing final third.
• Creative Freedom - Be More Expressive / Disciplined Be More Expressive - Encourages players to be more free to change positions when the team is in possession in order to mislead the opponent. Be More Disciplined - Players stay in their designated positions and follow tactical instructions more disciplined.
• Pressing Trap - Trap Inside / Outside Trap Outside - Players will screen/protect the middle of the pitch, forcing the opposition to play the ball wide during build-up. The theory is that it's easier to win the ball back when the ball is wide, because the opposition have less available range of options due to being near the side-line. Trap Inside - Players will cut access to wide players, trying to encourage the opposition in to trying to play through the middle. The idea being that if you manage to win the ball back in a central area, the resulting counter-attack is more dangerous than one that starts from wide.
• Cross Engagement - Stop / Invite Crosses Stop Crosses - If your team is weak in controlling the threat by crosses and your opponent look to get early crosses from out wide as much as possible then this instruction encourages your side players to try to stop them. Invite Crosses - If your team has the aerial superiority than your opponent and your opponent is working the ball into the box to find open spaces in your defence, this instruction encourages your defence to stick together to each other to prevent this situation.
If anyone can enrich this thread with exactly what each instruction does or roughly does then it would help tremendously everyone. Thank you
Zeyad said: You can see whether the players are "low" or "fresh" if you add the fatigue column. However I still suspect there are degrees to "fresh" (for example from 1000 to 600) which also make a difference to the results and there is no way to know them withuot an external tool on the in game editor. Similar to condition Expand Negative number (-500) here means “fresh” and “need rest” (601 - 1000)
letsgo9 said: I meant by actually playing the game. I found out that balanced is way superior and attacking is situational. But this is just my opinion, of course. Expand That may be the case, yes. My view is that all mentalities can work but the more increased the more you can expect from your team at home and away matches(goals, shots etc). The secret here is to balance each mentality accordingly which for me is the bet.
Another thing that seems to be true in FM is that the more you invite pressure the more goals your team will concede.
letsgo9 said: Definitelly something to think about. But when actually playing games, mainly if u r a underdog team, balanced mentality seems way superior than attacking. Expand But we could have seen tactics with an "Attacking" mentality concede fewer goals than other "Balanced" tactics. After some testing of my own, I have found what is the best mentality in order: (in terms of PPG)
1. Attacking 2. Positive 3. Very Attacking 4. Balanced 5. Defensive 6. Cautious 7. Very Defensive
DreadPirateRoberts said: Thank you for the answer @dzek ! I just wanted to clarify what I mean exactly. I understand there is RNG involved both here on FM arena as well as any testing you might do on your own through holidaying. However, there are alot of tactics that quite simply would never achieve a high score regardless of how many times you run it. I have had tactics that got 80+ points with bournemouth on holiday mode, that barely cracked 50 points and a positive GD on here, I don't think it matters if it would be tested another 6,000 games. Similarly, I have tested high scoring tactics from this website who struggle to even keep teams like Luton,Bournemouth etc. in the prem. I understand that me testing for 1 season on my own in holiday mode does not give an accurate picture of a tactic, however there are still general guidelines on how good the tactic is. If I finish 16th with bournemouth using a certain tactic, I can almost be 100% sure that it is not a good one. Likewise if i get 80+ points with a team predicted to get relegated, its probably a good one. Its some good information though and I understand it a bit better so thank you! Expand I understand your question but apart from the factors above, you forgot the most important one (regarding testing in normal seasons). The ability of the players. Read here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5345-attributes-vs-tactics/
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players.
First of all, you don't need to create a new thread for your questions every time and also when they are of the same nature.
I've already answered you in your previous thread (see here) and I will answer you once again here. I'll send you some links to go in and read the reasoning behind the testing environment and what really happens in the game and if you have questions we can continue the discussion here.
Also in my opinion the 'best' team to choose to test your tactics through a normal season lets say in Premier League is a team with an average CA or/and an average reputation compared to other teams in the league, which in this case is Brighton. This approach doesn't guarantee that if you win the Premier League or relegate into Sky Bet Championship then your score here will be very high or very low accordingly. Of course more points are better but this happens because of RNG. (link above)
I have already check it and i think it doesn't change anything in the long run but I'm curious to see the results.
Here are my own:
424 QuadroWave X-4 (Tweak) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7334-424-quadrowave-x-4-tweak-run-at-defense/
iBox V1.9b - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7237-fm24-ibox-v1-9b-by-dzek/
Now you have an increased chance of your tactic being queued up for testing. It's up to the FM-Arena's staff.
MrGreen said: @dzek the results are here mate
Just put the required screenshots in the OP and include your changes too. Its not for me but for anyone to see your tactic.
Not actually. We can't see what instructions he used to his tactic and also the results.
Please read this again - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2733-how-to-get-your-tactic-tested/ and include the required screenshots on your OP.
Thank you.
Please give me a method for calculating the average CA of this team.
How do I add, subtract, multiply, and divide to get the average CA ?
Find the sum of all your players CA and then divide the number with the amount of your players.
I would like to make an input here on a change to the Testing League that would probably help even more to minimize the "luck" factor.
There are 5 controlled teams and 5 AI teams. These teams all play each other and it is here that I would like to suggest since the league has this structure then it would be nice if each team played the same team in all fixtures until the end. I think that way the AI team would adapt even better to our tactics and I think that would reduce the "luck" factor.
*I'm leaving a picture of a reply given by Jack Joyce (SI dev) on how you can reduce statistical error(luck) within the game.
What do you think?
It would be nice to have @Zippo's point of view here.
@Zippo would you like to apply this to the FM-Arena Tactic Testing League? I can create the custom fixtures for you. I also want to add a few more things that could make it even more "full" in terms of options with more matches per run. So each run would include 1,100 matches so 3,300 for every 3 runs and so on.
Details below:
1. Increase AI teams from 5 to 11 and each team will have 1 of the 11 tactics present in the game. The reason is to have our tactics play against all tactics in the game regardless if one tactic is better than another by nature in the game. Like 4-2-3-1 compared to 4-3-2-1 for example.
2. Increase human controlled teams to 11 from 5 so each team can play 1 of the 11 AI teams always until the end of the season.
3. No Staff for any team - this prevents Team Talks / Shouts being given during the match. (EBFM approach)
4. Each team will play 100 matches per season.
• (22 teams x 100 matches) / 2 = 1.100 matches (for human controlled teams)
This was something I noticed too and I think it's because of the CM that in the attack he enters the space where the IF would move. In FM24 the IF and IW when another player enters their position in attack (ie AMCR/L) then they remain more wide and act somewhat like Wingers.
I think it would be a better idea to check the RNG first and then everything else, but we're already in the process.
Attribute tests are tested in 2.400 matches.
Not exactly. Some positions have 15 and some others 13.
I want to point out some information about the team instructions that some may have missed. It applies to old and new players of the game.
The game has several instructions so the user can create many combinations and sometimes they can be confusing. Either start with a preset tactical style (Control Possession, Gegenpress, etc.) or build something from scratch, several times we don't know what each instruction affects in general. Within the 'Match Plans' we can see that the instructions are divided into separate categories such as - Possession, Penetration, Shape, Defending and General.
Below I have listed them in each category and what each category means:
PossessionThese are the instructions that will determine how your team manages possession of the ball.
• Approach Play - Pass Into Space / Play Out Of Defence
Pass Into Space - The player holding the ball will look to pass to his teammate in space and not to his feet. This usually happens in the opponent's half.
Play Out Of Defence - The defensive line and players in the DM position will look to get the ball out of the defense with passes, trying to avoid clearance the ball with long passes. It changes the passing directness inside the PIs of those positions.
• Mixed Crosses / Float Crosses / Whipped Crosses / Low Crosses
Mixed - Uses all kinds of crosses depending on the situation.
Float - Mostly used when you have a tall striker who can excel in height, jumping reach and headers.
Whipped - Powerful, fast, flicked spinners in the hope that some of them will find your teammate who is in a more favorable position than the opponent and score a goal. Possibly this type of cross will cause the opponent to score an own goal.
Low - Low crosses/passes that are designed to find a short, quick striker on your team who can convert it into a goal.
• Final Third - Work Ball Into Box / Hit Early Crosses / Shoot On Sight
Work Ball Into Box - Reduces crossing and shooting. ( the opposite of direct attack )
Hit Early Crosses - Encourages players to try quick crosses from deep before the opponent has time to cover the defence.
Shoot On Sight - At the first opportunity... Shoot!
• Dribbling - Run At Defence / Dribble Less
Run At Defence - Encourages players to run with the ball and try to get past opponents without passing.
Dribble Less - They prefer to pass more rather than dribble.
• Passing Directness - Much Shorter / Shorter / Standard / Slightly More Direct / Much More Direct
Sets the distance and the risk a player takes when passing the ball. The more direct the pass, the more risk the player takes and the more distance the ball will travel. Exactly the opposite is true for shorter passes.
PenetrationThese are the instructions that will determine how you move the ball from GK to final third.
• Overlaps / Underlaps
Overlaps - They increase the full back mentality while decreasing the winger mentality. Also the winger keeps the ball on his feet more waiting for movement from the full back.
Underlaps - Similar to Overlaps with the only difference being that the winger is not so much waiting for the full back to make a move, instead looking for teammates either next to him or more advanced than him to make a move inside.
*Both of these instructions can be used in tactics that do not have wingers just the only difference is that the ball is not held because there are no wingers.
• Focus Play - Down The Left or/and Right Flank(s) or Through The Middle
Flanks - Encourages offensive moves to occur more often from the flanks. Players who are in central positions in the field will be more supportive on the flanks.
Middle - Exactly the opposite of the above. Perhaps the players who are most often in the midfield will narrow the distance between them a bit.
• GK in Possession - Distribute Quickly / Slow Pace Down
Distribute Quickly - Increases the overall tempo of the team and tells the goalkeeper to play more quickly.
Slow Pace Down - Just the opposite so that the goalkeeper can set the pace of the game and give his teammates some breathing space.
• Distribute To Area / Player / Position
Where the goalkeeper will distribute the ball from his hands/feet.
• Distribution Type - Roll It Out / Throw It Long / Take Short Kicks / Take Long Kicks
How the goalkeeper will distribute the ball from his hands/feet.
ShapeThese are the instructions that will determine your team's shape in and out of possession.
• Attacking Width
How much width your team will have on attack. If it is wide then you will see your players have large spacing between them. Ιf it is narrow then you will see them play more centrally because of the width.
• Counter / Hold Shape
Counter - Once you win the ball back the players will run towards the attack.
Hold Shape - As soon as the ball is won players will hold their positions and go up as a team.
• Defensive Line
Sets the amount of space you allow the opponent to play - in combination with Line Of Engagement + Step Up More.
• Step Up More
Team will be more reluctant to retreat - unless its an obvious dangerous situation where any team would. In tight-call situations they'll hold their line, and they'll be more risky/aggressive at looking for opportunities to step back up.
DefendingThese are the instructions that will determine how your team behave out of possession.
• Line Of Engagement - Low Block / Mid Block / High Press
How much space do you allow the opponent before you try to win the ball back.
• Trigger Press
How intense the team's pressing should be. If it is too frequent then players will be encouraged to leave their positions to press. If it is not often then players will stay in their designated positions and press when it is appropriate for them.
• Prevent Short GK Distribution
Prevents the opposing goalkeeper from playing close, to his defenders/full backs.
• Tackling - Get Stuck In / Stay On Feet
Get Stuck In - Encourages players to be tougher in their tackling and often fall for tackles. This does not mean that tackles will increase. They will just be more aggressive.
Stay On Feet - Exactly the opposite of Get Stuck In.
• Drop Off More
Team will be more risk-averse - if there's a tight call they'll err on the side of caution and drop off. This protects more against through balls, but does mean that at times your defenders will drop off when they didn't need to, conceding terriority.
• Counter-Press / Regroup
Counter Press - Once the team loses the ball in the opposing final third then they immediately press to get it back.
Regroup - Exactly the opposite of Counter-Press. Here they run back to their positions without pressing.
GeneralThese instructions are general guidelines for your team to follow in all aspects of the game.
• Time Wasting
Players try to nibble away at the game time.
• Tempo
How quickly the players make a decision in the game - this concerns shots, passes, dribbles, etc.
• Play for Set Pieces
Encourage players to win set-pieces (corners, throw ins or fouls) so that more players come to the opposing final third.
• Creative Freedom - Be More Expressive / Disciplined
Be More Expressive - Encourages players to be more free to change positions when the team is in possession in order to mislead the opponent.
Be More Disciplined - Players stay in their designated positions and follow tactical instructions more disciplined.
• Pressing Trap - Trap Inside / Outside
Trap Outside - Players will screen/protect the middle of the pitch, forcing the opposition to play the ball wide during build-up. The theory is that it's easier to win the ball back when the ball is wide, because the opposition have less available range of options due to being near the side-line.
Trap Inside - Players will cut access to wide players, trying to encourage the opposition in to trying to play through the middle. The idea being that if you manage to win the ball back in a central area, the resulting counter-attack is more dangerous than one that starts from wide.
• Cross Engagement - Stop / Invite Crosses
Stop Crosses - If your team is weak in controlling the threat by crosses and your opponent look to get early crosses from out wide as much as possible then this instruction encourages your side players to try to stop them.
Invite Crosses - If your team has the aerial superiority than your opponent and your opponent is working the ball into the box to find open spaces in your defence, this instruction encourages your defence to stick together to each other to prevent this situation.
If anyone can enrich this thread with exactly what each instruction does or roughly does then it would help tremendously everyone. Thank you
Negative number (-500) here means “fresh” and “need rest” (601 - 1000)
That may be the case, yes. My view is that all mentalities can work but the more increased the more you can expect from your team at home and away matches(goals, shots etc). The secret here is to balance each mentality accordingly which for me is the bet.
Another thing that seems to be true in FM is that the more you invite pressure the more goals your team will concede.
But we could have seen tactics with an "Attacking" mentality concede fewer goals than other "Balanced" tactics.
After some testing of my own, I have found what is the best mentality in order:
(in terms of PPG)
1. Attacking
2. Positive
3. Very Attacking
4. Balanced
5. Defensive
6. Cautious
7. Very Defensive
Added 'Shoot Less Often' on DMs.
Removed: Overlaps, Focus Play, Get Stuck In, Step Up More
I understand your question but apart from the factors above, you forgot the most important one (regarding testing in normal seasons). The ability of the players.
Read here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5345-attributes-vs-tactics/
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players.
First of all, you don't need to create a new thread for your questions every time and also when they are of the same nature.
I've already answered you in your previous thread (see here) and I will answer you once again here. I'll send you some links to go in and read the reasoning behind the testing environment and what really happens in the game and if you have questions we can continue the discussion here.
FM-Arena Tactic Testing League conditions - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2712-fm23-fm-arena-tactic-testing-league/
FM RNG (Random Number Generation) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2713-10-944-matches-tested-fm-rng-measured/
Also in my opinion the 'best' team to choose to test your tactics through a normal season lets say in Premier League is a team with an average CA or/and an average reputation compared to other teams in the league, which in this case is Brighton. This approach doesn't guarantee that if you win the Premier League or relegate into Sky Bet Championship then your score here will be very high or very low accordingly. Of course more points are better but this happens because of RNG. (link above)
For anything else I'm here for you!
Thank you
Attacking width instruction is in the middle.
Just share a screenshot of your tactic and I think you will be fine.
Thank you