Yarema said: We should reward exploration, trying new ideas and taking risks, not posting 12 versions of a cookie cutter tactics so you can get a shiny badge for highest point average. There is enough competition as it is, there is even a HoF category.
Also I think what you guys suggest is too subjective and not really worth the effort and policing and would only cause bad blood. Most of us who regularly visit the site know who are the "innovators", "tweakers" etc. anyway or at least for me personally who is who. Expand You have a point here but since we don't have the testing league file available then it makes sense to try different variations of a tactic.
What I suggested is not competition but reward.
As @sponsorkindest said above this could be done like this: sponsorkindest said: A "Tactician Badge" for people who come up with their own tactics. A "Tweaker Badge" for those who make small changes to tactics and get good results. A "Tester Badge" for people who thoroughly test and give feedback on tactics. An "Innovator Badge" for those who introduce new tactical ideas. Expand
sponsorkindest said: I started playing FM 23 in November 2022, and this community has been a big help in helping me understand the game and how to create successful tactics. I agree with @Lapidus that FM-Arena is more about learning and understanding the game than ranking contributors or tactics. However, if we want to expand the forum's purpose (although I don't think it's necessary), I have a suggestion on how to do it.
Instead of giving one badge for high-scoring tactics, we could have different badges for different types of contributions. For example:
A "Tactician Badge" for people who come up with their own tactics. A "Tweaker Badge" for those who make small changes to tactics and get good results. A "Tester Badge" for people who thoroughly test and give feedback on tactics. An "Innovator Badge" for those who introduce new tactical ideas.
This way, we can recognize contributors with different levels of effort and expertise in a fair way. Expand Good idea!
My idea is just something additional. I just want to make it clear that the main purpose of the website will not be changed in any way.
Lapidus said: @dzek, imagine, one person puts a lot of efforts, hundreds of hours of playing and testing things, in creating a tactic and when he finds something that works incredible he brings the tactic here for a testing and gets a very good score 60 Points or 1.58 PPG whatever number format you like.
Now, other person who doesn't have any clue about FM and who hasn't spent a single effort on testing anything just takes that tactic and makes one totally irrelevant tweak, I don't know like changing one irrelevant PI of GK that would make 0.000001% difference and than he puts this tweaked tactic for a testing and due to lucky RNG he gets 61 Points and 1.60 PPG.
So now that second person, who doesn't have any clue about FM and who hasn't spent a single effort on testing, has a "shiny badge" that tells everyone that this person is the best tactician and also, he's a better tactic than the first person who did all the job.
No... no... no... turning this place into a place where tacticians compete with each other is nonsense because you can't compete with someone if any moment he can take your works as his own and there're a lot of tactical settings that makes such small difference that even 4,000 matches RNG can be bigger than their impact.
I have full confidence that this place should be about testing tactics/game mechanics to understand how the game works and what playing approaches work the best and not about competing with others. Expand It was a problem I had thought about when I was writing this but I think there are ways to combat it.
For example, to have a proper distribution of these "badges"(as you said) there could be a weighting as to how many tactics A has posted compared to B and so that B who just made a small to minimal change to a tactic of A then B would not get more points than A. It could also be that in each new edition of the game these are reset.
I don't think of it as a competition but as a "reward" of the creator to the FM-Arena community and FM in general because surely many people enter the site as guests and follow the evolution of the tactics here.
It would be very pleasant to have others join this conversation, old and new, to hear different opinions.
It's me, Dzek I have an idea for the FM Arena devs to implement on the website. Following my previous suggestion to add "PPG" to the tactics table, it could be done in a different way and that would help more the visibility of both the website and the creators! Since this site is mainly for testing the tactics we create I would like to suggest some ideas and discuss them! So here are they:
1. Create a tab on our profiles called Tactics -> FM22, FM23, FM24, etc. and in each tab there should be the tactics we posted for each edition - this is mainly for a reorganisation of tactics according to the game rather than having them all on pages.
2. As managers in real life have PPG (Points Per Game) as a unit of measurement it would be useful for each creator in his/her profile or even when he/she opens a new thread or writes a comment on others threads to show his/her PPG from all the tactics he/she has tested in the testing league combined.
An example: If I have posted two tactics for FM23 and one has got 1.34 PPG and the other 1.47 PPG then as a creator I have 1.41 points per game (PPG).
Thanks for your time!
PS I think you've got the whole idea but maybe if others join in we can build it even better. We will definitely need the participation of the devs of the website
radius said: okay. i understand. match engine is important. not data update. so i have update transfer from july. and i think my game is 23.3 version. so should i go for table tactic 23.2.0 or 23.5.0? Expand Send a screenshot of your game's start screen.
radius said: but i have 23.3 winter update version. and after that is 23.4 version. and my friend for both version table tactics dont exist. Expand 23.3 and 23.4 versions didnt change anything on match engine so you are good to go for that table i sent you above.
radius said: can i do this tactic on 23.3? i cant see table test for 23.3 game version. can someone please give me good tactic for 23.3 version if you have. thanks guys. Expand There isnt 23.3 version. Game's latest version is 23.5 and match engine's latest version is 23.2 so click here and choose from this table.
41212 Re-Cookie VI (Tweak - WM) A tweak of this tactic, created by @Delicious.
Changes: Team Instructions - Removed: Get Stuck In
Roles and Duties - IW(Su) --> WM(Su)
Player Instructions - Added 'Shoot Less Often' to DMC and DC positions. - Removed 'Take More Risks' from AMC and MR/L positions. - Removed 'Get Further Forward' from MR/L positions.
41212 Re-Cookie VI (Tweak - IW) A tweak of this tactic, created by @Delicious.
Changes: Team Instructions - Removed: Get Stuck In
Player Instructions - Added 'Shoot Less Often' to DMC and DC positions. - Removed 'Take More Risks' from AMC and MR/L positions. - Removed 'Get Further Forward' from MR/L positions.
Also I think what you guys suggest is too subjective and not really worth the effort and policing and would only cause bad blood. Most of us who regularly visit the site know who are the "innovators", "tweakers" etc. anyway or at least for me personally who is who.
You have a point here but since we don't have the testing league file available then it makes sense to try different variations of a tactic.
What I suggested is not competition but reward.
As @sponsorkindest said above this could be done like this:
sponsorkindest said: A "Tactician Badge" for people who come up with their own tactics.
A "Tweaker Badge" for those who make small changes to tactics and get good results.
A "Tester Badge" for people who thoroughly test and give feedback on tactics.
An "Innovator Badge" for those who introduce new tactical ideas.
Instead of giving one badge for high-scoring tactics, we could have different badges for different types of contributions. For example:
A "Tactician Badge" for people who come up with their own tactics.
A "Tweaker Badge" for those who make small changes to tactics and get good results.
A "Tester Badge" for people who thoroughly test and give feedback on tactics.
An "Innovator Badge" for those who introduce new tactical ideas.
This way, we can recognize contributors with different levels of effort and expertise in a fair way.
Good idea!
My idea is just something additional. I just want to make it clear that the main purpose of the website will not be changed in any way.
Now, other person who doesn't have any clue about FM and who hasn't spent a single effort on testing anything just takes that tactic and makes one totally irrelevant tweak, I don't know like changing one irrelevant PI of GK that would make 0.000001% difference and than he puts this tweaked tactic for a testing and due to lucky RNG he gets 61 Points and 1.60 PPG.
So now that second person, who doesn't have any clue about FM and who hasn't spent a single effort on testing, has a "shiny badge" that tells everyone that this person is the best tactician and also, he's a better tactic than the first person who did all the job.
No... no... no... turning this place into a place where tacticians compete with each other is nonsense because you can't compete with someone if any moment he can take your works as his own and there're a lot of tactical settings that makes such small difference that even 4,000 matches RNG can be bigger than their impact.
I have full confidence that this place should be about testing tactics/game mechanics to understand how the game works and what playing approaches work the best and not about competing with others.
It was a problem I had thought about when I was writing this but I think there are ways to combat it.
For example, to have a proper distribution of these "badges"(as you said) there could be a weighting as to how many tactics A has posted compared to B and so that B who just made a small to minimal change to a tactic of A then B would not get more points than A. It could also be that in each new edition of the game these are reset.
I don't think of it as a competition but as a "reward" of the creator to the FM-Arena community and FM in general because surely many people enter the site as guests and follow the evolution of the tactics here.
It would be very pleasant to have others join this conversation, old and new, to hear different opinions.
It's me, Dzek
Following my previous suggestion to add "PPG" to the tactics table, it could be done in a different way and that would help more the visibility of both the website and the creators! Since this site is mainly for testing the tactics we create I would like to suggest some ideas and discuss them! So here are they:
1. Create a tab on our profiles called Tactics -> FM22, FM23, FM24, etc. and in each tab there should be the tactics we posted for each edition - this is mainly for a reorganisation of tactics according to the game rather than having them all on pages.
2. As managers in real life have PPG (Points Per Game) as a unit of measurement it would be useful for each creator in his/her profile or even when he/she opens a new thread or writes a comment on others threads to show his/her PPG from all the tactics he/she has tested in the testing league combined.
An example:
If I have posted two tactics for FM23 and one has got 1.34 PPG and the other 1.47 PPG then as a creator I have 1.41 points per game (PPG).
Thanks for your time!
PS I think you've got the whole idea but maybe if others join in we can build it even better. We will definitely need the participation of the devs of the website
Almost the same as 424 Bombyte Tweak by @sponsorkindest with some changes.
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Roll It Out, Distribute Quickly
- Removed: Slow Pace Down
Tweaks on IFK defensive set pieces.
Just trying to see how the tactic without Pass Into Space will go.
Almost the same as 424 Bombyte Tweak by @sponsorkindest with some changes.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Slow Pace Down
- Removed: Pass Into Space, Roll It Out, Distribute Quickly, Get Stuck In
Player Instructions
- Added 'Take More Risks' to ST positions.
- Added 'Close Down More' to all positions.
- Removed 'Tackle Harder' from GK.
So use this.
Send a screenshot of your game's start screen.
23.3 and 23.4 versions didnt change anything on match engine so you are good to go for that table i sent you above.
There isnt 23.3 version. Game's latest version is 23.5 and match engine's latest version is 23.2 so click here and choose from this table.
A tweak of this tactic, created by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Removed: Get Stuck In
Roles and Duties
- IW(Su) --> WM(Su)
Player Instructions
- Added 'Shoot Less Often' to DMC and DC positions.
- Removed 'Take More Risks' from AMC and MR/L positions.
- Removed 'Get Further Forward' from MR/L positions.
A tweak of this tactic, created by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Removed: Get Stuck In
Player Instructions
- Added 'Shoot Less Often' to DMC and DC positions.
- Removed 'Take More Risks' from AMC and MR/L positions.
- Removed 'Get Further Forward' from MR/L positions.
An updated version of this tactic.
Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Low Crosses
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Focus Play Down Both Flanks
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Underlaps
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Removed: Low Crosses, Focus Play Down Both Flanks, Underlaps, Get Stuck In
Tweaks on all PIs.
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Distribute Quickly
- Removed: Underlap Left, Slow Pace Down
An updated version of this tactic.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Distribute Quickly
- Removed: Underlap Right, Slow Pace Down