Lapidus said: I'm more that sure that "Pass Into Space" TI and "Take More Risk" PI do 99% the same thing.
It's obvious to me that "Pass Into Space" TI adds "Take More Risk" PI to all eligible positions and it could be it also add "Get Further Forward" PI ( but for the second I'm not sure ) Expand It may be as you say.
Delicious said: Idk,check those options with comprensive highlights, you will understand it better.
Goals doesn't mean anything unfortunaly . If the gameplay was totaly different like you do believe ,imho we would'have totaly different numbers from the 442 i did posted.
This is my opinion and i won't force into none, but imho the only thing that matter in here, is the WM and i hope it is because i am using it for the pep recreation :P (since is the only role, that allow me to put dribble less) Expand We will see and we will learn
Delicious said: That's what pass into space mean, i mean literally it means that... You can try to add PI take more risk and Pass into space, you will notice 0 changes! Expand I think there is a difference because as I said “Take More Risks” instruct players to play low percentage passes AND through balls.
To be more clear of the difference if you add “Take More Risks” to your GK, he will not try through balls but he will try low percentage passes to start a counter attack if his role is SK. I don't know about GK role but it maybe does the same.
Delicious said: I am mean you saw with your eyes, that now your players with that setup are playing in a different way then before? talking about much directness PI with Shorter passing TI. Will check it in a bit, because if it does is quite nice. Expand I just saw the number of goals to increased to be honest.
Delicious said: Your way sound clear. But pass into space isn't basically : Play more direct and take more risk ?
To me doesn't work like that,but really to me all those stuff are piled in a senseless way. Why they didn't put something like before where you could choose your modifiers?
I mean IAs works that way, i don't understand why i should go "maybe it is that " Expand "Pass Into Space" and "Take More Risks" are not the same.
Pass Into Space - you tell your players to pass into space and NOT in their feet. This doesn't mean it's through ball but it could be.
Take More Risks - you tell your players to play riskier passes ANYWHERE on the pitch and to try through balls in more advanced areas of the pitch. This does not increase the number of passes at all but they tend to prefer the riskier ones. I also think it slightly increases dribbling.
Delicious said: I am more confused then before )). Expand Bro is very clear
Imagine "Shorter Passing" is the number 7 and "Standard Passing" is the number 10 in a scale of 1-20.
Let's say you set your team to play on shorter passing.. and you set your DMs to play more direct passing on PIs..
Then your DMs will play more direct THAN the rest of your team which means their passing will increase somewhere between 7-10 on the scale. Maybe 8 or 9.
Delicious said: So since you've putted all pass more directness to almost all roles as PI how does it affect it ?_? And what's your porpuse to doing that. (It's just curiosity) Expand Now, with shorter passing, players TEND to keep possession and patiently pass the ball horizontally until they find a gap to exploit. With a higher tempo you increase your players' need to move the ball forward and shorten the pass for the sake of it, but they continue to do so because of the shorter passing TI. As "Pass Into Space" works wonders in this match engine then I thought increasing the passing directness in PIs would help "Pass Into Space" more and I saw this from my testing that my players especially AF scoring 15-20+ more goals than before.
Lapidus said: You're mistaken, it also impacts other positions.
Put this tactic without "Run At Defence" TI for testing again and you'll see a difference. Expand I didn't say it will not have any difference and I already tried it and with "Run At Defence" enabled was more effective. I said that it impacts more advanced positions players.
Delicious said: About pass directness on PI for me works only if you set-in on standard, but he saying that doesn't work like that ?_? Expand I'm not sure if i understand your question but you can read this comment by SI's Match Engine developer, Jack Joyce.
Lapidus said: "Run At Defense" TI sets WMs dribble settings at the same level with IWs or W
Only when you remove "Run At Defense" TI then there'll be a difference in dribbling between WM and IWs/W Expand I don't think so. "Run At Defence" impact players in advanced positions like AMC/L/R and ST. The reason behind this is because if you add TI "Run At Defence" and remove PI "Dribble More" on BPDs then you don't get the same dribbling levels so they don't dribble with ball on their feet.
Delicious said: But since you've put more directness PI how does interact with pass shorter on TI? How do you came up with that conclusion. Even that ease on PI but with Much trigger. Expand Instructions in FM tend to be modifiers on the existing level rather than overriding - e.g. if your team is told to play short, but you have a PI telling your DM to play more direct - they're still not going to play as direct as if your team was balanced passing directness with the same PI. PIs are assumed to be e.g. 'play more direct than the rest of the team is'.
The same applies to "Trigger Press" and "Attacking Width - I'm not 100% sure for this but it could be with Stay Wider/Sit Narrower PIs".
Delicious said: I am just looking for WM's PI (since is the only role that doesn't have dribble more for Possession, i am studying it for Pep 3421) but those stuff are a bit curious as well ) Expand I'm trying to figure it out too if "Dribble More" PI have a positively/negatively impact on wide players.
Delicious said: @dzek can you do a run with Pass directness on standard? Expand I already did a lot of testing myself and at FM-Arena and I came to the conclusion that "Shorter Passing" is better than "Standard" in terms of TIs.
Something I wanted to mention if someone doesn't know, if you have "Higher Tempo" and decrease/increase the passing directness lower/higher than "Standard" then the tempo also decreases/increases accordingly, but if you change the passing directness via PIs then the tempo is not affected.
An updated version of this tactic. Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes: Team Instructions: - Added: Shorter Passing, Focus Play Down The Flanks, Underlaps, Much Lower Defensive Line, Much More Often, Get Stuck In - Removed: Wide, Much Higher Defensive Line, More Often
Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Shorter Passing, Roll It Out, Counter-Press, Much Lower Defensive Line
- Removed: Throw It Long
Roles and Duties
- PF(At) --> AF(At)
Tweaks on all PIs & set pieces.
It's obvious to me that "Pass Into Space" TI adds "Take More Risk" PI to all eligible positions and it could be it also add "Get Further Forward" PI ( but for the second I'm not sure )
It may be as you say.
Goals doesn't mean anything unfortunaly
This is my opinion and i won't force into none, but imho the only thing that matter in here, is the WM and i hope it is because i am using it for the pep recreation :P (since is the only role, that allow me to put dribble less)
We will see and we will learn
I think there is a difference because as I said “Take More Risks” instruct players to play low percentage passes AND through balls.
To be more clear of the difference if you add “Take More Risks” to your GK, he will not try through balls but he will try low percentage passes to start a counter attack if his role is SK. I don't know about GK role but it maybe does the same.
Delicious said: I am mean you saw with your eyes, that now your players with that setup are playing in a different way then before? talking about much directness PI with Shorter passing TI. Will check it in a bit, because if it does is quite nice.
I just saw the number of goals to increased to be honest.
To me doesn't work like that,but really to me all those stuff are piled in a senseless way.
Why they didn't put something like before where you could choose your modifiers?
I mean IAs works that way, i don't understand why i should go "maybe it is that
"Pass Into Space" and "Take More Risks" are not the same.
Pass Into Space - you tell your players to pass into space and NOT in their feet. This doesn't mean it's through ball but it could be.
Take More Risks - you tell your players to play riskier passes ANYWHERE on the pitch and to try through balls in more advanced areas of the pitch. This does not increase the number of passes at all but they tend to prefer the riskier ones. I also think it slightly increases dribbling.
Bro is very clear
Imagine "Shorter Passing" is the number 7 and "Standard Passing" is the number 10 in a scale of 1-20.
Let's say you set your team to play on shorter passing..
and you set your DMs to play more direct passing on PIs..
Then your DMs will play more direct THAN the rest of your team which means their passing will increase somewhere between 7-10 on the scale. Maybe 8 or 9.
Delicious said: So since you've putted all pass more directness to almost all roles as PI how does it affect it ?_?
And what's your porpuse to doing that. (It's just curiosity)
Now, with shorter passing, players TEND to keep possession and patiently pass the ball horizontally until they find a gap to exploit. With a higher tempo you increase your players' need to move the ball forward and shorten the pass for the sake of it, but they continue to do so because of the shorter passing TI. As "Pass Into Space" works wonders in this match engine then I thought increasing the passing directness in PIs would help "Pass Into Space" more and I saw this from my testing that my players especially AF scoring 15-20+ more goals than before.
Put this tactic without "Run At Defence" TI for testing again and you'll see a difference.
I didn't say it will not have any difference and I already tried it and with "Run At Defence" enabled was more effective. I said that it impacts more advanced positions players.
Without "Run At Defence" - https://fm-arena.com/thread/6004-41212-re-cookie-vi-tweak-v3-1/
With "Run At Defence" - https://fm-arena.com/thread/6005-41212-re-cookie-vi-tweak-v3-2/
I'm not sure if i understand your question but you can read this comment by SI's Match Engine developer, Jack Joyce.
Only when you remove "Run At Defense" TI then there'll be a difference in dribbling between WM and IWs/W
I don't think so. "Run At Defence" impact players in advanced positions like AMC/L/R and ST. The reason behind this is because if you add TI "Run At Defence" and remove PI "Dribble More" on BPDs then you don't get the same dribbling levels so they don't dribble with ball on their feet.
How do you came up with that conclusion. Even that ease on PI but with Much trigger.
Instructions in FM tend to be modifiers on the existing level rather than overriding - e.g. if your team is told to play short, but you have a PI telling your DM to play more direct - they're still not going to play as direct as if your team was balanced passing directness with the same PI. PIs are assumed to be e.g. 'play more direct than the rest of the team is'.
The same applies to "Trigger Press" and "Attacking Width - I'm not 100% sure for this but it could be with Stay Wider/Sit Narrower PIs".
Delicious said: I am just looking for WM's PI (since is the only role that doesn't have dribble more for Possession, i am studying it for Pep 3421) but those stuff are a bit curious as well
I'm trying to figure it out too if "Dribble More" PI have a positively/negatively impact on wide players.
I already did a lot of testing myself and at FM-Arena and I came to the conclusion that "Shorter Passing" is better than "Standard" in terms of TIs.
Something I wanted to mention if someone doesn't know, if you have "Higher Tempo" and decrease/increase the passing directness lower/higher than "Standard" then the tempo also decreases/increases accordingly, but if you change the passing directness via PIs then the tempo is not affected.
Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions
- Added: Higher Tempo, Get Stuck In
- Removed: Slightly Higher Tempo
Roles and Duties
- CD(De) --> BPD(De)
- WB(Su) --> IWB(Su)
- BWM(Su) --> VOL(At)
- W(Su) --> WM(Su)
Tweaks on all PIs.
Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes:
Roles and Duties:
- BPD(De) --> BPD(St & Co)
- DM(Su) --> DLP(Su)
Tweaks on all PIs & set pieces.
• Run Wide With Ball
• Stay Wider
• Tackle Harder
Tactical style by @Delicious.
Changes:
Team Instructions:
- Added: Shorter Passing, Focus Play Down The Flanks, Underlaps, Much Lower Defensive Line, Much More Often, Get Stuck In
- Removed: Wide, Much Higher Defensive Line, More Often
Roles and Duties:
- SK(De) --> SK(At)
- CD(De) --> BPD(Co)
- CWB(Su) --> IWB(Su)
- DLP(Su) --> DM(Su)
- IW(Su) --> WM(Su)
Tweaks on all PIs & set pieces.
Team Instructions:
Shorter Passing --> Much Shorter Passing
Team Instructions:
Added - Low Crosses
Roles and Duties:
WB(Su) --> IWB(Su)
DM(De) --> DM(Su)
VOL(At) --> VOL(Su)