Gracolas said: Im talking out of my ass, because im at work and with no access to FM - later on i can check the stats and let you know the numbers.. The point is, he was still performing at same level as my world class prime Strikers and he has low physical attributes Expand
There are also other factors that contribute to goals, like hidden stats. If I recall correctly, Haaland is a model citizen, meaning his mental status are nearly perfect.
Gracolas said: Thanks @Mark this actually helps me a lot. Would it be good idea to expand to something like 20 attributes? I know this actually takes you a lot of time, but I feel like we are missing some possible important attributes in some positions. Example: In my save I have Haaland with 34 years old and he has something like 10 acc + pace and 18 Finishing, with the numbers you've shared it would make sense that he doesnt score much (lack of pace and acc), but the reality is that even though he's not a scoring machine as he used to be, he's still scoring 20+ goals in a season (which is pretty good for his age). Btw, im with Real Madrid (so yea, he's not beating league 2 teams ) Expand
To be honest, 20 goals a season in Real Madrid is not that impressive, specially for someone like Haaland, with over 15 in almost everything.
Bogeyman said: In FM-Base testing the assistant manager picks the team. Your ZaZ - Blue uses Defensive Wingers and the assistant manager picks slow wingers with high defensive skills for these roles so your tactics is tested with slow wingers with high defensive skills and Phoenix tactic is tested with regular wingers. Something like that can't happen in FM-Arena testing and that's why it's my favorite testing. Expand
That explains a lot. Anyway, I finally got some good improvements to Blue, after one hundred failed tests. It gives way better results to Fulham and slightly better to Manchester City, so I guess it will perform better overall (results here can always be different from my tests). I'm just cleaning up to release it. Anyway, this is not the topic to talk about Blue.
It really puzzles me that Phoenix and Blue didn't do very well in fm-base last patch. In your tests, it had a big variation in five tests, which makes me think they just got a bad day in the office, like your 311 worst score (which is still pretty high anyway).
Gracolas said: Hi @ZaZ , what you consider to be the best training to take max out of this tactic? Expand
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as best training. If you want to increase chance of winning during the current season, then you can go with normal intensity and train more attacking movements, defensive position and teamwork, as well as match practice and team bonding for happiness/cohesion, and recovery to prevent injuries. However, these are not the best options for attribute growth. If you want to maximize attribute gain, then you add double intensity training, getting more injuries and tired players during the season, as well as sessions with quickness and specific attributes you want to increase. I usually do the first because I play without reloading, but it's more about if you plan to develop players for several seasons or not.
In the openning post, there are two training routines that I often use. Another thing that I do is set all players to train their specific roles in the tactic and individual training for quickness (except goalkeeper, which trains shot reflexes).
P.S.: I updated training schedules for what I'm using lately.
If I understand you correctly then you suggest testing human tactics vs human tactics but the result of such testing would be useless when you play vs AI managers because it's a completely different matter.
Testing human tactics vs human tactics sounds like an interesting idea but I'm not sure there are many people interested in it... if we see a lot of people interested then we might consider doing it. Expand
I have been contacted more than once with questions about counters to Blue, from people that play multiplayer. This kind of test would be useful for that, revealing vulnerabilities that can either be exploited by others or fixed by the authors.
Anyway, I understand it's extra work for you guys, so I hope more people show interest to make this viable. =)
scalp said: 10 teams, 10 different top tactics, each playing with its own original top tactics? This is a great idea, I've been thinking about it for a long time! Expand
20 teams, each tactic with two teams, the same way as they make the other tests, with team A and team B. That way you have more matches played per tactic.
I would like to suggest a competition with the top 10 tactics (from different authors), two teams per tactic, all with the same players and frozen attributes. After the initial setup of this league, it would be pretty easy to update and run again if the top tactics have changed, like once a month or two. Results would be shown in a new table, with the score of each of these tactics in this test league, in the same layout as the other tables.
The benefit of this league would be to understand strengths and vulnerabilities of the tactics, allowing us to improve further. Is there any chance to make this happen, @Zippo?
DeviAngel said: @ZaZ I have to ask. I don't know if its because of the players. I moved to Lazio, I played with your tactics this new season, the only change I made is taking out the CM and moving it to AF position.
I got some good results but again I don't know if its because of the tactics or the players.
Have you tested something like this ? I just moved the CM to AF nothing else... I was thinking about putting the DLP (defense) instead of Support.
Gracolas said: Hi all, Im quite new in this forum. I am trully sorry if this was explained before, but i didnt manage to find the answer to my question..
I keep seeing in other threads that you guys refer to this link: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ to understand which attributes are more important in each role, but all that i see in that page is an tactic "Phoenix v3.0" with different results... I mean, where can I see what is important for an DM, for example.. Expand
Below is the stats of Manchester City Best XI after a full season (holiday mode, ended with 106 points).
As you can see, DM does barely any dribbles and creates even less chances of goal. By the number of passes, you can understand it's essentialy a transition role. That means it doesn't need high values of dribbling. However, acceleration, pace and speed are still important, as they help you reach the ball before your opponent and get to positions that increase pass accuracy. On the other hand, they participate a lot in aerial attempts, so having good jumping reach could take them to new heights, literally.
To be honest, depending on youth intake is quite pointless. You spend lots of money to get one or two useful players every year, when you could just invest the same money to get even more youth players from other teams. I feel like it's a loss of money (but I always max youth stuff anyway, just because I like to feel I improved the team).
Try Void, his tactic is king at scoring goals!
There are also other factors that contribute to goals, like hidden stats. If I recall correctly, Haaland is a model citizen, meaning his mental status are nearly perfect.
Btw, im with Real Madrid (so yea, he's not beating league 2 teams
To be honest, 20 goals a season in Real Madrid is not that impressive, specially for someone like Haaland, with over 15 in almost everything.
FCK literaly got fcked.
That explains a lot. Anyway, I finally got some good improvements to Blue, after one hundred failed tests. It gives way better results to Fulham and slightly better to Manchester City, so I guess it will perform better overall (results here can always be different from my tests). I'm just cleaning up to release it. Anyway, this is not the topic to talk about Blue.
Hmm... I will see if I can make some changes to improve the results for weaker teams.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as best training. If you want to increase chance of winning during the current season, then you can go with normal intensity and train more attacking movements, defensive position and teamwork, as well as match practice and team bonding for happiness/cohesion, and recovery to prevent injuries. However, these are not the best options for attribute growth. If you want to maximize attribute gain, then you add double intensity training, getting more injuries and tired players during the season, as well as sessions with quickness and specific attributes you want to increase. I usually do the first because I play without reloading, but it's more about if you plan to develop players for several seasons or not.
In the openning post, there are two training routines that I often use. Another thing that I do is set all players to train their specific roles in the tactic and individual training for quickness (except goalkeeper, which trains shot reflexes).
P.S.: I updated training schedules for what I'm using lately.
Thanks! I will see what happens if I set it to Attacking or Very Attacking, since it's already very solid in the back.
If I understand you correctly then you suggest testing human tactics vs human tactics but the result of such testing would be useless when you play vs AI managers because it's a completely different matter.
Testing human tactics vs human tactics sounds like an interesting idea but I'm not sure there are many people interested in it... if we see a lot of people interested then we might consider doing it.
I have been contacted more than once with questions about counters to Blue, from people that play multiplayer. This kind of test would be useful for that, revealing vulnerabilities that can either be exploited by others or fixed by the authors.
Anyway, I understand it's extra work for you guys, so I hope more people show interest to make this viable. =)
20 teams, each tactic with two teams, the same way as they make the other tests, with team A and team B. That way you have more matches played per tactic.
The benefit of this league would be to understand strengths and vulnerabilities of the tactics, allowing us to improve further. Is there any chance to make this happen, @Zippo?
I got some good results but again I don't know if its because of the tactics or the players.
Have you tested something like this ? I just moved the CM to AF nothing else... I was thinking about putting the DLP (defense) instead of Support.
IF someone wants to try it
Thank you for testing!
Your suggestion was tested last patch. Got a score good enough to win most titles, but not better than the top tactics.
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/946-zaz-blue-2-2-1pf-tweak/
If you want a tactic with real strikers, Fanatic is king.
I keep seeing in other threads that you guys refer to this link: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/ to understand which attributes are more important in each role, but all that i see in that page is an tactic "Phoenix v3.0" with different results... I mean, where can I see what is important for an DM, for example..
Below is the stats of Manchester City Best XI after a full season (holiday mode, ended with 106 points).
As you can see, DM does barely any dribbles and creates even less chances of goal. By the number of passes, you can understand it's essentialy a transition role. That means it doesn't need high values of dribbling. However, acceleration, pace and speed are still important, as they help you reach the ball before your opponent and get to positions that increase pass accuracy. On the other hand, they participate a lot in aerial attempts, so having good jumping reach could take them to new heights, literally.
It's in the openning post. Acceleration and pace are the main attributes. Use agility and dribbling (except for DC and DM) as tiebreaker.