Zippo said: We do a lot of internal testing to make sure our testing league is reliable.
We've got a tactic testing league where all the players have their Mental and Technical attributes around 11 - 13 so it's a very low level for the attributes.
We test all the tactics that come on top in that league too to make sure there's no significant different between that league and the main league and I can say we haven't been noticing any significant difference.
Also, we test all high rated tactics in the major real leagues in the game with the real players and the real teams to see whether there's any difference comparing to our main tactic testing league.
For example, here's our "fake" EPL ( we adjusted it to 76 matches ).
Expand
I meant more a league where mental and technical are around 8-10, but if you tested there and say there isn't much statistical difference, then I believe you. I didn't know those kind of tests were done under the hood. Good work!
We've collected a huge amount of data since the release of FM22 and it helped us to significantly improve our tactic testing league.
We analyzed the tactical settings of AI managers and determined which of them are most successful.
Here's an example how the tactical settings of AI managers look like ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ) :
We analyzed the formations across different leagues and determined the most successful of the them ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ):
We analyzed the roles and duties that the AI managers use and determined the most successful combinations ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ):
I can say that all that changes make a significant difference.
We haven't decided yet whether to start re-testing all the tactics for the current M.E. or wait for a new patch/M.E.
Tell us what you think we should do?
Cheers. Expand
First of all, thank you for all your hard work.
About your question, I don't think there is any need to test all tactics again. If you really want to test to not stay idle until next patch, I would advise to start testing the first tactic in table, then and all others with at least 93% of points per match (inside the margin of error of 7%).
Other than that, I would like to see tests in a similar league where all teams have CA lower than 100, to see how the tactics react in an environment where players have lower quality. I'm not talking about having one team with high CA and another with low CA, but having another league just like the one used here, with all teams having reduced CA.
Would this make sense? Im constantly receiving "complains" from a lot of players asking to have more strenght training Expand
That is fine, but I don't get why so much teamwork. One per week is enough to me. Saturday is also often match day.
Anyway, don't expect to develop players at that level. Players are too bad, your coaches suck and your training grounds are awful. By the time they get better, you should be in a higher division hiring better players.
Belmorn said: Long shots better passes to do easy tap ins working much better vs a lot of sidenetting in previous verions Crosses being seem really strong ( and thus corners as well ) Mentality system broken - very attacking by default gives best results while it should be a last resort when behind only pretty much Youth development "tweaked" / bugged Horrible regen faces ( although this wont be fixed until fm 23 for sure ) some mental stats important on paper but tests indicating they are a lot less important then they "should" - too much emphasis on physicals imo
Honestly atm Im considering going back to my longterm save of fm21 until some of these issues are fixed tbh Expand
Most of those points weren't very different in FM21, to be honest. =)
Grimlock said: obviously, the game is way more difficult this year Expand
I would say there are too many beautiful goals from right outside the area, with the ball hitting the post and going in. I guess they improved the accuracy of shots, because in last FM all strikers were blind.
MeGaMaN said: Definitely feels like all "plug and play" tactics are weaker on FM22 than previous iterations Expand
Top tactics from last year had 72% win rate in FM-Arena test. This year, top tactic has barely 60%. It's not about plug and play, but tactics in general are worse this year. Defenses are just too leaky at the moment, not because of the tactics, but the match engine itself.
Only played Orange ss very attacking / your training weeks with focus on quickness. Won CL, League, Cup, Supercup. This tactic is for strong teams def a blast. Never had any inbalance all season. Did a lot of switching between first and second squad. Neymar performed exceptionally well, same as messi, but also 16 yr old bitshiabu had a wonderful season. Highest wins were mid season vs Reims 10-1 followed by a win vs Nice 11-2. Thx for this awesome Tactic ZaZ! Expand
inspired said: I constantly concede longshots, is there any way to stop this? its like 90% of goals I concede.. Expand
I checked here multiple saves and most goals come from the penalty area. There are indeed around 25-30% of goals from right outside the area, so I'll check if that is a vulnerability that can be fixed. Meanwhile, you can try removing "stay wider" from defenders and making sure your defenders are fast enough to get in position to avoid opponent shots.
Joshua22 said: The tactic is great but I've dropped a lot of points late on in games.
Any recommendation on how to close out games, or even a different one of your tactics to use in the last 20 or so minutes to stop dropping points late on. Expand
You can do just like rince said. If you want to keep the same tactic, then you can slow down after you get some lead. For example, when you are winning by at least two goals, you can set everyone to ease off tackles, set slow pace down, reduce tempo and pressing intensity by one tick, and so on. That can help you reach the latest end of the match with a better performance.
cptdoggo said: There never will be any good tactic with purple or green intensity. This is still much less demanding than a Very Attacking tactic. I use this in my Athletic Club save and 10 stamina strikers can play 70-90min no prob with this tactic.
I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge Expand
I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a good tactic with purple mentality. Cyan, for example, got 5.3 with a low intensity setting. I'm quite sure with a bit of tweaking, it could get to 5.5+.
Milakus said: I agree, the goal difference matters a lot but the points isn't less important.
Let's say you won 3 matches with "Tactic number 1"
1 - 0 1 - 0 1 - 0
So after 3 matches the "Tactic number 1" has these stats: 9 points and +3 G.D.
But with "Tactic number 2" you won only 1 match of 3 matches
9 - 0 <--- "Tactic number 2" works amazingly well vs this AI tactic 0 - 1 <--- but "Tactic number 2" works badly vs this AI tactic 0 - 1 <--- but "Tactic number 2" works badly vs this AI tactic
So after 3 matches the "Tactic number 2" has these stats: 3 points and +7 G.D.
If you look at the points then "Tactic number 1" is better but if you look at the G.D. then "Tactic number 2" is better but which of them is truly better? I think it's "Tactic number 1" because it works well vs all the 3 AI tactics.
A tactic might have a very high G.D. but low points because it trashes badly some AI tactics but same time it loses vs other AI tactics.
I suggest to be careful with G.D, it isn't always the best indicator.
P.S. I don't say that G.D. should be ignored because it's a very good indicator but we need to understand that sometimes it can be tricky and the points is a more accurate indicator, especially, on a long run test. Expand
I agree, points per match is the most important stat, as it represents the win rate of the tactic. I only said goal difference is more important than goals scored or goals conceded. A tactic with 0.5 goals conceded per match can be awful, as well as a tactic that scores 5 goals per match, if the goal difference is still negative.
People need to keep in mind that any tactic from 6.0 to 5.7 or even 5.6 fall into the confidence level of FM-Arena tests, meaning any of them could actually be the best. I like to use GD as a tie breaker in those cases.
Doug said: Hi - great tactic - do you know if it is as effective when dropping to attacking or positive? very exposed defensively some away games so trying to figure those games out
thanks! Expand
If you change mentality, the performance will suffer. Orange SS might be exposed defensively, but it's by far the tactic with the highest goal difference in this patch. In the end, goal difference matters more than goals scored or conceded.
bohojui said: Hello, I'm using your tactics very well And I have a question... Is it better to keep STCL as a right-footed and STCR as a left-footed? Expand
Just make sure to point out it's a stolen tactic everytime you see someone talk about it in Discord servers, forums or other pages. Also, make sure to post a link to this.
We've got a tactic testing league where all the players have their Mental and Technical attributes around 11 - 13 so it's a very low level for the attributes.
We test all the tactics that come on top in that league too to make sure there's no significant different between that league and the main league and I can say we haven't been noticing any significant difference.
Also, we test all high rated tactics in the major real leagues in the game with the real players and the real teams to see whether there's any difference comparing to our main tactic testing league.
For example, here's our "fake" EPL ( we adjusted it to 76 matches ).
I meant more a league where mental and technical are around 8-10, but if you tested there and say there isn't much statistical difference, then I believe you. I didn't know those kind of tests were done under the hood. Good work!
That's when you blame the referee after the match and get a suspension.
That's FM for you!
We've collected a huge amount of data since the release of FM22 and it helped us to significantly improve our tactic testing league.
We analyzed the tactical settings of AI managers and determined which of them are most successful.
Here's an example how the tactical settings of AI managers look like ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ) :
We analyzed the formations across different leagues and determined the most successful of the them ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ):
We analyzed the roles and duties that the AI managers use and determined the most successful combinations ( it's just an example and there's nothing special in it ):
The attributes testing greatly helped us to understand how the attributes work in FM22 - https://fm-arena.com/table/13-fm22-attributes-ratings/
I can say that all that changes make a significant difference.
We haven't decided yet whether to start re-testing all the tactics for the current M.E. or wait for a new patch/M.E.
Tell us what you think we should do?
Cheers.
First of all, thank you for all your hard work.
About your question, I don't think there is any need to test all tactics again. If you really want to test to not stay idle until next patch, I would advise to start testing the first tactic in table, then and all others with at least 93% of points per match (inside the margin of error of 7%).
Other than that, I would like to see tests in a similar league where all teams have CA lower than 100, to see how the tactics react in an environment where players have lower quality. I'm not talking about having one team with high CA and another with low CA, but having another league just like the one used here, with all teams having reduced CA.
Would this make sense?
Im constantly receiving "complains" from a lot of players asking to have more strenght training
That is fine, but I don't get why so much teamwork. One per week is enough to me. Saturday is also often match day.
Anyway, don't expect to develop players at that level. Players are too bad, your coaches suck and your training grounds are awful. By the time they get better, you should be in a higher division hiring better players.
passes to do easy tap ins working much better vs a lot of sidenetting in previous verions
Crosses being seem really strong ( and thus corners as well )
Mentality system broken - very attacking by default gives best results while it should be a last resort when behind only pretty much
Youth development "tweaked" / bugged
Horrible regen faces ( although this wont be fixed until fm 23 for sure )
some mental stats important on paper but tests indicating they are a lot less important then they "should" - too much emphasis on physicals imo
Honestly atm Im considering going back to my longterm save of fm21 until some of these issues are fixed tbh
Most of those points weren't very different in FM21, to be honest. =)
I would say there are too many beautiful goals from right outside the area, with the ball hitting the post and going in. I guess they improved the accuracy of shots, because in last FM all strikers were blind.
Top tactics from last year had 72% win rate in FM-Arena test. This year, top tactic has barely 60%. It's not about plug and play, but tactics in general are worse this year. Defenses are just too leaky at the moment, not because of the tactics, but the match engine itself.
PSG first season.
Bought:
Mara
Singo
ibrahimovic
-45 m
sold:
Navas
Verrati
Bakker
Kehrer
+102 m
Only played Orange ss very attacking / your training weeks with focus on quickness. Won CL, League, Cup, Supercup. This tactic is for strong teams def a blast. Never had any inbalance all season. Did a lot of switching between first and second squad. Neymar performed exceptionally well, same as messi, but also 16 yr old bitshiabu had a wonderful season. Highest wins were mid season vs Reims 10-1 followed by a win vs Nice 11-2. Thx for this awesome Tactic ZaZ!
Thanks and congratulations!
I checked here multiple saves and most goals come from the penalty area. There are indeed around 25-30% of goals from right outside the area, so I'll check if that is a vulnerability that can be fixed. Meanwhile, you can try removing "stay wider" from defenders and making sure your defenders are fast enough to get in position to avoid opponent shots.
P.S.: Just looked at the tactic in the link, and there they show AF, but IWB instead. That's confusing.
Any recommendation on how to close out games, or even a different one of your tactics to use in the last 20 or so minutes to stop dropping points late on.
You can do just like rince said. If you want to keep the same tactic, then you can slow down after you get some lead. For example, when you are winning by at least two goals, you can set everyone to ease off tackles, set slow pace down, reduce tempo and pressing intensity by one tick, and so on. That can help you reach the latest end of the match with a better performance.
I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge
I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a good tactic with purple mentality. Cyan, for example, got 5.3 with a low intensity setting. I'm quite sure with a bit of tweaking, it could get to 5.5+.
Let's say you won 3 matches with "Tactic number 1"
1 - 0
1 - 0
1 - 0
So after 3 matches the "Tactic number 1" has these stats: 9 points and +3 G.D.
But with "Tactic number 2" you won only 1 match of 3 matches
9 - 0 <--- "Tactic number 2" works amazingly well vs this AI tactic
0 - 1 <--- but "Tactic number 2" works badly vs this AI tactic
0 - 1 <--- but "Tactic number 2" works badly vs this AI tactic
So after 3 matches the "Tactic number 2" has these stats: 3 points and +7 G.D.
If you look at the points then "Tactic number 1" is better but if you look at the G.D. then "Tactic number 2" is better but which of them is truly better? I think it's "Tactic number 1" because it works well vs all the 3 AI tactics.
A tactic might have a very high G.D. but low points because it trashes badly some AI tactics but same time it loses vs other AI tactics.
I suggest to be careful with G.D, it isn't always the best indicator.
P.S. I don't say that G.D. should be ignored because it's a very good indicator but we need to understand that sometimes it can be tricky and the points is a more accurate indicator, especially, on a long run test.
I agree, points per match is the most important stat, as it represents the win rate of the tactic. I only said goal difference is more important than goals scored or goals conceded. A tactic with 0.5 goals conceded per match can be awful, as well as a tactic that scores 5 goals per match, if the goal difference is still negative.
People need to keep in mind that any tactic from 6.0 to 5.7 or even 5.6 fall into the confidence level of FM-Arena tests, meaning any of them could actually be the best. I like to use GD as a tie breaker in those cases.
thanks!
If you change mentality, the performance will suffer. Orange SS might be exposed defensively, but it's by far the tactic with the highest goal difference in this patch. In the end, goal difference matters more than goals scored or conceded.
And I have a question...
Is it better to keep STCL as a right-footed and STCR as a left-footed?
Same foot as side.