pixar said: @ZaZ Good to see you back, man. Welcome back to the community. I really couldn't find a good set piece in FM26. Could you share your results from your tests? For example, how many goals did your team score in the league from corners or free kicks? Expand
Thank you! Results depend a lot on the team, because of the characteristic of the players. Keep in mind I tested with teams predicted for middle of the table and last place (Like Nottingham Forest and Burnley). For corners, results range from 10-15, and indirect free kicks were 5-6 per season. Some cases got like 20 corner goals and 10 indirect free kicks, but those are outliers (however, pretty achievable for teams with better players).
Sanfierro said: By the way, a bug from the FM 2005 era just came to my mind and I wanted to mention it because i think it's related to the topic.
In FM 2005, when the match kicked off, if you clicked on the “overview” panel and checked the fixture, you could actually see the final score of the match before it ended. And when the match finished, it always ended with exactly the score shown there. This shows that the score is determined the moment the match kicks off.
They fixed it quickly with a patch, but since Steam wasn’t really popular back then, updates didn’t reach everyone instantly like they do today. So I remember playing with that bug for quite a long time.
I’m not even sure much has changed since then. Not being sure is the scary part. We should be sure about this after 20 years, but SI just doesn't work that way. jesus christ man, SI should’ve gone bankrupt decades ago. They’ve been putting us on this shitshow for 20 years. Thankfully, with FM 26 this whole show is finally over, and at this point waiting for moves from competitor studios makes more sense than waiting for FM 27 tbh. Expand
Results are not determined at the start of the match. That is pretty easy to check, you can simply start with a very bad tactic, then change to a very good one after 5 or 10 minutes, and result will be consistent with the good tactic.
max 737 said: Can anyone explain how does one tactic which has worked so well on one save completely stops work on a new save? Expand
Even the best tactics go on blackout every now and then, sometimes staying five or more matches without winning. What matters is that they recover and go back to overachieving.
Kaczy said: Would you be so nice and upload save energy variant?
I am quite deep in my save advancing from 7th tier to PL and what i have notice that prefer leg is important at least for WBs. I was using simular tactic and when i played left WB right footed he have much less assists compering to left footed. I do not see diference in case of BCB but common sense is telling me that left BCB should play left foot , right BCB should play right foot and central BCB should play both legs - i dont know if this have impact in game at all. Wingers in my opinion should be right footed on left and left footed on right since in many cases they cut into penalty area to middle and shoot. But from other hand their passes and crosses into penalty area would be worst - i will try to test this in incoming seson. Expand
Kaczy said: Great work as always @ZaZ i will post results after first seson in PL after i advanced from CH - playing FC United of Manchester so it gonna be fun
Questions :
1.Do you guys change your mentality depending when you are playing away or you are underdog?
2.Do you guys using some less intesive versions when you are leading or more defensive when you want to protec result? Or are you changing mentality in this case?
3.BCB - better leg dosent matter? Or that on right should have better right leg and same on left?
4.WB - same question ?
5. Wingers - same question?
BR Expand
I have a variant to use when I am winning by a safe margin, to save energy and avoid cards. I will test different mentalities to see if any is worth using to concede less goals.
About leg, I don't see much difference in any position. Someone made a post recently saying it does, though.
max 737 said: @ZaZ Last question, do you recommend Winter or Autumn playing with Arsenal against say a side like Liverpool also changing a tactic all of a sudden would it hamper the familiarity? Expand
I think Autumn would perform better, but this is just a wild guess. About changing tactics, they do affect familiarity, but I am not sure how much that affects results. Keep in mind familiarity is broken down in several pieces, and most of them would be kept maximum even if you change from Winter to Autumn, because most team instructions are the same.
mikaty said: I have tested this tactic in 3 different saves Expand
But don't expect the testing server is working at its full capacity at the begging.
We're planning to start at slow pace to be sure that everything works as intended and polish things.
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestion.
But to be honest right now at the begging we aren't looking to do something fancy, we are focused just on on bringing the basic functionally up and running, then at some point later we can consider bringing something more robust and fancy. Expand
Fair, I was just giving an idea for the future. The top priority should be to start.
Consider implementing the possibility to filter results against different formations. For example, if the test league has opponents using 10 different tactics, and 6k matches are played, then you could allow people to see the results of 600 matches against each tactic. This would allow people to plan better against different scenarios, especially against other players, or against the strongest teams of their league.
max 737 said: @ZaZ Just see what I have been able to achieve with your tactic and yes I played with your set pieces today. How do the set pieces affect or rather improve the tactic in itself any idea? Expand
There are two types of set pieces, the scoring opportunities, and the transitional stops (when the match is interrupted without a clear chance to score). The first type of set piece improve tactics by increasing chance to score or reducing chance to concede. The transitional stops, on the other hand, are a challenge to keep possession and an opportunity to move to more advantageous parts of the field, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve there.
All that said, both defending and attacking set pieces also affect counter attack chances after those events, so having more players or less players advanced when you are defending can increase your chances to score if you defend with success.
In my personal experiments with Autumn 0.2 and Winter 0.2, it improved a lot the goals scored and points per match, but didn't change significantly the goals conceded. I am not sure if it didn't improve defense because we are talking only about six or seven goals per season (so reducing one or two wouldn't make much of a difference), or if it was because scoring more goals make the team relax and concede more during match (usually happens when you have a larger lead), outweighing the gains from better defensive set pieces.
Panneton0 said: I might not have been clear. I am fully aware that attributes have their strenghts and that this is all a multi-variable problem. The question is whether the ME makes micro-computations "on the spot" with true complex interactions between attributes or if it is only a render of more macro-computations that only ponderates "success" with main attributes.
In other words, is it true that "high pace = best decisions" or is the huge success of pace more an indicator that ME does not make "decisions" and "vision" shine enough during the play-by-play computations. Expand
High pace is not about decisions, it is about performing well even when players make bad decisions. A pass that goes too far can still be recovered simply because the player moves faster than the opponent, or a character that takes too long to anticipate can still intercept the ball simply because he moves like an arrow. That's what makes mobility attributes so strong, because they make bad decisions into good decisions.
Yarema said: I think you are approaching the question from the wrong direction. Every single game has a meta = strategy or decisions that produce the best result. Doesn't matter if it's tic tac toe or something more complex like chess or FM. So for any given set of conditions there is an optimal solution, whether we find it or not and how close we get is kind of irrelevant.
The way (computer) games tend to solve this issue is by making slight changes, buffs and nerfs if you will, that force players to adapt and switch the strategy. Where SI fell short is that they simply didn't or couldn't adjust this complex ME enough for it to make a significant difference - or maybe they did at a secondary attributes level, but physicals have always been king for more than 2 decades now. If you can't tackle you can just outsprint and outmuscle someone for example. Another thing in favor of physicals is that they are not affected by consistency unlike the other categories. I don't expect any more huge changes in attribute strength this FM, they already did more than I expected but we can hope.
Fairly sure attributes have been tested in other tactical systems and produced similar results. Expand
Just some additional input, problems with multiple variables and objectives often have multiple solutions that are not comparable to each other. In case of Football Manager, you could have three tactics in which A > B > C > A. Some tactic could also have higher influence of player attributes than another, or some tactic could be better suited for a match where you just need to hold a score, without worrying about building advantage.
I have been testing set pieces, and these got me the best results so far. However, it is pretty hard to test set pieces effectively, so I would appreciate if others could test and share results, and maybe how they compare to other set pieces. Let me know how it worked for you!
Cresudian said: Hi, nice job as usual with these tactics. I am using Automn and Winter based on the opponent and the results are very very good. did you work also on any schedule training? I am still using the ones you recommended for fm24 and the results are so so so if you or anybody have anything to share, you are more than welcome. Thanks again for your amazing work Expand
Thank you! And sorry, I didn't test any training yet. I just finished my first experiments with Set Pieces, so maybe I will move to training next.
In my experience, it didn't work so well with Como. I played (managed) 7 games with 5 losses and 2 draws. After that, I decided to simulate the entire season. At least, I keep the category.
However, I believe with the right players, this tactic could achieve amazing things! Thanks for sharing Expand
Thank you!
Results depend a lot on the team, because of the characteristic of the players. Keep in mind I tested with teams predicted for middle of the table and last place (Like Nottingham Forest and Burnley). For corners, results range from 10-15, and indirect free kicks were 5-6 per season. Some cases got like 20 corner goals and 10 indirect free kicks, but those are outliers (however, pretty achievable for teams with better players).
In FM 2005, when the match kicked off, if you clicked on the “overview” panel and checked the fixture, you could actually see the final score of the match before it ended. And when the match finished, it always ended with exactly the score shown there. This shows that the score is determined the moment the match kicks off.
They fixed it quickly with a patch, but since Steam wasn’t really popular back then, updates didn’t reach everyone instantly like they do today. So I remember playing with that bug for quite a long time.
I’m not even sure much has changed since then. Not being sure is the scary part. We should be sure about this after 20 years, but SI just doesn't work that way.
jesus christ man, SI should’ve gone bankrupt decades ago. They’ve been putting us on this shitshow for 20 years. Thankfully, with FM 26 this whole show is finally over, and at this point waiting for moves from competitor studios makes more sense than waiting for FM 27 tbh.
Results are not determined at the start of the match. That is pretty easy to check, you can simply start with a very bad tactic, then change to a very good one after 5 or 10 minutes, and result will be consistent with the good tactic.
I added screenshots to the second post.
Glad you like it! I will add the set pieces to the first post, it makes both tactics much better.
Even the best tactics go on blackout every now and then, sometimes staying five or more matches without winning. What matters is that they recover and go back to overachieving.
I am quite deep in my save advancing from 7th tier to PL and what i have notice that prefer leg is important at least for WBs. I was using simular tactic and when i played left WB right footed he have much less assists compering to left footed.
I do not see diference in case of BCB but common sense is telling me that left BCB should play left foot , right BCB should play right foot and central BCB should play both legs - i dont know if this have impact in game at all.
Wingers in my opinion should be right footed on left and left footed on right since in many cases they cut into penalty area to middle and shoot. But from other hand their passes and crosses into penalty area would be worst - i will try to test this in incoming seson.
I will add to the first message of the post.
Questions :
1.Do you guys change your mentality depending when you are playing away or you are underdog?
2.Do you guys using some less intesive versions when you are leading or more defensive when you want to protec result? Or are you changing mentality in this case?
3.BCB - better leg dosent matter? Or that on right should have better right leg and same on left?
4.WB - same question ?
5. Wingers - same question?
BR
I have a variant to use when I am winning by a safe margin, to save energy and avoid cards. I will test different mentalities to see if any is worth using to concede less goals.
About leg, I don't see much difference in any position. Someone made a post recently saying it does, though.
I think Autumn would perform better, but this is just a wild guess. About changing tactics, they do affect familiarity, but I am not sure how much that affects results. Keep in mind familiarity is broken down in several pieces, and most of them would be kept maximum even if you change from Winter to Autumn, because most team instructions are the same.
mikaty said: I have tested this tactic in 3 different saves
How did it go?
Sure, it's also coming.
But don't expect the testing server is working at its full capacity at the begging.
We're planning to start at slow pace to be sure that everything works as intended and polish things.
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestion.
But to be honest right now at the begging we aren't looking to do something fancy, we are focused just on on bringing the basic functionally up and running, then at some point later we can consider bringing something more robust and fancy.
Fair, I was just giving an idea for the future. The top priority should be to start.
There are two types of set pieces, the scoring opportunities, and the transitional stops (when the match is interrupted without a clear chance to score). The first type of set piece improve tactics by increasing chance to score or reducing chance to concede. The transitional stops, on the other hand, are a challenge to keep possession and an opportunity to move to more advantageous parts of the field, so it depends on what you are trying to achieve there.
All that said, both defending and attacking set pieces also affect counter attack chances after those events, so having more players or less players advanced when you are defending can increase your chances to score if you defend with success.
Gets even better with the set pieces.
In other words, is it true that "high pace = best decisions" or is the huge success of pace more an indicator that ME does not make "decisions" and "vision" shine enough during the play-by-play computations.
High pace is not about decisions, it is about performing well even when players make bad decisions. A pass that goes too far can still be recovered simply because the player moves faster than the opponent, or a character that takes too long to anticipate can still intercept the ball simply because he moves like an arrow. That's what makes mobility attributes so strong, because they make bad decisions into good decisions.
The way (computer) games tend to solve this issue is by making slight changes, buffs and nerfs if you will, that force players to adapt and switch the strategy. Where SI fell short is that they simply didn't or couldn't adjust this complex ME enough for it to make a significant difference - or maybe they did at a secondary attributes level, but physicals have always been king for more than 2 decades now. If you can't tackle you can just outsprint and outmuscle someone for example. Another thing in favor of physicals is that they are not affected by consistency unlike the other categories.
I don't expect any more huge changes in attribute strength this FM, they already did more than I expected but we can hope.
Fairly sure attributes have been tested in other tactical systems and produced similar results.
Just some additional input, problems with multiple variables and objectives often have multiple solutions that are not comparable to each other. In case of Football Manager, you could have three tactics in which A > B > C > A. Some tactic could also have higher influence of player attributes than another, or some tactic could be better suited for a match where you just need to hold a score, without worrying about building advantage.
Throw-Ins are set to Retain Possession and Work Into Box
nice job as usual with these tactics.
I am using Automn and Winter based on the opponent and the results are very very good.
did you work also on any schedule training?
I am still using the ones you recommended for fm24 and the results are so so
so if you or anybody have anything to share, you are more than welcome.
Thanks again for your amazing work
Thank you! And sorry, I didn't test any training yet. I just finished my first experiments with Set Pieces, so maybe I will move to training next.
Thank you for testing, and glad it is working well!
In my experience, it didn't work so well with Como. I played (managed) 7 games with 5 losses and 2 draws. After that, I decided to simulate the entire season. At least, I keep the category.
However, I believe with the right players, this tactic could achieve amazing things!
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for testing!