saycarramrod said: @Mark@ZaZ Have either of you looked at the Genie Role ratings while using either of your rating files? Seems that it DOES change the underlying positional ratings you have modified, while also giving additional percentage points to the critical role attributes. Just wondering if that helps to even further differentiate better players, although I understand ZaZ's point of "wasting" CA on useless attributes. Expand
I'm not sure what you mean. Our files are genie role ratings. If I remember well, Mark's version considers the standard ratings of FM Genie Scout in his calculations.
FMAddict said: Hi ZaZ. Using this tactic for the past 3 ingame seasons now, works wonders with an average team in the league.
I have 2 questions: 1. My strikers seem to score a very low amount of goals, 16 goals in 40 games seems a bit low. They aren't the best strikers I could have however and I was wondering if there is any particular attribute you look for in a striker to be successful. 2. I see you covered the training schedules for 1,2 MPW and preseason. My question is, for example if you have 2 away games in a week you lose the Defensive Shape training for that week because travel is placed instead of it. Is that ok? And another thing is how would you structure the schedule for a week in which the matches are Wed - Sun or Thu - Sat or any of that variation. I have these 2 schedules that tackle this particular question, would you consider this approach ok for this point?
I have also removed the Tackle Harder instruction from most of the roles because I was getting too many yellow cards. I have seen a decrease in yellow cards received by about 30% over the past 2 seasons and the results have not decreased whatsoever. Expand
1. In this tactic, goals are evenly distributed between the three strikers (counting the shadow strikers). 20 goals for each is pretty normal. It's not like other tactics that have a single striker scoring most goals, so you will probably not win the golden boot.
2. I will check into that, but if you have travel before the game, just remove team bonding for the week, or quickness training if you want to save more energy.
About your variation, you only need one teamwork, defensive positioning and attacking movement before each match. In you wed-sun training, you are doing two teamworks in a row, but their match bonus don't stack (as far as I know). You can remove teamwork from thursday and add quickness or match practice instead (or another recovery if your players are too tired).
CBP87 said: I get your points but I'm sorry I don't agree with the only thing that counts is the score from the test. If he had stated in the OP that he had used the editor then fair enough but he didn't and in a way to me that is a way of trying to con us that the tactic is better than what it actually is. All I was asking is why he had saved the game an excessive number of times and he became defensive and abusive. I was actually trying to help him by asking him about the excessive saving as people were showing that he had potentially cheated.
One thing I don't like is people misleading others, whether you see it as wrong or right or the fact that the only thing that is relevant is the test results. We should be honest about our own testing Expand
Well, everyone has a different way to show results here. Some people post holiday tests, some people test with lower leagues, some people test with a godly team in 2026 while others just play normaly and show how their season is going. Maybe he used saves to backtrack in case of bad luck, or maybe he just saves a lot since he says he doesn't have much time. I don't see all this witch hunt in other posts with deceiving results, it's borderline bullying.
Zippo said: Sure, on the next patch we'll test it instead of the RPM version.
Btw, we've gathered enough data to conclude that some other changes like Wingers(S) -> Defensive Wingers(S) or Box To Box (S) -> Central Midfielders (S) make a smaller difference than the RNG even after 6 runs ( 912 matches ).
Even the difference between Vol(A) and RMP(S) is hardly can be caught on 6 runs ( 912 matches ). Expand
Thanks for the info! It would be nice if you guys could make a thread to share those info based on data.
Main reason for me to create this was to have a hub of information with the frequently asked questions, specially because of console players asking me to show screenshots of set pieces and instructions. I could technicaly have done that in the old thread, but now it's too late. =)
Zippo said: If DLP instead of RPM is the only difference then there's no point in testing it because the RNG is bigger than that change even after 6 runs. Expand
Basically, DLP instead of RPM, but I wanted to create a thread with more information to prepare for next patches. It might not be tested for 22.2, but it could get a test on 22.3 instead of Blue DM. In my tests, this one is better.
I think this is a pointless discussion. It's pretty irrelevant if he saved or not before matches for his screenshot, the only thing that counts for score is the test on FM-Arena. I have lost account of how many people come with titles like "won all trophies", "unbeatable in 300 matches", "999 goals", "best tactic in fm22" or so on, and in the end they are just average tactics, but no one complains.
RPM and DLP play very differently. The former roams around and is often seen close to the area, while the later usually holds position so you are always covered and always have an option for passing. They can both work well, like we had Afterlife and Blue in FM21.
I'm currently testing this version. I would really appreciate if anyone could test it and give me feedback. It seems better than Blue DM for my test league.
Mnj said: Thank you ZaZ and Mark for all your work! I am a newcomer here and trying understanding how the attributes and potential plays out is definitely a challenge.
I already downloaded Mark's filter and I would like to compare them with yours ZaZ but the WeTransfer link expired I would be very grateful if you could upload it again. I am playing mostly in lower league so it may be better to find cheap players.
I was also wondering if you guys ever tried playing with negative percentages in the Genie rating for the expensive attributes with little effects? I vaguely remember that negative percentages worked in previous versions but I am not sure. Expand
About negative values, I've used to a couple of attributes, like injury proneness. I was thinking about using it for undesired attributes, but then it would be a metric for player potential, and not for player general ability.
Do you have any idea when you'll be posting new tactics, specifically targeted for the new patch? ZaZ Blue DM is a great tactic, but I can't like 442 diamond.
Cheers! Expand
I am currently trying to give defensive stability to Blue. The version I am playing is similar to Blue DM, but has IWB-Su, DLP-Su and SK-Su. For now, it seems more balanced, but I am working around the SS and strikers to see if I make the attacking movements more consistent.
CBP87 said: No defense is needed as I'm not saying your spamming tactics, The author of the this thread is pretty much saying all other tacticians throw out a load of tactics in the hope one works. I think that is very unfair on other tacticians and I was merely pointing out to the author that you've produced a lot of tactics too Expand
I think it's cool that people try their tactic in the game, get good results and come here to share their masterpiece. Sometimes it's just a tweak of someone's else tactic, while other times they bring very unique stuff. Some people try to shape their own view of football, while others try to simulate the tactics of legendary teams. It's all valid. Even when results are awful, they still have some value showing us what doesn't work well in FM22.
The only thing that annoys people is when someone brings a tactic very similar to Revelation, for example, with FB-At changed to IWB-At, then post it as something unique with a fancy name and description instead of saying it's a tweak of Zealot's tactic, or at least giving credits for the inspiration.
DoubleR said: Haha I was just joking, but that was obviously what happened on the other forums he was on. Obviously don't believe you would be TFF! ;-) Expand
Also, I don't see why I would hide if I was TFF. I mean, the guy is a legend.
I have only registered to say thank you to ZAZ, the master of puppets! I don't know how you do it, but you trumped all other tacticians in FM 21, and it seems you are going to do the same this year. Well, tacticians is too much said in the case of your opponents, most of them just throw multiple tactics on the market and hope one works out.
Good luck, and thanks again!
PS: Waiting for a tactic that has at least 0.5 better ratings than everyone else! Cheers Expand
Haha, thank you so much! As I always say, I'm not anything special, I just tested a lot of different stuff so I kinda got an idea of what works and what doesn't. Even though, sometimes I create bad tactics while others do better than mine.
CBP87 said: Make's no sense, yes ZaZ is a very good tactician but he has also released 15 tactics this year so to say every one just throws tactics out there is a bit contradictory Expand
In my "defense", that was the first week after release, so I tried very different tactics to see what direction was good. For example, Cyan has low tempo, purple has three wingers in each side, orange is all out attack, blue is balanced, and so on. Each of them has their own traits.
I don't think anyone minds people spamming tactics, they just don't want people to spam very similar tweaks of the same tactic, as if the author is trying to use a brute force algorithm.
Metal said: I didn't know there was a market to throw tactics on! Where do I sign up so I get paid to sell tactics on this market? Expand
Patreon could be used for that, I just doubt anyone would pay for it.
DoubleR said: If he was really TFF i would have expected a lot of other accounts controlled by him also stating he really isn't TFF.
;-------------) Expand I'm pretty sure the mods can see who uses the same IP and even what location they connect from, so they could easily ban any account from the same user.
I'm not sure what you mean. Our files are genie role ratings. If I remember well, Mark's version considers the standard ratings of FM Genie Scout in his calculations.
I have 2 questions:
1. My strikers seem to score a very low amount of goals, 16 goals in 40 games seems a bit low. They aren't the best strikers I could have however and I was wondering if there is any particular attribute you look for in a striker to be successful.
2. I see you covered the training schedules for 1,2 MPW and preseason. My question is, for example if you have 2 away games in a week you lose the Defensive Shape training for that week because travel is placed instead of it. Is that ok? And another thing is how would you structure the schedule for a week in which the matches are Wed - Sun or Thu - Sat or any of that variation. I have these 2 schedules that tackle this particular question, would you consider this approach ok for this point?
I have also removed the Tackle Harder instruction from most of the roles because I was getting too many yellow cards. I have seen a decrease in yellow cards received by about 30% over the past 2 seasons and the results have not decreased whatsoever.
1. In this tactic, goals are evenly distributed between the three strikers (counting the shadow strikers). 20 goals for each is pretty normal. It's not like other tactics that have a single striker scoring most goals, so you will probably not win the golden boot.
2. I will check into that, but if you have travel before the game, just remove team bonding for the week, or quickness training if you want to save more energy.
About your variation, you only need one teamwork, defensive positioning and attacking movement before each match. In you wed-sun training, you are doing two teamworks in a row, but their match bonus don't stack (as far as I know). You can remove teamwork from thursday and add quickness or match practice instead (or another recovery if your players are too tired).
One thing I don't like is people misleading others, whether you see it as wrong or right or the fact that the only thing that is relevant is the test results. We should be honest about our own testing
Well, everyone has a different way to show results here. Some people post holiday tests, some people test with lower leagues, some people test with a godly team in 2026 while others just play normaly and show how their season is going. Maybe he used saves to backtrack in case of bad luck, or maybe he just saves a lot since he says he doesn't have much time. I don't see all this witch hunt in other posts with deceiving results, it's borderline bullying.
Btw, we've gathered enough data to conclude that some other changes like Wingers(S) -> Defensive Wingers(S) or Box To Box (S) -> Central Midfielders (S) make a smaller difference than the RNG even after 6 runs ( 912 matches ).
Even the difference between Vol(A) and RMP(S) is hardly can be caught on 6 runs ( 912 matches ).
Thanks for the info! It would be nice if you guys could make a thread to share those info based on data.
Main reason for me to create this was to have a hub of information with the frequently asked questions, specially because of console players asking me to show screenshots of set pieces and instructions. I could technicaly have done that in the old thread, but now it's too late. =)
Do this instead of RPM on next patch, please.
Basically, DLP instead of RPM, but I wanted to create a thread with more information to prepare for next patches. It might not be tested for 22.2, but it could get a test on 22.3 instead of Blue DM. In my tests, this one is better.
I already downloaded Mark's filter and I would like to compare them with yours ZaZ but the WeTransfer link expired I would be very grateful if you could upload it again. I am playing mostly in lower league so it may be better to find cheap players.
I was also wondering if you guys ever tried playing with negative percentages in the Genie rating for the expensive attributes with little effects? I vaguely remember that negative percentages worked in previous versions but I am not sure.
New link here.
About negative values, I've used to a couple of attributes, like injury proneness. I was thinking about using it for undesired attributes, but then it would be a metric for player potential, and not for player general ability.
4.2 is not so bad. I would say anything close to 4 or 4.5 is the average of this match engine, for this testing database.
You can even filter by formation.
This one got the best results in FM-Arena. There are others being tested, but I can't say if they are better or worse yet.
Bogeyman said: I think ZaZ Blue DM fits Juve perfectly, I had a great season with them.
Thanks for testing!
ta2199 said: Some result:
When defend the shape is 4-4-2
When attack is 4-2-2-2.
Gonna put it to run now. (P.S.: Worse results than normal.)
This one got the best results in FM-Arena. There are others being tested, but I can't say if they are better or worse yet.
Do you have any idea when you'll be posting new tactics, specifically targeted for the new patch? ZaZ Blue DM is a great tactic, but I can't like 442 diamond.
Cheers!
I am currently trying to give defensive stability to Blue. The version I am playing is similar to Blue DM, but has IWB-Su, DLP-Su and SK-Su. For now, it seems more balanced, but I am working around the SS and strikers to see if I make the attacking movements more consistent.
I think it's cool that people try their tactic in the game, get good results and come here to share their masterpiece. Sometimes it's just a tweak of someone's else tactic, while other times they bring very unique stuff. Some people try to shape their own view of football, while others try to simulate the tactics of legendary teams. It's all valid. Even when results are awful, they still have some value showing us what doesn't work well in FM22.
The only thing that annoys people is when someone brings a tactic very similar to Revelation, for example, with FB-At changed to IWB-At, then post it as something unique with a fancy name and description instead of saying it's a tweak of Zealot's tactic, or at least giving credits for the inspiration.
Also, I don't see why I would hide if I was TFF. I mean, the guy is a legend.
I have only registered to say thank you to ZAZ, the master of puppets! I don't know how you do it, but you trumped all other tacticians in FM 21, and it seems you are going to do the same this year. Well, tacticians is too much said in the case of your opponents, most of them just throw multiple tactics on the market and hope one works out.
Good luck, and thanks again!
PS: Waiting for a tactic that has at least 0.5 better ratings than everyone else! Cheers
Haha, thank you so much! As I always say, I'm not anything special, I just tested a lot of different stuff so I kinda got an idea of what works and what doesn't. Even though, sometimes I create bad tactics while others do better than mine.
CBP87 said: Make's no sense, yes ZaZ is a very good tactician but he has also released 15 tactics this year so to say every one just throws tactics out there is a bit contradictory
In my "defense", that was the first week after release, so I tried very different tactics to see what direction was good. For example, Cyan has low tempo, purple has three wingers in each side, orange is all out attack, blue is balanced, and so on. Each of them has their own traits.
I don't think anyone minds people spamming tactics, they just don't want people to spam very similar tweaks of the same tactic, as if the author is trying to use a brute force algorithm.
Metal said: I didn't know there was a market to throw tactics on! Where do I sign up so I get paid to sell tactics on this market?
Patreon could be used for that, I just doubt anyone would pay for it.
Metal said: Are you calling ZAZ a ho?
Hos before bros! Wait, it's the other way around.
;-------------)
I'm pretty sure the mods can see who uses the same IP and even what location they connect from, so they could easily ban any account from the same user.